FPJ vs Rolex

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by dakkonmc

From a Rarity perspective, I think you're spot on.

I'll change my example to 675 LT Coupe.

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Aren’t u comparing apples to oranges from performance standpoint??? Are u saying there is such a gap in performance between Rolex vs FPJ??? Rolex is the most vertically integrated manufacturer manufacturing every component to the highest standard in the industry. From mainspring to escapement mechanism to case work to dials and so on.

A more fair comparison would be Carrera (and plenty of variants to choose from) vs say McLaren. Now how do u choose? Maybe that is more fair? Actually it is perfect. Rolex is a Porsche of watch world. Now how do u look at this?

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by ILoveFerrari

Don't rush. It's a learning process. Just be open minded. Study resonance first.

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Thx for the advice

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by swish77

In the end, it’s all about how it looks on the wrist. I don’t care how well they’re finished, I find many FBJs way too fussy. Same way I can’t stand eating at haute cuisine restaurants. If I’m going to go upscale I’d much rather go VC or Patek.

Rolex finishing is great for what it is (which is obviously not on the same level as FBJ), and many of them are super handsome to wear.

I think you hit it right on with food analogy. Whether someone like to eat at McDonald or Alinea is completely personal. And depending on the occasion and budget, there are days which MCD may be preferred over a fancy dinner. However, one cannot confused that both are food served and are basically made the same way.

BTW, going to PP/VC for finishing may not be the best choice. There are independents like Voutilainen or ADC which offer simple and classic design with high end finishing. FPJ is not focused on finishing but still offer mostly hand finished product, just not at the highest level.

Rolex on the other hand has no hand finishing and people are still puzzled at why the new Daytona has a sapphire case back.

[dakkonmc]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Aren’t u comparing apples to oranges from performance standpoint??? Are u saying there is such a gap in performance between Rolex vs FPJ??? Rolex is the most vertically integrated manufacturer manufacturing every component to the highest standard in the industry. From mainspring to escapement mechanism to case work to dials and so on.

A more fair comparison would be Carrera (and plenty of variants to choose from) vs say McLaren. Now how do u choose? Maybe that is more fair? Actually it is perfect. Rolex is a Porsche of watch world. Now how do u look at this?

That is precisely my point. It is absolutely comparing apples to oranges. The analogy I utilized, I think is fairly reasonable.

The BMW 2 Series is a more useable car and most likely to have better reliability. 675 LT or a 812 CA is at a completely different level as a second car. 675 LT would not be that pleasant to drive in traffic or if you're trying to make u-turn

I don't think Porsche or a 911 is a good comparison for Rolex. ALS is a better comparison to a Porsche. Classic design,
Relatively reliable, and beautifully executed.

By the way, this is not a knock on BMW or Rolex. I have had many BMW over the years. I think Rolex has fantastic reliability, and it's a great daily. The FPJ resonance is at a completely different level.

I would suggest if you were to look into other watch brands and look at the finishing and designs they offer.

Here's a few brands I would look into
- ALS
- JLC ( especially duometre)
- H moser
- Glashutte original

Most on this list offers great value on the secondary market.


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[llngoc]

Originally Posted by dakkonmc

That is precisely my point. It is absolutely comparing apples to oranges. The analogy I utilized, I think is fairly reasonable.

The BMW 2 Series is a more useable car and most likely to have better reliability. 675 LT or a 812 CA is at a completely different level as a second car. 675 LT would not be that pleasant to drive in traffic or if you're trying to make u-turn

I don't think Porsche or a 911 is a good comparison for Rolex. ALS is a better comparison to a Porsche. Classic design,
Relatively reliable, and beautifully executed.

By the way, this is not a knock on BMW or Rolex. I have had many BMW over the years. I think Rolex has fantastic reliability, and it's a great daily. The FPJ resonance is at a completely different level.

I would suggest if you were to look into other watch brands and look at the finishing and designs they offer.

Here's a few brands I would look into
- ALS
- JLC ( especially duometre)
- H moser
- Glashutte original

Most on this list offers great value on the secondary market.


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I would add Breguet Traditionelle to the list too. Very good value in the secondary market and with better craftsmanship than most PP at fraction of the price.

Rolex is a tool watch and a very good one at it. If we want to use a car analogy, it would be a Toyota Tacoma. A FPJ will be more akin to an Aston Martin. They are both good but apples to oranges. Both of them can exist in the same “garage”.

[dakkonmc]

Originally Posted by llngoc

I think you hit it right on with food analogy. Whether someone like to eat at McDonald or Alinea is completely personal. And depending on the occasion and budget, there are days which MCD may be preferred over a fancy dinner. However, one cannot confused that both are food served and are basically made the same way.

That's a great analogy. Especially as someone who prefer McDonald's to 3 hours of dining experience.

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[dakkonmc]

Parmigiani is another interesting brand to look at
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[dakkonmc]

Originally Posted by dakkonmc

That's a great analogy. Especially as someone who prefers McDonald's to 3 hours of dining experience.

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[codecow]

If you don’t know the difference between a Rolex and a FPJ, go to a boutique where you can examine a FPJ and flip it over and look at the movement.

Look at a piece like a SONNERIE SOUVERAINE. I had the chance to handle FPJ’s directly off his wrist.

The company is his vision, it’s the art and design of one man.

Rolex? Its nameless and faceless.

[ILoveFerrari]

Originally Posted by rockdrock

I do love FPJ soooo much and in the indie space, FPJ is the Rolex of that space. It is all relative.

In the indie world, FPJ creates approximately 900 pieces a year. Rolex is on the way to 1.5 million a year with goal of 2 million I. Near future.

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[ILoveFerrari]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Aren’t u comparing apples to oranges from performance standpoint??? Are u saying there is such a gap in performance between Rolex vs FPJ??? Rolex is the most vertically integrated manufacturer manufacturing every component to the highest standard in the industry. From mainspring to escapement mechanism to case work to dials and so on.

A more fair comparison would be Carrera (and plenty of variants to choose from) vs say McLaren. Now how do u choose? Maybe that is more fair? Actually it is perfect. Rolex is a Porsche of watch world. Now how do u look at this?

Rolex can be considered as a Mercedes, not Porsche. Mass produced. Luxury to most but you can ride in it via Uber.

Porsche is a unique presence in automobile enthusiast world for it sell Macan and Cayenne while some of its GT cars are collected by other serious marquee owners.

I am not a car snob and I am not a watch snob. We don't put down GT2RS just because we have other brands, but when one says GT2RS with a turbo engine with GPF on will sound better than a GT3 or a Ferrari NA V8 engine, yes someone will chuckle.

Yes, when you say Rolex manufacturer their 1 millions watches to the highest standards there ever are in the watch industry, the responses you get in this thread indeed is the reality you are asking for.

You should appreciate Rolex for what it is as well as FP Journe for what it is. Then you will have a lot more fun collecting watches. There is a thread on Ferrarichat where Ferrari owners showing their watches. Many Rolexes, many AP, but only a few FPJ.





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[ILoveFerrari]

Originally Posted by llngoc

I think you hit it right on with food analogy. Whether someone like to eat at McDonald or Alinea is completely personal. And depending on the occasion and budget, there are days which MCD may be preferred over a fancy dinner. However, one cannot confused that both are food served and are basically made the same way.



BTW, going to PP/VC for finishing may not be the best choice. There are independents like Voutilainen or ADC which offer simple and classic design with high end finishing. FPJ is not focused on finishing but still offer mostly hand finished product, just not at the highest level.



Rolex on the other hand has no hand finishing and people are still puzzled at why the new Daytona has a sapphire case back.

Yes. My Voutilainen collab with SE. All finishing are by Kari.

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[ILoveFerrari]

Originally Posted by llngoc

I would add Breguet Traditionelle to the list too. Very good value in the secondary market and with better craftsmanship than most PP at fraction of the price.

Rolex is a tool watch and a very good one at it. If we want to use a car analogy, it would be a Toyota Tacoma. A FPJ will be more akin to an Aston Martin. They are both good but apples to oranges. Both of them can exist in the same “garage”.

Not Aston in general except a very rare one. I say FPJ is like certain Ferrari VS model, because it is rare but we still have to deal with the orange peel of paint. Lol

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[dakkonmc]

Originally Posted by ILoveFerrari

Rolex can be considered as a Mercedes, not Porsche. Mass produced. Luxury to most but you can ride in it via Uber.

Porsche is a unique presence in automobile enthusiast world for it sell Macan and Cayenne while some of its GT cars are collected by other serious marquee owners.

I am not a car snob and I am not a watch snob. We don't put down GT2RS just because we have other brands, but when one says GT2RS with a turbo engine with GPF on will sound better than a GT3 or a Ferrari NA V8 engine, yes someone will chuckle.

Yes, when you say Rolex manufacturer their 1 millions watches to the highest standards there ever are in the watch industry, the responses you get in this thread indeed is the reality you are asking for.

You should appreciate Rolex for what it is as well as FP Journe for what it is. Then you will have a lot more fun collecting watches. There is a thread on Ferrarichat where Ferrari owners showing their watches. Many Rolexes, many AP, but only a few FPJ.





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Daily a 4C spider!! that's so hardcore and impressive. Driving a car without power steering and limited visibility.

I thought about picking up a 4C to daily years ago, but I just can't imagine parallel parking without power steering.

Out of curiosity, did you cross shop Urus with a Cayenne Turbo or a Turbo GT?




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[ILoveFerrari]

Originally Posted by dakkonmc

Daily a 4C spider!! that's so hardcore and impressive. Driving a car without power steering and limited visibility.

I thought about picking up a 4C to daily years ago, but I just can't imagine parallel parking without power steering.

Out of curiosity, did you cross shop Urus with a Cayenne Turbo or a Turbo GT?




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Gotta lift the seat. Must not do in parallel parking. One will cry! Lol

I had a Cayenne hybrid coupe before and added all the crazy mechanical options to make it like a GT3. It floats so bad. With the Urus perf, I compared it to my previous FF and Lusso. We love the perf. Purosangue is just not work 600k, imo.

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[llngoc]

Originally Posted by ILoveFerrari

Not Aston in general except a very rare one. I say FPJ is like certain Ferrari VS model, because it is rare but we still have to deal with the orange peel of paint. Lol

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But we can both agree that Rolex is a pickup truck? A very good one though.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by ILoveFerrari

Yes. My Voutilainen collab with SE. All finishing are by Kari.

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For the collab, is the movement also finished by Kari's atelier? I always thought that it is only the dial was from Voutilainen.

[dakkonmc]

Originally Posted by ILoveFerrari

Not Aston in general except a very rare one. I say FPJ is like certain Ferrari VS model, because it is rare but we still have to deal with the orange peel of paint. Lol

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This generation Aston Martin is intriguing. I spent around half an hour driving a DBX 707 and DB12 last year. Both are nice cars, and both vehicles are aesthetically pleasing. There was something missing with both cars. It was not a memorable experience.

I had a chance to drive Acura MDX Type-S on the same week, and I was genuinely impressed. I've been recommending that car Non-Stop since last August. If I had to buy a 7-seater, I would buy it over at X7 or Land Rover.

The suspensions feel more lively and agile than a DBX 707?!? ( it's not,but it really feels like it)

Luxury watches and luxury cars in some aspects are very similar. At different price points. Buyers have different expectations.

I think both Rolex and FPJ are great watches for different reasons. If I want it workhorse for the next 10 years and not worry about wear and tear. I would probably buy a stainless steel Rolex.

If I want something more refined, I would buy a FPJ.

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[codecow]

Ferrari makes what like 7k cars a year, 10k? They make 10x the number of Ferraris to FPJ.

[dakkonmc]

Originally Posted by llngoc

But we can both agree that Rolex is a pickup truck? A very good one though.

I still think the BMW 2 Series is a good analogy for a SkyDweller or maybe it's like a Ford Raptor.



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[dakkonmc]

Originally Posted by ILoveFerrari

Gotta lift the seat. Must not do in parallel parking. One will cry! Lol

I had a Cayenne hybrid coupe before and added all the crazy mechanical options to make it like a GT3. It floats so bad. With the Urus perf, I compared it to my previous FF and Lusso. We love the perf. Purosangue is just not work 600k, imo.

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You're a true enthusiast. Going from FF to Lusso. Out of curiosity. How big of a difference do you notice going from FF to Lusso from a driver perspective? I have always heard the back seat Comfort improved dramatically between the two generations.

There is still a huge price gap between FF and Lusso at this point. Is it worth the money? Is FF 90% of the car a Lusso is?

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[vliberman]

Lots of excellent comments and points.. I still will argue Rolex is Porsche of watch world…

Have u seen Porsche engine? I mean in the most recent models starting with 991 (2012 model year). Not unless u are mechanic or work your own cars! Now, who that reminds u of?

Porsche doesn’t care what its engine looks like, whereas all other manufacturers do (Red intake covers on Ferrari anyone?). Similar philosophy with Rolex. Don’t care what caliber looks like rather how it performs.

Now, anyone makes more accurate, robust and precise cars, mean mechanical watches? Nope…

Porsche makes the same car for the last 70 years, so does Rolex! It does not deviate and care what customers want, it gives them what they need!

Porsche produces the largest number of sports cars (Mustang is not a sports car!), so does Rolex… and so on!

People suggest Aston as FPJ stand in..c’mon ladies, it doesn’t even make its own engine..

FPJ is a Ferrari… it is Porsche vs Ferrari…

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Lots of excellent comments and points.. I still will argue Rolex is Porsche of watch world…

Have u seen Porsche engine? I mean in the most recent models starting with 991 (2012 model year). Not unless u are mechanic or work your own cars! Now, who that reminds u of?

Porsche doesn’t care what its engine looks like, whereas all other manufacturers do (Red intake covers on Ferrari anyone?). Similar philosophy with Rolex. Don’t care what caliber looks like rather how it performs.

Now, anyone makes more accurate, robust and precise cars, mean mechanical watches? Nope…

Porsche makes the same car for the last 70 years, so does Rolex! It does not deviate and care what customers want, it gives them what they need!

Porsche produces the largest number of sports cars (Mustang is not a sports car!), so does Rolex… and so on!

People suggest Aston as FPJ stand in..c’mon ladies, it doesn’t even make its own engine..

FPJ is a Ferrari… it is Porsche vs Ferrari…

My Turbo S before has carbon fiber cover. So Porsche does try to make the engine pretty too.


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[dakkonmc]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Lots of excellent comments and points.. I still will argue Rolex is Porsche of watch world…

Have u seen Porsche engine? I mean in the most recent models starting with 991 (2012 model year). Not unless u are mechanic or work your own cars! Now, who that reminds u of?

Porsche doesn’t care what its engine looks like, whereas all other manufacturers do (Red intake covers on Ferrari anyone?). Similar philosophy with Rolex. Don’t care what caliber looks like rather how it performs.

Now, anyone makes more accurate, robust and precise cars, mean mechanical watches? Nope…

Porsche makes the same car for the last 70 years, so does Rolex! It does not deviate and care what customers want, it gives them what they need!

Porsche produces the largest number of sports cars (Mustang is not a sports car!), so does Rolex… and so on!

People suggest Aston as FPJ stand in..c’mon ladies, it doesn’t even make its own engine..

FPJ is a Ferrari… it is Porsche vs Ferrari…

Are you suggesting Rolex is like a Porsche because you can't see the engine?

It's not the most compelling or logical argument. The primary goal of watch is time keeping, and the secondary goal is aesthetically pleasing. That's why finishing and complication are important.

Intellectually speaking.... if you want an accurate and reliable timepiece, probably better off buying a Casio.

I think Rolex is closer to a BMW than a Porsche. Porsche doesn’t just make sport car. They make car enthusiast driven vehicles. I think Porsche does a better job catering to the enthusiast than Rolex does.

Btw, Mustang is legitimate sports car and it has been the best-selling sports car in the last 10 years globally.



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[mickyd329]

Surprised to see a Rolex vs FPJ thread made it to 54 posts... I don't think they can be compared to each other. Very different brands with very different purposes.

There is no comparison in finishing or complications. Nothing wrong with Rolex. Great utilitarian watches with tremendous reliability and accuracy. Every collection needs a combination of Rolex's. FPJ on the other hand is art with innovative movements.

I agree with many, I see Rolex as a BMW versus FPJ a Ferrari. Both great cars, but with different purposes.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by ILoveFerrari

Yes. My Voutilainen collab with SE. All finishing are by Kari.

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That is sick BTW! Congrats!

[ILoveFerrari]

Originally Posted by dakkonmc

You're a true enthusiast. Going from FF to Lusso. Out of curiosity. How big of a difference do you notice going from FF to Lusso from a driver perspective? I have always heard the back seat Comfort improved dramatically between the two generations.

There is still a huge price gap between FF and Lusso at this point. Is it worth the money? Is FF 90% of the car a Lusso is?

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2016 FF is the one to get for the standard glass roof. Internal material quality FF is nicer. Thicker padding, smell of the leather remained after 15k miles. Lusso interior design definitely wins. FF exhaust is classically Ferrari V12, cannot mistake that. Sounded like F12 as there is no GPF. Lusso only when start cold sounds powerful or during high load.

Transmission wise as for all next generation Ferrari, Lusso much quicker than FF.

Besides the look, FF is 90% of the car, but needs to buy a CPO from dealer because, yes, the PTU issue is real. I had PTU changed in the Lusso.

Overall, I think I will get the Lusso as it is much more modern design.

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[ILoveFerrari]

Originally Posted by llngoc

For the collab, is the movement also finished by Kari's atelier? I always thought that it is only the dial was from Voutilainen.

Both dial and movement are finished by Kari. The movement are made by SE which manufacturers its own hairspring.



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[ILoveFerrari]

Originally Posted by codecow

Ferrari makes what like 7k cars a year, 10k? They make 10x the number of Ferraris to FPJ.

I was referring to the limited edition of Ferrari, which is like 499 period.

Also rarity wise yes, but a lot of times Ferrari quality control makes you scratch your head very hard. Lol

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[ILoveFerrari]

Originally Posted by dakkonmc

I still think the BMW 2 Series is a good analogy for a SkyDweller or maybe it's like a Ford Raptor.



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+1

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