Finally Found The Perfect 5513!

[interestedwatcher]

Tough crowd. I think it's a nice looking dial, that was priced appropriately.

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

“Signs of life” is far too generous.
Maybe my point got lost, but I don’t think I was exaggerating in the conceit that when Jacek or some other dealer has to come up with names like “stardust” or “hot lava” or “moonscape” to try to sell clearly damaged dials that can’t be repaired, one can’t help feel that it’s all an effort to create a false belief that these dials are somehow “rare” or “exotic” and therefore worth tens of thousands of dollars. A perfect example is how the term “tropical” for a dial has been so abused and misappropriated.

Now I agree... ;-)
but let us be honest on the other hand, all you find with gilt dial around 25k is already in a state of "sign of life" or has been relumed or retouched.....
If he would have targeted a mint original gilt dial, OP would have certainly spent at least 10 to 15k extra ...

[sensui]

Quite frankly don't see an issue either here as not everyone has the same taste and find beauty in different perspectives. As long as it's priced appropriately which Jacek seems to do on a regular basis.

On that note, it's cool to find flawless specimens but living through the hobby I find beauty/interest in the natural wear with the passage of time as well. Even modern watches I own I start to have these thoughts when I see battle scars.....everything tells a story and conjures a memory.....that's what makes this meaningful for me.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

If he would have targeted a mint original gilt dial, OP would have certainly spent at least 10 to 15k extra ...

If your only option for buying watches is to pay premiums to famous dealers, then this is true.

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by Dan S

If your only option for buying watches is to pay premiums to famous dealers, then this is true.

not really, but keen to listen to your advise on where to buy a gilt sub in excellent condition for 20k nowadays ;-)

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

not really, but keen to listen to your advise on where to buy a gilt sub in excellent condition for 20k nowadays ;-)

You're funny, first you suggested that it would be $35k-$40k for an excellent gilt Sub ($25k plus $10k-$15k), and then when I said they could be found for less if you hunt, you came back with this wise-guy comment. $20k for an excellent gilt Sub? No soup for you!

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by Dan S

You're funny, first you suggested that it would be $35k-$40k for an excellent gilt Sub ($25k plus $10k-$15k), and then when I said they could be found for less if you hunt, you came back with this wise-ass comment. No soup for you!

no soup ok...how much means less ?
give us some light, it is always easy to comment on OP or its seller, but give us your benchmark, then we start talking with the same point of reference...and we can compare apple and apple ...

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

not really, but keen to listen to your advise on where to buy a gilt sub in excellent condition for 20k nowadays ;-)

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

no soup ok...how much means less ?
give us some light, it is always easy to comment on OP or its seller, but give us your benchmark, then we start talking with the same point of reference...and we can compare apple and apple ...

I don't care to talk about prices, nothing is more boring in a thread. Figure it out for yourself. No one can say when and where they will find a watch and what the price will be. You can only keep hunting in every place you can imagine. Track every auction result you can find to see the real range of values (not influencer asking prices) and you will understand who got a bargain and who overpaid. Keep networking locally and online, and bidding in auctions. Now and then, something good will turn up at a fair price, and it's time to be opportunistic.

Don't forget that the dealers bought those watches at half the prices they are asking, so the watches are out there if you can find them.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I don't care to talk about prices, nothing is more boring. Figure it out for yourself. No one can say when and where they will find a watch and what the price will be. You can only keep hunting in every place you can imagine. Track every auction result you can find to see the real range of values (not influencer asking prices) and you will understand who got a bargain and who overpaid. Keep networking locally and bidding in auctions, but be a cheap bastard. Now and then, something good will turn up at a fair price, and it's time to be opportunistic.

I think you can find a *great* deal with a lot of digging but my time is also worth ~$1500 an hour so it's worth paying dealers for a bit of premium.

When I was a kid, I used to run a guitar retailer and would hunt down & buy killer vintage guitar inventory all the time. It requires work & hours. Not really something I'm willing to do in this case :)

[4rnold]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

I think you can find a *great* deal with a lot of digging but my time is also worth ~$1500 an hour so it's worth paying dealers for a bit of premium.

When I was a kid, I used to run a guitar retailer and would hunt down & buy killer vintage guitar inventory all the time. It requires work & hours. Not really something I'm willing to do in this case :)

1500 dollar an hour? what do you do?

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by 4rnold

1500 dollar an hour? what do you do?

A plumber in uk

[4rnold]

Originally Posted by TuRo

A plumber in uk

a plumber anywhere for that matter

[Greglaw]

The OP likes the watch, so good for him. If he got taken, well, with something so obvious, ie. That there is damage or cracking of the dial, for someone to spend that much without a lot of research, regardless of how much money they make, well then, caveat emptor. However, if he likes it and it doesn’t flake or damage the watch, and it is unique and what he wanted and was willing to pay for it, and knew what he was doing, then good for him and I hope the OP enjoys it despite any negative comments. No one else has one that looks just like that, so it is unique, and I think it looks cool. If you don’t, ok, that is your opinion. I think that leaving a case that has nicks, scratches, gouges, etc. because of some history that you will never know, as it is possible the “history” that one romantically enjoys was not from some other person’s military service (not your own or that of a close family member and why you want some stranger’s watch that was used for that is beyond me, but, whatever floats your boat-I don’t know why someone would want my boots, uniform, or watch from my time in the army) or adventures, but, someone who just abused or beat up the watch, or didn’t care, does not look very good.

I like old, unadulterated vintage pieces that aren’t beat to hell, as well as fully restored pieces, they both have their merit in my opinion. Because it is something I like.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

I think you can find a *great* deal with a lot of digging but my time is also worth ~$1500 an hour so it's worth paying dealers for a bit of premium.

@Arnozerosix detoured the thread into price, that wasn't my intention. Many people are willing to pay a premium, either because money doesn't mean much to them (as in your case) because they don't trust themselves to identify a legitimate example, or both. That's fine.

For me, while I can afford to spend more on a watch, it just rubs me the wrong way to give my money to the dealers who have largely ruined this hobby with their greed and self-promotion. I'd rather pay extra to pry a great example out of the hands of one of my friends (real or virtual), that's where the best watches are found if you really want something good. Also, after a while, another watch is just another watch ... the hunt becomes most of the fun.

As I noted, my main concern is the stability of the dial, so just be gentle with it.

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Keep networking locally and online, and bidding in auctions. Now and then, something good will turn up at a fair price, and it's time to be opportunistic.

Don't forget that the dealers bought those watches at half the prices they are asking, so the watches are out there if you can find them.

Let us forget about prices... non sense you're right...

To be transparent, what i like in some sellers like this one is that at least they provide high re picture without hiding the "defects"...(even if i share your opinion when they present these defects as strengths)...
I was not really lucky in Auction so far, just bidding on something different in general worse from what they showed on picture.

That said if you do have abilities to identify a bargain from photo, that's not my case and for that reason, i am keen to spend a 10% extra through a recommended dealer.


PS: Sorry OP for the off topic...for me this watch is nice even though the dial is showing its age ...

[Dan S]

I think you mean a 100% premium, not 10% :-)

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I think you mean a 100% premium, not 10% :-)

You're exaggerating :-)....but i see what you mean ;-)

[Juhuatai]

Dan, in my experience, the dealer margins are much less than you think they are.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Juhuatai

Dan, in my experience, the dealer margins are much less than you think they are.

That's interesting. I've never sold to a high profile prestige dealer for cash alone, so I don't have that first-hand experience. I guess maybe that's how you would know their mark-up. I also don't know whether dealers generally get their asking prices, because the watches I've acquired from dealers have always involved trades. TBH, I don't generally enjoy doing business with most of them, with a few exceptions.

However, on many occasions I've seen watches bought in auctions and then immediately listed on a dealer site, and I've generally seen mark-ups close to 100%. I don't blame them. If they can get someone to pay that price, they'd be stupid to ask less. And if you take a risk buying something in an auction, it's only fair to make some profit. Many of the watches in auctions have issues.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by 4rnold

1500 dollar an hour? what do you do?

I’ll take “what is a lawyer” for $400, Alex.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[baumare]

Originally Posted by Juhuatai

Dan, in my experience, the dealer margins are much less than you think they are.

I agree for personal experience, I've seen my watch, that I traded in with a dealer, and he sold it for a profit of around 15% . On the daytona that I give in consignment to another friend dealer he charged me 8%
I also think that dealers are buying the majority of watches between themself, with chat online or at the shows.
I'm sure there are dealres that are digging auction, pawn shop, flea market or from the uneducated seller or the seller in need and make 100% or more profit, but not the majority on the current market

[mjolnir2thor]