32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by AntoMeRolexPassion

Personal experience.
here are the results:
Measurements carried out at fully wound, lift angle 53°
Dial up: Rate 0 s/d, amplitude 217°, Beat Error 0.0 ms
Vertical 12: Rate -1 s/d, amplitude 173°, Beat Error 0.5 ms
Vertical 6: Rate -8 s/d, amplitude 176°, Beat Error 0.1 ms
Crown up: Rate -8 s/d, aplitude 172°, Beat Error 0.6 ms
Crown down: Rate -4 s/d, amplitude 180°, Beat Error 0.1 ms
Hope i have made a useful contribution like HiBoost did here

I do not understand your results because the definitions of the positions are not standard and mistakes can be easily made.

Vertical ?????

Can you please use the standard formats in the standard sequences for your data as it is much simpler to understand.

Are you measurung 4, 5 or 6 positions ?
We need the standard 5.
We do not use the 6th as it is of no use for calculations.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by AntoMeRolexPassion

Personal experience.

Do you think the LA is different depending on the age of a watch as it could possibly be something that has to be discovered depending on the date of movement production.
Originally the values were slightly higher and were brought down after a while. Could this be affecting your readings at all.
have you done any research on this effect at all.

[Castlesinthesky]

I initially voted that my 126710BLRO was running perfectly. Now, 4 years into ownership it's started losing 12s/d. I think I'll be sending it in to RSC when I get around to it.

[TheVTCGuy]

My Sub is less then two months old, and I wear it 24-7, but right now, it is 19 seconds slow for the last 13 days, that works to (rough estimate) 1.45 seconds a day slow. Well within standards and I am very happy.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

My Sub is less then two months old, and I wear it 24-7, but right now, it is 19 seconds slow for the last 13 days, that works to (rough estimate) 1.45 seconds a day slow. Well within standards and I am very happy.

Thanks for your information.
I assume 24-7 means 24 hours 7 days.
Then you have a kind of "permanent" winding.
Your watch will then probably not approach low amplitudes hence your rates will not become strongly negative, that does not surprise me. Can you do some easy “exercises" for example let it rest for 24 hours and see again how it changes. Data with a timegrapher or an App would be great too. Thanks for contributing in a positive way!

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Thanks for your information.
I assume 24-7 means 24 hours 7 days.
Then you have a kind of "permanent" winding.
Your watch will then probably not approach low amplitudes hence your rates will not become strongly negative, that does not surprise me. Can you do some easy “exercises" for example let it rest for 24 hours and see again how it changes. Data with a timegrapher or an App would be great too. Thanks for contributing in a positive way!

Sure, I can not wear it for 24 hours.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Thanks for your information.
I assume 24-7 means 24 hours 7 days.
Then you have a kind of "permanent" winding.
Your watch will then probably not approach low amplitudes hence your rates will not become strongly negative, that does not surprise me. Can you do some easy “exercises" for example let it rest for 24 hours and see again how it changes. Data with a timegrapher or an App would be great too. Thanks for contributing in a positive way!

Rest in what position ? Dial up ?

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Rest in what position ? Dial up ?

Yes, that's what I do.
My measurement sequence is seen in post #11:
DU (dial up), 6U (six up), 9U (nine up), 12U (twelve up), 3U (three up), DD (dial down).
At the end of this sequence I go to DU position again.
In addition: after full watch winding I place the watch on the timegrapher and wait 15 min to stabilize, then measure starting with DU. After each position change, I wait 3 min before measurement start.
I know very well that Rolex and many watchmakers don't use the 12U position for measurements and data analysis since the 12U watch position on our wrists is very uncommon.

[HiBoost]

I have PM'd lol-x to see if this thread could be stickied for a few weeks just to increase visibility. Regardless of which side of the issue one finds themselves, I think we'd all benefit from a large sample size.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

I have PM'd lol-x to see if this thread could be stickied for a few weeks just to increase visibility. Regardless of which side of the issue one finds themselves, I think we'd all benefit from a large sample size.

Thanks, well done!

[Robert Bruce]

I have only had my 1266010 Sub for a couple of weeks, but it runs 0.0 on the wrist, and can gain a second overnight left dial up, and lose a second overnight left crown up. I'll keep an eye on it for a year and report back.

[georgekart]

DJ41, bought August 2019. Worn a lot. Most of the time since then it has been worn. I'd estimate close to 300 days on the wrist. Amplitudes don't drop below 200 after 24h. Timing also doesn't seem to become slow. On the contrary, it seems to be gaining more now than when new.

[aayates]

I'm obviously not an expert; if you wear the watch and the +/- seconds is within specs or what one was hoping for, why does the amplitude matter?

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by aayates

I'm obviously not an expert; if you wear the watch and the +/- seconds is within specs or what one was hoping for, why does the amplitude matter?

So the reason we’re recording amp is because it’s one of the key symptoms of this movement if it affected by the issue a lot of the threads are talking about.


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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by amanbra

So the reason we’re recording amp is because it’s one of the key symptoms of this movement if it affected by the issue a lot of the threads are talking about.


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Yes, that's the accepted wisdom.
However, I wouldn't be surprised for the standard to evolve and become more flexible to take into account these new movements that seemingly can run ok with low amplitude
The 32xx movements aren't naturally predisposed to running with amplitudes in the upper ranges to start with and it's understood to be a feature of the design.

Measuring amplitude is regarded as a measure of the health of a movement. It is a non-invasive way of assessing the movement against acceptable norms.

[amanbra]

Dj36 126200 purchased sept 2019 sent to RSC august 2020. Daily beater.

Full wind

Dial up -1.3 Spd amp 252.

CU -3.2 spd amp 222.

Ym40 126655 purchased jan 2020 worn sparingly.

Dial up +1 spd amp 282.

CU -0.2 spd amp 244.


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[Chromosome]

2019 DSSD which was running really slow (losing minutes every hour) that I just sent to RSC. Will update when I get it back

[Chromosome]

Originally Posted by Chromosome

2019 DSSD which was running really slow (losing minutes every hour) that I just sent to RSC. Will update when I get it back

Got watch back from RSC ~5 weeks ago. Been running much better. I asked the AD who sent the watch to RSC what the problem was and he said Rolex don't divulge that info on Warranty fixes

[saxo3]

Amplitudes and Rates
A try to explain my view

If a movement has a technical issue, e.g. too much friction at a specific place, then the amplitudes will decrease quicker than Rolex designed for. If you don't compensate this effect by frequent windings, then the amplitudes enter after some time into a critical region (approx. < 200 degrees) and the rates will become worse, i.e. rates get more and more negative (less accurate). This unwished friction continues with time and significant wear will further degrade parts of the movement, hence your watch gets more and more inaccurate.

Example: SD43, purchased in 2017, after 2nd Rolex repair in 2019 gave the following result:
Dial Down position:
Full winding -> 286 deg., 4 s/d
After 10:00 h -> 282 deg., 3 s/d
After 26:00 h -> 267 deg., 3 s/d
After 36:00 h -> 259 deg., 4 s/d
I consider this 3235 running very well because the amplitude loss is small, the +4 s/d can be regulated or adjusted.
For me, amplitude-loss measurements vs. time is the key observable.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Amplitudes and Rates
A try to explain my view

If a movement has a technical issue, e.g. too much friction at a specific place, then the amplitudes will decrease quicker than Rolex designed for. If you don't compensate this effect by frequent windings, then the amplitudes enter after some time into a critical region (approx. < 200 degrees) and the rates will become worse, i.e. rates get more and more negative (less accurate). This unwished friction continues with time and significant wear will further degrade parts of the movement, hence your watch gets more and more inaccurate.

So,the reported lack of lube on the bearing and second hand pinion friction and wear should be the explanation on the 3235s affected with low amplitudes and very slow running ?
Any other reasons in a movement that can cause the low amplitudes and time loss ?

[Utomow]

Important thread unfortunately I don’t have proper timegrapher to contribute here

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Utomow

Important thread unfortunately I don’t have proper timegrapher to contribute here

Thanks. You can take e.g. the Watch Tuner Timegrapher App which uses a headphone as microphone. A bit tricky due to the mic. installation in different watch positions and external noise. I tried that too and it works to get a first idea, not as stable as a timegrapher but therefore much much cheaper.

The scatter of some data points on the above Watch Tuner Timegrapher figure have nothing to do with the watch movement, their are noise induced, which can be improved, for sure.

[sgwatchguy]

2018 CHNR : -10 seconds over 4 months = 0.08 spd = awesome

2020 BLNR : -79 seconds over 42 days = 1.88 spd = acceptable.

Voted, ‘no issues’.



PS: since TT accuracy &gt; SS accuracy, maybe I should buy a PM piece to have a perfectly accurate timepiece

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

2018 CHNR : -10 seconds over 4 months = 0.08 spd = awesome
2020 BLNR : -79 seconds over 42 days = 1.88 spd = acceptable.
Voted, ‘no issues’.

Thanks for your data, I have some questions:
CHNR (2018): Did you permanently wear it on your wrist? How often did you wind the movement? Did it stop during the 4 months?
BLNR (2020): same questions, applied to the 43 days
Note: both watches run a bit slow, i.e. rates (s/d) are not positive. This also depends on your wearing pattern and many other factors.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

So,the reported lack of lube on the bearing and second hand pinion friction and wear should be the explanation on the 3235s affected with low amplitudes and very slow running ?
Any other reasons in a movement that can cause the low amplitudes and time loss ?

The 3200 series is a new design and there are very likely other places of potential, significant wear, which will reduce amplitudes quicker than designed for. PLEASE, let us focus on data collection and no speculations where the problems could be and if they were already solved or not.

[Michael N Q8]

I have a 2018 BLRO and have noticed this problem. I have taken it to the local service center twice to be regulated. This is about 3-6 months ago.

What I can say for sure is that when the watch is wound and kept on wrist it maintains time within 2 sec per day. If left to run down, it loses time increasingly.

I have not taken any data but after reading these threads its clear mine has this problem. I will try to gather some data and post it.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

I have a 2018 BLRO and have noticed this problem. I have taken it to the local service center twice to be regulated. This is about 3-6 months ago.

What I can say for sure is that when the watch is wound and kept on wrist it maintains time within 2 sec per day. If left to run down, it loses time increasingly.

I have not taken any data but after reading these threads its clear mine has this problem. I will try to gather some data and post it.

All mechanical watches when the mainspring runs down could loose a few seconds, but we are only talking about a few seconds and not minutes or hours. All mechanical watches run better and more accurate when the mainspring is at peak power -reserve. So even when worn will do no harm whatsoever to give a manual wind once a week or so.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Thanks for your data, I have some questions:
CHNR (2018): Did you permanently wear it on your wrist? How often did you wind the movement? Did it stop during the 4 months?
BLNR (2020): same questions, applied to the 43 days
Note: both watches run a bit slow, i.e. rates (s/d) are not positive. This also depends on your wearing pattern and many other factors.

CHNR:
- 12-14 hours of wear everyday, 5 or 6 days a week,
- always DU overnight or when not being worn,
- I did not wind the movement for that entire duration of 4 months.


BLNR:
- 12-14 hours of wear everyday, 5 or 6 days a week,
- always DU overnight or when not being worn,
- I’ve not wound the movement since I started wearing this month and half ago.

Hope that helps. Yes I realize they’re both running slow, I’ve not noticed striking time loss day to day, to warrant further investigations or actions. Question is, do I need to?

[JohnnyMack]

My SD43 had to be sent back after it was running slow. I had it about 1.5 years and just dealt with it until I could not stand it.

-5 secs to -10 secs per day and was worse when I wore it 24/7/

Since returning from RSC, its is 0.2/secs and have had it back for 2 months.


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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by JohnnyMack

My SD43 had to be sent back after it was running slow. I had it about 1.5 years and just dealt with it until I could not stand it.

-5 secs to -10 secs per day and was worse when I wore it 24/7/

Since returning from RSC, its is 0.2/secs and have had it back for 2 months.

Thanks for you feedback!
When did you buy your SD43? It was new?
When did you see first a significant loss in accuracy? Let's say about -5 s/d.