A $2 Tudor (trash or treasure?)

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by ELLimon

I almost bid on this piece before finding the thread.

I did not followed up because it was not opened and was not sure if the case was compromised.

I have a similar 7016. Mine has half pointed crown guards.

Finding a dial will be hard, I have an original 7016 dial re-finished by Kirk dial. And a 2483 movement, so my thinking was to make it complete… ahh next time.

Has the listing ended?

[ELLimon]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Has the listing ended?

Yes, today at 10 or so PST. $3,705.

Let’s see my calculations

$4100 (with taxes)
+ 2500~4000 dial
+ 2000 ~ 3000 MK2 insert
+ 2000 case works.
+ 500 movement rebuild. assuming is toast with good oscillating weight, balance cock and main plate are authentic.
+ 100 hands relume.

My 2021 expectation of values, I might be off.

The dial will be the hardest part to source and when you find one you have to pay to play.

Tudor restoration is an expensive hobby… worth it :)

[harry in montreal]

I was into it at 3500. I just hope to successfully remove the back and have it cleaned. Maybe get a ratty dial if it comes up. Someone in NZ listed a nice caseback yesterday on eBay as a coincidence. I didn’t go higher because I feared the threads were likel6 really screwed up.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

I was into it at 3500. I just hope to successfully remove the back and have it cleaned. Maybe get a ratty dial if it comes up. Someone in NZ listed a nice caseback yesterday on eBay as a coincidence. I didn’t go higher because I feared the threads were likel6 really screwed up.

The Someone in NZ is a good guy - I could put him in connection with someone looking for a 7016 caseback.

[harry in montreal]

Johnny Linesiders, lets say I won it. I removed the bezel. Removed the crystal and ring. Took a pair of plyers and squeezed the pryed lip of the caseback so it remained more flush with the midcase. I would try to unscrew the back at that point. What do you think the chances of success would be ? I’ve bought and sold a few midcases and backs. The threads are very fine. I just felt there was a strong possibility that both the back and midcase threads would have been bent out of alignment

[ELLimon]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

Johnny Linesiders, lets say I won it. I removed the bezel. Removed the crystal and ring. Took a pair of plyers and squeezed the pryed lip of the caseback so it remained more flush with the midcase. I would try to unscrew the back at that point. What do you think the chances of success would be ? I’ve bought and sold a few midcases and backs. The threads are very fine. I just felt there was a strong possibility that both the back and midcase threads would have been bent out of alignment

I like your thinking. If it was me I use a jewelers hammer to tap the case back into shape instead of pliers and hold the case wish soft wood.

[ELLimon]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

I was into it at 3500. I just hope to successfully remove the back and have it cleaned. Maybe get a ratty dial if it comes up. Someone in NZ listed a nice caseback yesterday on eBay as a coincidence. I didn’t go higher because I feared the threads were likel6 really screwed up.

that was my max too.

Too many unknowns, it it was opened could of make it easier to bid higher. It should have the real 2483, my assumption is because original hands are still in there.

[harry in montreal]

The bezel ans the movement and the hands could have netted a good couple of grand. So the delta wasn’t so huge. I just got the sense that both the mid and back were for the McDumpster. Ever see the ad for McDumpster’s on Madtv ?

[Wing Zero]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

I was into it at 3500. I just hope to successfully remove the back and have it cleaned. Maybe get a ratty dial if it comes up. Someone in NZ listed a nice caseback yesterday on eBay as a coincidence. I didn’t go higher because I feared the threads were likel6 really screwed up.

Anyone say ratty dial?




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[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Wing Zero

Anyone say ratty dial?




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Ratty: Check. Correct: Check.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

The bezel ans the movement and the hands could have netted a good couple of grand. So the delta wasn’t so huge. I just got the sense that both the mid and back were for the McDumpster. Ever see the ad for McDumpster’s on Madtv ?

maybe the bezel and hands are worth maybe 1500
the movement probably needs rebuilt, so no value there
dial trash
insert trash
caseback trash
midcase maybe ok

It seems like a money pit. There are decent running examples for <10k

[snakeeyes]

Hi I am new, so be gentle lol

I noticed in the first photos in this thread the time on this tudor is set to 9:11 and 14 seconds.

In the photos in the auction the time is set to 2:46 and 19 seconds.

So this is where I will show my ignorance.

Wouldnt the time difference, including the travel of the sweep hand, indicate the movement is at least not rusted out. Seems like the watch was handled and it started to run?

[harry in montreal]

I hope the buyer is a forum member and shares the outcome

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by snakeeyes

Hi I am new, so be gentle lol

I noticed in the first photos in this thread the time on this tudor is set to 9:11 and 14 seconds.

In the photos in the auction the time is set to 2:46 and 19 seconds.

So this is where I will show my ignorance.

Wouldnt the time difference, including the travel of the sweep hand, indicate the movement is at least not rusted out. Seems like the watch was handled and it started to run?

You can have a watch that the time sets but does not run. That just means that it isn't locked up. Still a lot wrong with it - depending what's right will determine if the buyer got lucky or not.

[harry in montreal]

I mean the movement should be an eta, and not difficult to get to run. The question is... can you get in there and open it up... and can you close it up?

[330ci]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

I mean the movement should be an eta, and not difficult to get to run. The question is... can you get in there and open it up... and can you close it up?

I'd be awfully surprised if the threads were damaged. Probably some case damage at that point of contact. Only reason I'd see problems is of they actually deformed the case to the threads. If you couldn't get an actual rolex tool in. Just cut 2-4 small holes so you can use a regular case back opener(not my idea, I've seen it done on old watches where the watchmaker didn't have proper tools 🤣🤣)

[ELLimon]

Originally Posted by 330ci

Just cut 2-4 small holes so you can use a regular case back opener(not my idea, I've seen it done on old watches where the watchmaker didn't have proper tools )

You are not helping the old fellow. Please do not drill holes on a Tudor because you don’t have the propped tool. I think that’s what the guy with the screw driver was thinking.


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[harry in montreal]

Well, let’s say the back is otherwise stuck. Have to get her off somehow. If you ruin the back you can get one for a grand. If the midcase threads accept it then you have a nice watch worth every bit of the 3700+1000.

[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by linesiders

You can have a watch that the time sets but does not run. That just means that it isn't locked up. Still a lot wrong with it - depending what's right will determine if the buyer got lucky or not.

Excellent thanks for the reply. I just wanted to know when my time comes to maybe buy something at the last minute what things I need to look out for.

[JoJo78]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

Well, let’s say the back is otherwise stuck. Have to get her off somehow. If you ruin the back you can get one for a grand. If the midcase threads accept it then you have a nice watch worth every bit of the 3700+1000.

Agreed!

Even after the auction ended, there were 2 request from buyers asking to cancel with the winning bidder at prices of: $4K - $4.2K Of course I refused!

I just hope the winning buyer (whomever he/she) is, restores the piece back to its former glory and shares before/after images if he/she is a forum member.

All-in-all, good find, good sale and great pick-up for the buyer.

[JoJo78]

Speaking of great pick-ups... I was able to scoop-up this 17th/18th Century misidentified tiny (3 x 2-1/2 in.) gem. SUPER rare for its original cover to still be married with the piece after all this time. Cost me less than what I'll pay in Bay fees for the Tudor sale.

A similar tiny gem of the same period and maker can be seen below in the attached link. A piece sure to go into the collection. I guess one can compare this find to someone here picking up a nearly mint original vintage GMT with B&P.

Link: https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-6306409

[harry in montreal]

I also collect Japanese and Chinese antiquities. It’s so hard to value and research. Do you end up just selling with an international auction house ?

[JoJo78]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

I also collect Japanese and Chinese antiquities. It’s so hard to value and research. Do you end up just selling with an international auction house ?

Cool! Then you know how rare this lil' guy is?

Yes & no! Pieces valued @ $10K or less go on the Bay, pieces over $10K we tend to keep and/or add to our collection.....for the most part. Usually, if it's a piece valued at five-figures and not something we love, we'll send to a reputable auction house like Freeman's, Sotheby's, etc. etc.. We made a mistake a few years back where a piece we undervalued sold for nearly $17K on the Bay to an overseas buyer. All went well with the sale tho and both the buyer and I were happy. The piece below sold for $10K on the Bay a couple years ago and we drove it up to hand deliver to the buyer in, NYC.

Research IS the key as I'm sure you know? Numero Uno! If you don't research properly, you'll end-up underselling a piece just like the former owner did with the tiny gem I posted in my last reply.

[dhknola]

Big fan of this threat JoJo, I am a fellow picker and love the thrill of the hunt! Great finds all through out this thread!

[Paul]

The picking phenomenon highlights a real shortcoming within some of the charity shop networks, failing to research what comes in by donation. I have a mate who has had some big scores with early New Zealand paintings. Pocket change pick ups at the thrift shops turning into substantial sales at auction. And yes, we've had the chat about how he could share the love with the charity shops but that's his business I guess. One mans trash ....

[swish77]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

My comment was absent context. Allow me to elaborate. This forum has a wealth of knowledge, some incredibly generous members who help to keep this hobby of ours alive and well. Hopefully you can see that it's a circular economy.

Its clear that you buy stuff on the cheap and sell them to make profit - no problem btw, its a free market, free country and good for you. Over 10 members provided free advice to give you some assistance on this item - not the first time and probably not the last time that you will need help on something. Cut to the chase perhaps, I (rightly or wrongly) am a strong advocate of this circular economy and would love to see your appreciation via some sort of forum contribution (its only $35 to become a pledge member).

You might describe this post / my last post as a trojan horse for donation but i'm not ashamed in admitting it. Its always good to give back, like so many others.

Very fair points.

[JoJo78]

Originally Posted by dhknola

Big fan of this threat JoJo, I am a fellow picker and love the thrill of the hunt! Great finds all through out this thread!

Thank you!

I tell folks all the time, I have the best hobby in the world.............treasure hunter

[JoJo78]

@swish77 & @alwayshere

I have not a problem with that. Who do I make the check out to?

[JoJo78]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

I also collect Japanese and Chinese antiquities. It’s so hard to value and research. Do you end up just selling with an international auction house ?

Bet you've never seen one of these before? Not super expensive, but quite rare. Picked it up about a month or so ago, sold as "African". Yes, it's a keeper! Similar examples are linked below...

Link: https://pipemuseum.nl/en/collection/apm-24-236

Link: https://pipemuseum.nl/en/collection/apm-24-500

[JoJo78]

Originally Posted by Paul

The picking phenomenon highlights a real shortcoming within some of the charity shop networks, failing to research what comes in by donation. I have a mate who has had some big scores with early New Zealand paintings. Pocket change pick ups at the thrift shops turning into substantial sales at auction. And yes, we've had the chat about how he could share the love with the charity shops but that's his business I guess. One mans trash ....

Yeah, that's quite sad. One should always give back to the community from which one takes from. If your friend doesn't want to give cash back to these organizations, then at the very least, he should donate his least valuable works to them for resell.

We've donated works of art to some major institutions such as the Harvard Art Museum, British Museum, given artworks to researchers who helped us with projects as they wouldn't accept cash and also donated to smaller local spots. Always good to give back!