James Bond's True Timepiece

[Donald Grant]

Originally Posted by delldeaton

Elsewhere, James Dowling wrote this to me with regard to the Daniel Craig Rolex reference in EMPIRE magazine. Specifically, this is in response to the passage about Mr. Broccoli providing his own personal watch to Sean Connery to wear as James Bond in Dr. No [link], FYI.

There were two key people behind the public image of the early James Bond; Albert R. Broccoli and Terence Young.

Let us examine the backgrounds of these two principals and see what we can deduce:

Broccoli was born in New York to a typical Italian-American family (typical to the extent that he even had a gangster as a cousin); he worked as an agent before getting into the film business. Every photograph I have ever seen of him shows him wearing a suit & a tie.

Here is the Wikipedia entry on Young: "Terence Young WAS James Bond" wrote Robert Cotton. There is little doubt Young fit the profile of Bond - the erudite, sophisticated lady killer, dressed in Savile Row suits, always witty, well-versed in wine, and comfortable at home and abroad. Cotton commented, "As Lois Maxwell related in one of Connery's many biographies, 'Terence took Sean under his wing. He took him to dinner, showed him how to walk, how to talk, even how to eat.' Some of the cast remarked that Connery was simply doing a Terence Young impression, but Young and Connery knew they were on the right track." During the filming of From Russia with Love, Young and a photographer nearly drowned when their helicopter crashed into the sea while filming a key sequence. They were rescued by other members of the film crew. Ever the tough guy, Young was back behind the camera thirty minutes after being rescued.

If you had to pick a watch for either of them based on their character & history; I would choose a very slim gold watch on a Milanese gold band for Broccoli and a butch sports watch for Young.

Also think about this; which one of the two mentored Connery in the role of James Bond?

Clearly Mr. Dowling is not expressing any more of an opinion based on insider knowledge than anyone else has so far. But the logic is pretty persuasive. I'll also say that among those of us who've studied the possible sources for early Connery-Bond watches, "Terence Young as original owner" is not uncommon.

The Post is included in context on my website. [link]

Yeah, I saw that Dowling post in the Vintage Rolex section of Timezone. The problem, as I see it, is that it is merely hearsay, not fact. I have yet to see any definitive evidence that says that Terrence Young gave the watch to Connery. Nothing in print, or on the special edition DVD's. Also, the very people who said the watch was given by Broccoli to Connery via the art department are noted Bond experts, John Cork and Bruce Sciavally in their book James Bond The Legacy. These two are Bond experts, not watch experts like Mr. Dowling. Moreover, the filming of Dr. No began in Jamaica and the film evidence from the exterior/Jamaica shots only show the Submariner, not the gold watch. Direct evidence trumps hearsay and hearsay is in fact not admissable in court. If you don't believe me, ask a judge.

DG

Edit: Here is the link over at Timezone. You can see that Mr. Dell Deaton posted a scan of the section of the Empire Magazine article concerning the 6538. There is some back and forth between Mr. Deaton and other members and then James Dowling steps in with his analysis. Mr. Deaton never makes it clear that the begining scenes were filmed in Jamaica and that those scenes only show the Submariner. I find it amazing that one would continue to believe that the watch given by Broccoli to Connery was a gold watch and not the Submariner. The evidence says otherwise. However, if I see real proof to the contrary, I could easily change my mind.

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...=3994593&rid=0

[Donald Grant]

Mr. Dell Deaton also seems to imply that I said the choice for the Connery/Bond Rolex was made in Jamaica not pre-production here:

http://www.jamesbondwatches.com/dowl...-2008-0925.htm

According to the Legacy book and the Special Edition DVD's, most of the items in Bond's world were chosen in pre-production. I do not dispute it. In fact it bolsters my arguement. Rolex was decided as the watch for Bond in the pr-production of Dr. No. The authors of the Legacy book (Bond Experts) say Broccoli gave his personal Rolex to the production of Dr. No. The first scenes of Dr. No were filmed in Jamaica not Pinewood and show the "Big Crown" Rolex Submariner. I mean you don't have to be a math wiz to add it up. Pre-production decision + Broccoli Rolex + first scenes "Big Crown" = Broccoli "Big Crown" Rolex Submariner.

Now tell me if my math is wrong.

DG

[Jimbits76]

I bet if anybody asked Connery this stuff....he'd just laugh!!!!!!

J

[Donald Grant]

Originally Posted by Jimbits76

I bet if anybody asked Connery this stuff....he'd just laugh!!!!!!

J

You are quite right. But Mr Deaton and I go back to when he was a member over at AJB. Then he left us and erased all his posts. Perhaps I was right too many times. Or perhaps he left for other reasons. Who knows. But I do know circular logic does not work, nor does hearsay. Evidence wins in the end, the very evidence he challenged me to provide in my first article over at AJB in the form of references. So where is the evidence that Terrence Young provided the Submariner to Connery and where is the evidence that Broccoli wore a gold watch and that this watch was given to Connery? As I say, if convincing evidence exists, I'll easily change my mind. I'm interested in the truth, not in upholding my position. Can Mr. Deaton say the same thing?

DG

[springer]

And.......here it is.......

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by Baptistman

Could of been an Airking for all we know

In order to have been an Airking and also been as Ian Fleming specified the James Bond watch in his original writings, you'd have to be referring to a Rolex that generally met the following criteria:

• Most likely produced in the 1950s and no later than 1962 (Bond replaces his watches with new, a number of his missions resulted in his watch either being lost or destroyed)
• Not just lume, but "blazingly" bright lume
• Numerals in at least some of the positions, as opposed to simply markers
• Not gold; minimal, if any, complications (those are reserved for the bad guys)

Got any references or pictures that fit this bill?

[Welshwatchman]

James Bond was a fictional character from Flemings' imagination so the watch could have been any Rolex, including a fictional reference.

There are a number of actors who have taken the role, David Niven through to Daniel Craig. Given this, there must be a fair number of watches that have been modeled by these actors through the years.

There is probably a nice list somewhere.

[bewithabob]

delicious reading.

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

James Bond was a fictional character from Flemings' imagination so the watch could have been any Rolex, including a fictional reference.

There are a number of actors who have taken the role, David Niven through to Daniel Craig. Given this, there must be a fair number of watches that have been modeled by these actors through the years.

There is probably a nice list somewhere.

That's the question, isn't it?

A good many people believe as you've suggested. And I'll go a step further and say that, if literature is meant to be timeless (w/in reason, of course: But even Shakespeare has enjoyed modern re-interpretations), Ian Fleming should be read in the context of what we have today. As I said above here, if James Bond were to get a new Rolex, as he did in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, it couldn't be vintage; because vintage was new when Fleming wrote.

With no disrepect to that position, however, I tend to believe that there were specific models in mind even for the original stories from the 1950s and 1960s. If that's the case, then, well, okay, a "new" version. But at least enjoy the ride of trying to figure out what they are.

Or argue why not.

Why else are we here?

[Donald Grant]

Originally Posted by bewithabob

delicious reading.

I suppose you are right. But I have no particular axe to grind. What I am after is the truth about the Connery Bond Submariner, and I've been persuing that information for the better part of my life. I've heard the arguement for Terrence Young for a long time, but when you press for the evidence nobody is able to provide it. It's a good theory because Terrence Young by all accounts was James Bond, but two Bond experts who had direct access to EON productions say otherwise in the Legacy book. Until such time as it is proven wrong, Broccoli gave the Submariner to Connery via the art department.

Also, Cubby Broccoli was an avid reader of the James Bond novels, it's why he approached Harry Saltzman for the film rights. He desperately wanted to make the Bond films which he ultimately did by teaming up with Saltzman. This suggests that Broccoli's personal style may have been influenced by Fleming via the fictional charachter of James Bond. No smoking gun here, but the assumption that Broccoli's personal style favored one style of watch over another is to me a giant leap. I like and have many different watches and wear them according to my mood as does Mr. Dowling, was Broccoli any different? Just food for thought.

DG

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

I agree with Dell.

Flemming was a very meticulous writer and he sought to make Bond's world as realistic as possible. To do so he went to painstaking lengths as far as detail was concerned and took advice from those in his audience who were experts in their particular fields.

When a writer as meticulous as Flemming specefies a particular watch or object for a character then it usually means something - the character and the object will be a perfect fit and the object will tell us something about that character.

Interesting thread - long may it continue.

Okay, now that Omega SA has "officially" confirmed its 2201.50 Planet Ocean 42mm as the watch James Bond will wear in Quantum of Solace [link], does that add or detract from this Thread?

(I've already Posted a separate discussion on the advertising itself here in the Rolex Watch Forum on Omega.)

After this latest news came out, I re-read my September 25 Blog and continue to to think it boils down to the options I've listed there. Today, irrespective of "Ambassador" status, it seems to me at the very least that this sends a mixed message to the marketplace. Moreover, analysis pieces like the recent Marketing Week article bring up legitimate questions about the potential ROI that any watch brand is likely to get in the face of such a strong mental (and emotional!) tie between James Bond and Rolex [link].

[Jimbits76]

Originally Posted by delldeaton

Okay, now that Omega SA has "officially" confirmed its 2201.50 Planet Ocean 42mm as the watch James Bond will wear in Quantum of Solace [link], does that add or detract from this Thread?

Not really...I think you'll find that the statement was made at the beginning of the thread following a question from Steven!!!!!

J

[acce1999]

Originally Posted by delldeaton

In order to have been an Airking and also been as Ian Fleming specified the James Bond watch in his original writings, you'd have to be referring to a Rolex that generally met the following criteria:

• Most likely produced in the 1950s and no later than 1962 (Bond replaces his watches with new, a number of his missions resulted in his watch either being lost or destroyed)
• Not just lume, but "blazingly" bright lume
• Numerals in at least some of the positions, as opposed to simply markers
• Not gold; minimal, if any, complications (those are reserved for the bad guys)

Got any references or pictures that fit this bill?

Sounds like an Explorer...

Best,

A

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by acce1999

Sounds like an Explorer...

Best,

A

Agreed.

[giles quantum]

Daniel,does wear a 6538- I know because I supplied it for his 40th Birthday!!

[Quicksilver]

Wow - thanks Giles, inside information

Daniel Craig obviously has very good taste in watches.

Welcome to the Forum.

[C. Davidson]

Originally Posted by giles quantum

Daniel,does wear a 6538- I know because I supplied it for his 40th Birthday!!

Thanks for the info!

[KJacques]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

James Bond was a fictional character from Flemings' imagination so the watch could have been any Rolex, including a fictional reference.

There are a number of actors who have taken the role, David Niven through to Daniel Craig. Given this, there must be a fair number of watches that have been modeled by these actors through the years.

There is probably a nice list somewhere.

A list from one site:

Dr. No - Rolex Submariner
From Russia With Love - Rolex Submariner
Goldfinger - Rolex Submariner
Thunderball - Rolex Submariner
You Only Live Twice - ?
On Her Majesty's Secret Service - Rolex Submariner
Diamonds Are Forever - ?
Live And Let Die - Rolex Submariner (also a Pulsar)
The Man With The Golden Gun - Rolex Submariner
The Spy Who Loved Me - Seiko
Moonraker - Seiko
For Your Eyes Only - Seiko
Octopussy - Seiko
A View To A Kill - Seiko
The Living Daylights - Rolex Submariner
Licence To Kill - Rolex Submariner
GoldenEye - Omega Seamaster
Tomorrow Never Dies - Omega Seamaster
The World Is Not Enough - Omega Seamaster
Die Another Day - Omega Seamaster
Casino Royale - Omega Planet Ocean, Seamaster

Good pictures of all the watches, including the "boob" cam Seiko from Octopussy.
http://members.optushome.com.au/heliosz/jamesbond.html

[Antonio]

Lynd -Rolex?
Bond -Omega
Lynd -Beautiful

Omega is the right watch for Bond, IMO ;)

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by Antonio

Lynd -Rolex?
Bond -Omega
Lynd -Beautiful

Omega is the right watch for Bond, IMO ....

Since both appear to confuse the two brands even at close range viewing!

[-Subsevens]

Originally Posted by Jimbits76

In what could be a massive blow to Omega's ego and marketing campaign, this month's Empire magazine has a feature on the new Bond movie; A Quantam of Solace...and I quote...

"Daniel Craig likes to tell a story about his watch. It's a Rolex Submariner 6538, an exact replica of the one he remembers Sean Connery wearing in Goldfinger."

He then goes on to reference the story of Broccoli giving Connery his own due to the budget constraints and that Fleming was a stickler for detail!!!!!

So there you have it. James Bond does wear a Rolex watch!!!!!!!

YES!!! Omega is a great watch, but I am glad that this mystery has been solved!!!

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by -Subsevens

YES!!! Omega is a great watch, but I am glad that this mystery has been solved!!!

Seriously:

• What mystery have we solved here (ie, what's the question)?
• What have we decided (ie, what's the answer)?

Don't get me wrong: I'd be happy to nail any particular box shut. Frees up time for "depth" of analysis.

But I like to be sure.

[RolexSoFla]

Originally Posted by Donald Grant

........................... the very people who said the watch was given by Broccoli to Connery via the art department are noted Bond experts, John Cork and Bruce Sciavally in their book James Bond The Legacy. These two are Bond experts, not watch experts like Mr. Dowling. .................................

I agree. After hearing several years ago from different sources that it was Broccoli's Submariner given to Connery, I have a very difficult time accepting that it may have come from Terrence Young. Interesting thread.

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by RolexSoFla

I agree. After hearing several years ago from different sources that it was Broccoli's Submariner given to Connery, I have a very difficult time accepting that it may have come from Terrence Young. Interesting thread.

Are you at liberty to share your sources?

[SDman]

Originally Posted by tinstar

I watched a interview with him and he said that bad advice from his manager was the reason for only one film. He did not go into details, but you could tell he still felt the pain from it.

He also mentioned that when he auditioned for the part and was later told he was going to be the next "007", he "went straight out and bought a Rolex".

Not sure which model, he didn't say.

I read that Lazenby wanted to get paid more than the previous Bond that's why the producer turn him down. Well that's what I read......

[baldyspoon]

Stop all being so anal he now wears an Omega because it is better looking than any rolex and can be worn as a day watch or with a suit and never looks out of place

[cody p]

a fictional character wears a fictional watch, so what's all the fuss about?