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#61 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Charlotte
Posts: 182
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Quote:
As relates to the odysseus. I have now had mine almost a year. The bracelet has grown on me more than I would have thought. I have worn on straps as well but have put it back on bracelet as it is so comfortable. |
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#62 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Somewhere in time
Watch: Lange & Patek
Posts: 612
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Quote:
Thanks for the feedback on the Odysseus. ![]() |
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#63 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Charlotte
Posts: 182
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#64 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Somewhere in time
Watch: Lange & Patek
Posts: 612
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#65 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 4,200
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Quote:
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#66 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Santa Fe
Posts: 1,870
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Quote:
End of relationship. |
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#67 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,938
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Quote:
It's an area ALS could improve. |
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#68 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Somewhere in time
Watch: Lange & Patek
Posts: 612
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Quote:
That said, Lange has obviously made the "marketing" choice to limit Odysseus steel production in order to try to ride the almost-impossible-to-buy-at-retail steel sports craze and address their usual issues of deep AD discounts and high secondary market depreciation. So in that light reserving Lange's first regular production steel piece for people with purchase history and making it a kind of "reward watch" do make sense. However, using additional non transparent criteria to deem collectors "not worthy" does seem misplaced and an ill advised approach as it both seems arrogant and will surely put otherwise big fans off the brand (potentially forever). I can only assume this approach is a not thought through unintended result of higher than expected demand and hopefully not a permanent Lange strategy. |
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#69 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: USA
Watch: What I am wearing.
Posts: 1,879
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Quote:
Had a dealer at a HUGE secondary outlet (the biggest) tell me if they did not receive huge numbers of brand new models at wholesale pricing to move them end of year, they would stop taking in used ALS altogether because they are so difficult to move at profit. Had another dealer at a mid size place say "ALS is the finest producer of 5000 watches per year, that should only produce 2500 watches per year, in the world." I thought it was amusing. If you are buying an ALS and never ever selling it, who cares. But if you are like the majority of the collectors I know who move in and out of watches over the years, ALS is rough. That is undeniable. I don't know if they should cut production (as that dealer suggested they should), or something else, but I am not sure trying to pump up sales of dress watches by tying them to the success of a sport watch is the best tactic. It's an interesting issue to be sure. Viewed from the back ALS is simply sublime. I hope this sports watch works out for ALS, and their strategy pans out because I'd like to see them be super successful, but I will always have my doubts with Richemont in charge. ![]()
__________________
Rolex │ H. Moser │ F.P. Journe │ Audemars Piquet │ Patek Philippe _______________________________ "I'm not playing hard to get, I'm playing hard to want." |
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#70 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Santa Fe
Posts: 1,870
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#71 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 4,200
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Quote:
Can’t comment on others purchases but if I wanted to step out of ALS I would be running a great profit on all the pieces - none of which were discounted although one was a discontinued used piece (paid over retail for this piece). ![]() |
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#72 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: USA
Watch: What I am wearing.
Posts: 1,879
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Quote:
![]() ALS value depreciation is sort of a running joke with dealers and collectors, but I do not follow the brand closely. I always assumed there must be some pieces that held up really well. Zeitwerk? Datograph? I am genuinely curious. Is this "ALS hold their value about as well as a used boat" I have always heard not accurate? It feels like as long as I have been collecting watches (almost 14 years) I have consistently heard two things wrt ALS. (1) They make some of the finest watches in the world bar none. (2) Good luck when you go to sell it. ![]() Can you share some of the pieces that see strong demand? Appreciate it! ![]()
__________________
Rolex │ H. Moser │ F.P. Journe │ Audemars Piquet │ Patek Philippe _______________________________ "I'm not playing hard to get, I'm playing hard to want." |
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#73 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: USA
Watch: What I am wearing.
Posts: 1,879
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Almost forgot. It will be super interesting to see how the Boutique model works for them. I know it has worked like gangbusters for FPJ. There was a time when Govberg could get lots of "Boutique only" pieces as an Espace, but those days are over. The Boutique model took a few years to really start working, but now they have transitioned most all of the premium models direct to Boutique only and the Boutiques were basically sold out of everything for 2020 by the end of August.
So yeah, it took awhile to get it going, but it has worked splendidly well for them after some initial teething. Be interesting to see if ALS follows the same trajectory. ![]()
__________________
Rolex │ H. Moser │ F.P. Journe │ Audemars Piquet │ Patek Philippe _______________________________ "I'm not playing hard to get, I'm playing hard to want." |
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#74 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,603
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I really like the boutique model move for them
IMHO They needed to flood the market to let buyers of other brands realize how special their pieces are What better way than super cheap on resale ? Then once you have traction you move to limited availability via boutique only I like it as a biz strategy Anyway I find the staff at The boutiques to be second to none |
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#75 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Charlotte
Posts: 182
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I think the boutique model will work much better for them. For the vip ALS collector. There seems to be enough of them to buy a lot of the volume. If you track the prices. They have been stabilizing and moving up. So far the models holding value of increasing. All the lumen watches. The lange1 anniversary models. The blue dial pieces. Odysseus was well.
Sadly the Dato and zietwerk don’t do as well. Part is do to price point at msrp. The 1815 chrono actually does a lot better than the Dato. As the dealer network shrinks. I think their value will appreciate. In terms of production. They are maxed out without investing in another factory. |
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#76 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 322
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Quote:
The SA in the boutique was hoping for a change in that rule as enquiries had already died down, but that was before all of this. |
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#77 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Here and there...
Posts: 1,872
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And what of we Lange fans who just loved the watches, and bought them irrespective of resale, perceived value, or company awareness?
I can’t help but feel Lange have alienated a loyal following by chasing instead a fickle and cynical demographic. Requesting an Odysseus immediately following the announcement (it’s well documented here also that I happened to meet the CEO and have a long discussion about the watch), had I been told “supply is tight, but we can get you the watch in six months”, I would have been understanding and happy to wait. As it were, the blunt “no” was quite simply a slap in the face, taking even the sales assistant at the boutique by surprise. I have not been able to bring myself to wear my Lange 1 since, and have ordered a Czapek Antarctique instead of the Odysseus. |
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#78 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Charlotte
Posts: 182
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Quote:
On top of that they ran into a supplier issue as the bracelet is not made by them. |
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#79 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Santa Fe
Posts: 1,870
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Quote:
Like you, I have decided to look elsewhere for the next addition to my collection. |
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#80 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 992
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I call many AD in UK + the Boutique in London, they all said the same thing regarding the Odysseus: basically no previous buying experience , ALS or other products => forget it.
I was as if I was talking to a Patek or a Rolex AD. Some people are more lucky than other... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#81 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Real Name: Robert
Location: Lone Star State
Watch: AP RO 15400, FOIS
Posts: 2,362
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#82 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Montana
Posts: 3,223
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This is what happens when a brand decides to jump on the SS sport model relationship piece bandwagon.
It's overdone. It's a chore and a bore. Stop it. |
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#83 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 2,107
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Hard to stop it when it's effective.
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#84 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Montana
Posts: 3,223
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#85 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 2,107
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I mean FP journe, vacheron, and ALS are reaping the benefits too. Never in my wildest dreams would I expect an overseas to be trading at sticker if not more.
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#86 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Somewhere in time
Watch: Lange & Patek
Posts: 612
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There is definitely some kind of luxury sports watch "spillover" effect happening which has been going and accelerating for quite some years. It started long ago with the steel Daytona but then slowly proliferated throughout the Rolex steel sports range and up market to Nautilus / Aquanauts and Royal Oaks. Now it seems to be moving beyond Rolex/PP/AP to the brands you mention and beyond.
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#87 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Montana
Posts: 3,223
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Honestly, I don't think they're reaping the benefits of Rolex SS models doing so well, for instance.
I think what's happening right now is there's nowhere for people to dump their money, and people think watches are an appreciating asset because the numbers are fueled by an illiquid, unregulated, opaque market. I'm not saying it's bad for the brands who get to ride on the coattails of Rolex (and to some extent Patek, although the Rolex SS models definitely have a wider reach in the media, etc), but I don't see this as a success on Lange's part. It's just spillover, as you noted. |
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#88 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Real Name: Neil
Location: UK
Watch: ing ships roll in
Posts: 59,357
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#89 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 4,200
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#90 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 125
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Anyone have insights into availability and value prop of the WG Odysseus vs SS? A friend with no purchase history was contacted by a boutique about it so it seems more attainable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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