TS's Take on the Cubitus Release

[so nice]

Originally Posted by Fla Gert

I canceled my Ellipse order from the London Salon on back of his comments. I told them exactly why. We vote with our wallets.

I'm sure Patek will be fine without this "hater". Seems like they don't want new clients anyways.

Respect

[TheHolyLuck]

Originally Posted by Champagnepapi

Here’s a photo that goes well with the interview:





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Now we have a watch with the same shape of Thierry Stern’s head.
One day he woke up in front of his mirror and said : whats the most beautiful shape in the world ? My beautifull head. We make a Nautilus out of it

[inxs777]

AND I have huge wrists, I want it to be in 45mm.

Seems like he designed a watch for himself..

[edyu]

If we give him the benefit of the doubt in that maybe he's a geek that's just not very good with diplomacy when he speaks? Could it be that he just doesn't know how to talk to people without being too "direct."

Never mind, as I typed it I realized that it still doesn't excuse him. LOL.

[Russell996]

Having read the magazine article (admittedly a translation), I’m not sure I understand why people are so upset. Even assuming that the article editor represented what was said by TS verbatim, I still don’t read it as an attack on anyone, simply a statement of fact.

I believe this is the quote, but correct me if I’ve misunderstood - ’ We all always get attacked when we launch something new. The haters are mostly people who have never had a Patek and never will. So that doesn't bother me. What counts for me is the result.’

So he cares about the result and only about people who own or will own a Patek Philippe. What’s the issue guys?

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Having read the magazine article (admittedly a translation), I’m not sure I understand why people are so upset. Even assuming that the article editor represented what was said by TS verbatim, I still don’t read it as an attack on anyone, simply a statement of fact.

I believe this is the quote, but correct me if I’ve misunderstood - ’ We all always get attacked when we launch something new. The haters are mostly people who have never had a Patek and never will. So that doesn't bother me. What counts for me is the result.’

So he cares about the result and only about people who own or will own a Patek Philippe. What’s the issue guys?

Because he’s completely crapping on anyone who disagrees with him saying they’re too poor to buy his watch. If you’re a new customer and the owner/president of the company says you’re a loser, would you really want to still buy from them?

Regarding the statement of fact. If your wife asks do I look fat, are you going to say yes you look like a whale? It’s a statement of fact! There’s a right way and wrong way to respond to people and his statement was not how you respond. If he said something like “We understand that new releases are always going to be controversial but ultimately it’s up to the market to decide” then less people wouldn’t have an issue with it. His response comes off as extremely arrogant and entitled coming from a nepo baby trying to prove that he’s not.

[Roger Lococco]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Because he’s completely crapping on anyone who disagrees with him saying they’re too poor to buy his watch. If you’re a new customer and the owner/president of the company says you’re a loser, would you really want to still buy from them?

Regarding the statement of fact. If your wife asks do I look fat, are you going to say yes you look like a whale? It’s a statement of fact! There’s a right way and wrong way to respond to people and his statement was not how you respond. If he said something like “We understand that new releases are always going to be controversial but ultimately it’s up to the market to decide” then less people wouldn’t have an issue with it. His response comes off as extremely arrogant and entitled coming from a nepo baby trying to prove that he’s not.

Exactly. His interview was cringeworthy.


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[edyu]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Having read the magazine article (admittedly a translation), I’m not sure I understand why people are so upset. Even assuming that the article editor represented what was said by TS verbatim, I still don’t read it as an attack on anyone, simply a statement of fact.

I believe this is the quote, but correct me if I’ve misunderstood - ’ We all always get attacked when we launch something new. The haters are mostly people who have never had a Patek and never will. So that doesn't bother me. What counts for me is the result.’

So he cares about the result and only about people who own or will own a Patek Philippe. What’s the issue guys?

Most people (I assume) in this subforum do or will own a Patek so we are the people that he cares about.
However, it's just like YM2 which I thought is pretty cool with really fun movements and there are people who love them and buys them but many more people dislike them.
Just like YM2, I believe eventually after they downsize the watch, more people will like Cubitus (assuming we didn't get offended by TS's stance and decided to never buy a Patek).

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Having read the magazine article (admittedly a translation), I’m not sure I understand why people are so upset. Even assuming that the article editor represented what was said by TS verbatim, I still don’t read it as an attack on anyone, simply a statement of fact.

I believe this is the quote, but correct me if I’ve misunderstood - ’ We all always get attacked when we launch something new. The haters are mostly people who have never had a Patek and never will. So that doesn't bother me. What counts for me is the result.’

So he cares about the result and only about people who own or will own a Patek Philippe. What’s the issue guys?

As often happens these days, I think it’s very likely we are misinterpreting an excerpt from an interview lifted out of context. And a translation no less. Perhaps a bad translation….

The simple fact is, MOST people WON’T have a Patek. There aren’t many Pateks.

But, I think we can all agree, there are many easily offended internet warriors looking to pick fights to feel better about their opinions. The so-called “haters” (or whatever word Thierry used in German that was translated as “haters”).

I mean, putting it another way, one is ok with the rather silly/slightly pompous marketing of Patek (“one never owns a Patek….”), but one vilifies the brand due to an out-of-context throw-away sentence in a translated interview?

[Breizh]

Ok, I'll buck the trend here :-)

I kind of like the 5528
Also, I remember how the Aquanaut got a similar reception at launch. When I bought one (in early 2000) I heard a lot of "it's not a real Patek", "a plastic strap! this is the end of Patek" etc...

Now, the cubitus might go a different way and be flop after all, but I think it's too soon to know for sure.

[pam66]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Having read the magazine article (admittedly a translation), I’m not sure I understand why people are so upset. Even assuming that the article editor represented what was said by TS verbatim, I still don’t read it as an attack on anyone, simply a statement of fact.

I believe this is the quote, but correct me if I’ve misunderstood - ’ We all always get attacked when we launch something new. The haters are mostly people who have never had a Patek and never will. So that doesn't bother me. What counts for me is the result.’

So he cares about the result and only about people who own or will own a Patek Philippe. What’s the issue guys?

the issue is that he has declared that he wants to expand his customer base. and then he goes on saying that people who do not like his amateurish mod of the nautilus design are out of it anyway.
that is what is wrong with this attitude. it is snobbish and actually plain stupid from the owner of a company which sells items to the public. actually, this interview has reminded me of what is wrong with PP.

[Russell996]

It is interesting how we all read the same interview and draw different conclusions.

[Mini2]

What one persons views are different to another.
If you like the watch great if you don't no big deal
At the end of the day its just a watch, Nothing more nothing less.
Its a luxury item that one don't need to make there life any better or worst.
People who are reading between the lines of comments from the owner saying this or that
Don't let it ruin your day, more things to be worried or concerned about than what TS has said about the future of PP

[sampelligrino]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Having read the magazine article (admittedly a translation), I’m not sure I understand why people are so upset. Even assuming that the article editor represented what was said by TS verbatim, I still don’t read it as an attack on anyone, simply a statement of fact.

I believe this is the quote, but correct me if I’ve misunderstood - ’ We all always get attacked when we launch something new. The haters are mostly people who have never had a Patek and never will. So that doesn't bother me. What counts for me is the result.’

So he cares about the result and only about people who own or will own a Patek Philippe. What’s the issue guys?

The surprise to me is that collectively I've yet to see many rave reviews or passionate excitement for the watch across the spectrum, not just "mostly people who have never had a Patek and never will"

Look at the forum here where we probably represent some of the most enthusiastic passionate lot of owners, on social media where IG is ripping the watch apart with memes, discussions with friends who do (and don't) have Patek, all collectively near revile the watch and can't believe the best they could do was a Nautilus but make it larger and square

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by sampelligrino

...discussions with friends who do (and don't) have Patek, all collectively near revile the watch and can't believe the best they could do was a Nautilus but make it larger and square

It is the releases that Thierry Stern and associates chose to do first. Interestingly, many expected something... more. And that is the great thing about Patek Philippe is that we care and are passionate enough to expect... more.

There's a great set of lyrics that, imho, hold true.

"The more you suffer
The more it shows you really care, right?"

We're suffering. We had hoped for... more. We still care.

[Gebbeth]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Having read the magazine article (admittedly a translation), I’m not sure I understand why people are so upset. Even assuming that the article editor represented what was said by TS verbatim, I still don’t read it as an attack on anyone, simply a statement of fact.

I believe this is the quote, but correct me if I’ve misunderstood - ’ We all always get attacked when we launch something new. The haters are mostly people who have never had a Patek and never will. So that doesn't bother me. What counts for me is the result.’

So he cares about the result and only about people who own or will own a Patek Philippe. What’s the issue guys?

I'm trying to figure out whether you are being facetious or being serious.

Assuming you are being serious, here are my reasons why TS' comments are upsetting with me.

First, I don't think it's a misinterpretation either by translation or something that the journalist misrepresented. German speakers have said, on this forum and other public platforms, that this is exactly what TS said. In addition, when a journalist puts something in quotes, that better be verbatim what that person said or else you might as well pay millions to TS as that would be the equivalent of journalistic malpractice. Now, if TS said he was "misquoted", that often means the words were taken out-of-context (the media version of "I didn't mean to offend you, but if I did...."...the most disingenuous statement a public figure can give.)

Second, to put his comments "in context", his statement about Patek owners and wannabe owners was preceded by his comments about how Patek doesn't consult outside designers, that they never do, that the whole Cubitus design was his, etc. Right there, TS is not only factually wrong but also delusional, whilst also exhibiting signs of narcissism.

The very design "linage" of the Cubitus was from a Gerald Genta design.....singularly and famously a Gerald Genta design. To say Patek never goes outside for design help is....I just can't say it more clearly....factually wrong and almost hilariously wrong. The whole Cubitus did not spring out of TS' head like some Roman god. It's a square Nautilus....literally a square Nautilus.

He essentially co-opted another person's design and said that it was "his" design, and not something that came from outside sources.

So, TS needs to get his facts straight, as well as the history of Patek itself before he makes asinine statements like the above.

Which leads me to my third point. TS saying "We all get attacked" when launching something new. Really? WE ALL GET ATTACKED? Who is "all" and what is "always?" This kind of megalomaniacal statement, yet highly passive aggressive, mixed with elements of gas-lighting, would be comical as parody if not for the fact that I think TS is deadly serious.

To day Patek designs are ALWAYS attacked when new, I don't think so. And if by reference he is going by the experience with the Nautilus and Aquanaut, he is quietly forgetting the many, many, many, many designs that Patek has launched that has been praised and admired, loved, and beloved.

This sort of self-pity should frankly be beneath him, but apparently not.

No, TS.....it's the Cubitus that is creating this storm because of the very design you are praising. Time will tell, but conflating the Cubitus reaction to all of Patek's new designs in the past, is just plain misguided.

So the context of this statement about Patek owners or wannabe owners comes from the background of delusion, narcissism, factual inaccuracy, self-pity, defensiveness, and plain arrogance.

So in that context, what do you think he meant when he said that the criticism is coming from non-Patek owners and one's "that never will."

What do you think he means by "never will"?

This is peak elitism, gate-keeping, and the kinda of social status shaming that would be best described as harkening back to the kind of aristocratic mind-think that permeated European culture up until the horrors of WWI and WWII. It is truly a blast from the past.

AND HE'S TRYING TO ATTRACT A NEW GENERATION OF PATEK OWNERS AND COLLECTORS?

Truly, truly, truly misguided.

He doesn't have to care of course. It is his company. I don't have to care either, but somehow it does because of all the baggage his comments carry.

It really makes you second guess in a way high-end watch collecting and what that means. Ultimately, who are you supporting? Do you care?

I guess the same can be said of FP Journe and the controversy surrounding him.

It won't stop me from collecting fine watches, but given the choices out there, the excellence of the many high end watch makers out there, and the competitiveness of this area, I dunno. Do I want to plop down $90k on a watch that makes me feel good when I see it and wear it, but kinda creates a bit of a caveat in my mind...."I'm buying despite that do*che of a guy?"

[DGP]

I have to take back my comments.
Today I called into the London boutique and saw the models. In the flesh they do look far better than in the press photos.
Not sure I’ll put my name down for one, still think my 5811 is prettier but no longer think the Cubitus is such an ugly duckling

[Calatrava r]

So, does PP offer an alligator strap option for these watches?

[pam66]

Originally Posted by Gebbeth

I'm trying to figure out whether you are being facetious or being serious.

Assuming you are being serious, here are my reasons why TS' comments are upsetting with me.

First, I don't think it's a misinterpretation either by translation or something that the journalist misrepresented. German speakers have said, on this forum and other public platforms, that this is exactly what TS said. In addition, when a journalist puts something in quotes, that better be verbatim what that person said or else you might as well pay millions to TS as that would be the equivalent of journalistic malpractice. Now, if TS said he was "misquoted", that often means the words were taken out-of-context (the media version of "I didn't mean to offend you, but if I did...."...the most disingenuous statement a public figure can give.)

Second, to put his comments "in context", his statement about Patek owners and wannabe owners was preceded by his comments about how Patek doesn't consult outside designers, that they never do, that the whole Cubitus design was his, etc. Right there, TS is not only factually wrong but also delusional, whilst also exhibiting signs of narcissism.

The very design "linage" of the Cubitus was from a Gerald Genta design.....singularly and famously a Gerald Genta design. To say Patek never goes outside for design help is....I just can't say it more clearly....factually wrong and almost hilariously wrong. The whole Cubitus did not spring out of TS' head like some Roman god. It's a square Nautilus....literally a square Nautilus.

He essentially co-opted another person's design and said that it was "his" design, and not something that came from outside sources.

So, TS needs to get his facts straight, as well as the history of Patek itself before he makes asinine statements like the above.

Which leads me to my third point. TS saying "We all get attacked" when launching something new. Really? WE ALL GET ATTACKED? Who is "all" and what is "always?" This kind of megalomaniacal statement, yet highly passive aggressive, mixed with elements of gas-lighting, would be comical as parody if not for the fact that I think TS is deadly serious.

To day Patek designs are ALWAYS attacked when new, I don't think so. And if by reference he is going by the experience with the Nautilus and Aquanaut, he is quietly forgetting the many, many, many, many designs that Patek has launched that has been praised and admired, loved, and beloved.

This sort of self-pity should frankly be beneath him, but apparently not.

No, TS.....it's the Cubitus that is creating this storm because of the very design you are praising. Time will tell, but conflating the Cubitus reaction to all of Patek's new designs in the past, is just plain misguided.

So the context of this statement about Patek owners or wannabe owners comes from the background of delusion, narcissism, factual inaccuracy, self-pity, defensiveness, and plain arrogance.

So in that context, what do you think he meant when he said that the criticism is coming from non-Patek owners and one's "that never will."

What do you think he means by "never will"?

This is peak elitism, gate-keeping, and the kinda of social status shaming that would be best described as harkening back to the kind of aristocratic mind-think that permeated European culture up until the horrors of WWI and WWII. It is truly a blast from the past.

AND HE'S TRYING TO ATTRACT A NEW GENERATION OF PATEK OWNERS AND COLLECTORS?

Truly, truly, truly misguided.

He doesn't have to care of course. It is his company. I don't have to care either, but somehow it does because of all the baggage his comments carry.

It really makes you second guess in a way high-end watch collecting and what that means. Ultimately, who are you supporting? Do you care?

I guess the same can be said of FP Journe and the controversy surrounding him.

It won't stop me from collecting fine watches, but given the choices out there, the excellence of the many high end watch makers out there, and the competitiveness of this area, I dunno. Do I want to plop down $90k on a watch that makes me feel good when I see it and wear it, but kinda creates a bit of a caveat in my mind...."I'm buying despite that do*che of a guy?"

the cubitus is a TS vanity project that has gone wrong, even after having plagiarized the nautilus to extremes. there is only one serious design change, namely taking the case from the nautilus roundish shape to the square form, the rest is THE SAME. even the caliber was taken over, they did not bother to build a square one.
and then we get lectured about taste by the amateur designer TS, who does not even have any type of higher education degree?
ps: the watch looks totally off (too big etc.) even on him. mr. design-boss should have bothered to take a look at the photograph:::)))

[pam66]

Originally Posted by DGP

I have to take back my comments.
Today I called into the London boutique and saw the models. In the flesh they do look far better than in the press photos.
Not sure I’ll put my name down for one, still think my 5811 is prettier but no longer think the Cubitus is such an ugly duckling

every PP has something to go for it, namely the watchmaking craftsmanship - which is excellent. that shapes IMHO the first impression. it does hide the flaws on first impact.

[Gamut]

Perhaps Patek has decided, as a business decision, to loosen their former discipline of pursuing "timeless understated elegance" to actively reach out to people who would want to loudly signal their wealth and status with their watches (to differentiate themselves as being superior). If so, it aligns with the message that Mr.Stern has sent in the interview in question. It also aligns with the ad video of the rooftop party.

In another interview, Mr.Stern says that the 5822P is targeted at clients who “likes the hype”.
https://www.ft.com/content/72b8a46e-...d-55c3cef66ad9

Also, Jerome Pernici, Commercial and Marketing Director of PP, says that the Cubitus will appeal to "those seeking something more prominent on their wrist".
https://swisswatches-magazine.com/in...us-collection/

[enjoythemusic]

Imagine if Thierry Stern had released the new Patek Philippe Conneseur Series of fine timepieces, featuring many watchmaker hours of newly designed movement with handcrafted elegance matched with a simple yet iconic handcrafted dial.....

[Champagnepapi]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Imagine if Thierry Stern had released the new Patek Philippe Conneseur Series of fine timepieces, featuring many watchmaker hours of newly designed movement with handcrafted elegance matched with a simple yet iconic handcrafted dial.....

Now, imagine if they had developed a new square movement that actually fits the case size of the the new line, or make the case size smaller, and then they would shock everyone by making it open-worked. Now that’s something that could be interesting imo


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[ikoh76]

Originally Posted by Giovannibravo

Honestly I don’t think it is completely awful. I’m sure it will grow on us. I would have just liked it to be smaller. Rectangular watches wear bigger. On top of that the tend is moving towards smaller watches.

That!

[pam66]

Originally Posted by so nice

Respect

good move

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Champagnepapi

Now, imagine if they had developed a new square movement that actually fits the case size of the the new line, or make the case size smaller, and then they would shock everyone by making it open-worked. Now that’s something that could be interesting imo

During Thierry's leadership ??? Sure, imho Dad Stern would have.

[pam66]

the stern's arrogance came out really bad when they put dad's face on that minute repeater a while ago :::))))

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by pam66

the stern's arrogance came out really bad when they put dad's face on that minute repeater a while ago :::))))

It was to celebrate his 85th birthday and the watch went to personal friends of the Sterns. I assume you weren’t offered one?

[so nice]

Originally Posted by Russell996

It was to celebrate his 85th birthday and the watch went to personal friends of the Sterns. I assume you weren’t offered one?

No, he’s just a patekless hater like TS loves to talk about on the PR tour for his new “design”

[byow]

Originally Posted by Russell996

It is interesting how we all read the same interview and draw different conclusions.

Agree with you. Read it in German and my understanding is that TS mentioned the people who will not be clients of PP because they are not interested in owning a PP.

It surprises me how people understand from the same text « people who cannot afford to own a PP ».

I have several very close friends who have RMs but refuse to have a single PP. They understood this article like I did.

I suppose everyone understands the message they want to take from the interview in order to support their arguments.