Just ordered a used Rolex from Ebay... any risks I am missing?

[JSolution]

Originally Posted by freefly

No prob. And many (most) times, these scammers are too lazy to write their own ad copy, and just cut/paste the description details from the same place they stole pictures from...as was the case here (and that is how I found the original listing).

Props to you on the detective work.

Well least you came and found out the info you were after OP.

[77T]

Originally Posted by JSolution

Props to you on the detective work.

Well least you came and found out the info you were after OP.

Yes props to Eric (freefly) for the sleuth work. Now I see no reason to further shield the eBay scammer.

In fact, hiding the eBayer doesn’t help. It serves to let him scam others in the same way.


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[xrole]

Hilarious: my item is now marked as "Successful delivery", less than a day after it was supposedly sent to me in another country. He has sent it to an address within his own country, and not to mine, and all of this information is written as clear as day on the DHL tracking information that I can now use as evidence. I was out the whole day so did not receive or sign for anything (in the other country that I live in), should that need explaining.

I really do not understand why this scam seller shot himself in the foot by doing such a quick delivery within his own country, not even to mine, that was marked as 'delivery completed' within 24 hours. If he had any common sense he would of shipped something to somewhere within my country that took 5 days plus, to at least make it seem plausible. The guy even told me to "expect delays due to the pandemic" in his email. I am guessing that I am not dealing with a seasoned pro here.

I just talked to my credit card company who said that although they can't cancel the reserved transaction, they can investigate and do a charge back if Ebay would be for any reason unable to help. However, I think it is looking pretty clear at the moment that by doing this he has made everything much easier for me, so I will call Ebay on Monday to start the claim.

[77T]

Originally Posted by xrole

I really do not understand why this scam seller shot himself in the foot by doing such a quick delivery within his own country, not even to mine, that was marked as 'delivery completed' within 24 hours. If he had any common sense he would of shipped something to somewhere within my country that took 5 days plus, to at least make it seem plausible. The guy even told me to "expect delays due to the pandemic" in his email. I am guessing that I am not dealing with a seasoned pro here.

Just so we understand correctly…

This eBay listing by the scammer was using those stolen photo’s and description that Eric (freefly) found from a fellow TRF seller?

The eBay account was an apparently legit account that the scammer hijacked?

You’ve opened a case with eBay (or attempted to open one)?

Your CC company wishes to wait until eBay sorts this out?

You still wish to keep the identity of the eBay account and the completed listing confidential?


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[1981Eagle]

My story has nothing whatsoever to do with this watch purchase, but it is interesting and demonstrates how you can be an unwitting participant in a scam.

I use a CPAP breathing machine for sleep apnea. I wanted to get a SoClean machine to clean it. It was a 'good' price, but not 'too good to be true' ... so I ordered it and paid via PayPal. I got the SoClean and it was brand new from a medical pulmonary supply company and in a sealed box ..... all was well with the world.

Later, I was contacted by the supply company (about a month an a half later). They asked me if I got the CPAP, and how I paid ... I told them I did, and I got it from eBay. They said they don't sell items using eBay.

Turns out that the scammer had a stolen credit card number, he (or she) advertised an item that they didn't even have possession of on eBay. Then once I paid them via PayPal, they used the stolen CC # to call the supplier and have the machine drop-shipped to me. So the eBay 'seller' got paid via PayPal, me (as the buyer) got the item I 'paid' for - eBay got their seller's fees, the victim of the CC# theft reported the fraud and never had to pay, and the medical supply company got screwed. The victim of the stolen CC # didn't know until they got their bill so it went nearly a month of bad charges.

I offered to send it back and take it up with eBay, but the supply company said they really couldn't take it back as it had been used, and that I should keep it and use it well and in goof health. I felt bad for them, and I was willing to send it back ... but the company decided to absorb the loss.

Despite eBay being set up to 'favor' buyers over sellers - and they are making it harder to sucessfully scam people - they are still filled with thieves, scumbags, and scammers.

[77T]

Originally Posted by 1981Eagle

Despite eBay being set up to 'favor' buyers over sellers - and they are making it harder to sucessfully scam people - they are still filled with thieves, scumbags, and scammers.

The seller certainly was a thief and scumbag. That’s an unusual case for sure.

But how was any of that eBay’s responsibility? He didn’t scam you per your narrative. That transaction was fulfilled.

He did scam the So Clean company by using a stolen credit card #.

Good on you for offering to return the product.


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[1981Eagle]

Originally Posted by 77T

The seller certainly was a thief and scumbag. That’s an unusual case for sure.

But how was any of that eBay’s responsibility? He didn’t scam you per your narrative. That transaction was fulfilled.

He did scam the So Clean company by using a stolen credit card #.

Good on you for offering to return the product.


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It wasn't eBay's fault, nor mine, nor the company ... eBay was just the venue used for the scammer to scam. I'm a retired cop and I still feel bad that, despite 'paying' for it ... I still feel like I did something underhanded in a way ... I can't explain it.

[77T]

Originally Posted by 1981Eagle

It wasn't eBay's fault, nor mine, nor the company ... eBay was just the venue used for the scammer to scam. I'm a retired cop and I still feel bad that, despite 'paying' for it ... I still feel like I did something underhanded in a way ... I can't explain it.

Shouldn’t feel poorly about the stolen CC being in the chain of events leading to your So Clean.

BTW, the medical supply company didn’t get screwed. When electronic theft compromises a CC #, the merchant is protected just like the unwitting CC holder.

Within the CC fee structure charged to merchants plus the carried interest by revolving payments, every purchase goes towards covering the fraudsters.

So, in a strange way, you’ve been paying for scams like this for years. Now you’ve just become an inadvertent beneficiary.

[flyboyyy]

Originally Posted by 77T

Just so we understand correctly…

This eBay listing by the scammer was using those stolen photo’s and description that Eric (freefly) found from a fellow TRF seller?

The eBay account was an apparently legit account that the scammer hijacked?

You’ve opened a case with eBay (or attempted to open one)?

Your CC company wishes to wait until eBay sorts this out?

You still wish to keep the identity of the eBay account and the completed listing confidential?

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Ya…not entirely sure why all the secrecy from the OP with the listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19443647117...p2047675.l2557

[77T]

Originally Posted by flyboyyy

Ya…not entirely sure why all the secrecy from the OP with the listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19443647117...p2047675.l2557

Thanks for posting that - I found another auction by that same seller.

IMHO, by not warning the community, the OP inadvertently became an accessory before the fact. Because his scammer is stealing photos and descriptions to cheat others it should to be reported and shared here in WatchOut in the spirit of communication.

Beware of this other auction underway.




https://www.ebay.com/itm/19443646916...8AAOSw0oRhVuPL

I can state it is a new scam unequivocally - check the photos and description here from a Watchuseek advert on June 1, 2018.

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/f...-39mm.4717783/

Help by reporting this new one to eBay now - we may stop a scam in progress before a new victim falls for it.

PS: I did start a new thread for this new scam to get more eyeballs on it.

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[xrole]

Guys I sincerely do appreciate those who have provided constructive feedback throughout this thread. However, to those members like 77T who have been stamping their feet for me to reveal the seller, I have obviously already reported the seller to Ebay as fraudalent, along with all relevant listings, so there is nothing further you can do at this point until Ebay nuke him. My day job involves a degree of confidentiality and the golden rule is that you don't share too much information that could jeopardise what you are working on while a situation is active. Thus, I am not going to share a direct link to the seller or auction, where people from this forum could interfere by trying to be heroes, or alternatively zeros, by messing with listings or messaging the seller and influencing how this guy reacts and how Ebay handle him and me with with getting my money back.

That is what I believe, backed by experience, is the best to deal with things like this. I just wanted to make that clear one time as I will not get into any further debate about it. Thanks. :)

[tike71]

My goodness. 33.3% positive feedback. Two glaring red negative feedback right at the top regarding rolex watches. All other feedback was for low priced items. How many red flags were you trying to ignore?

[xrole]

Originally Posted by tike71

My goodness. 33.3% positive feedback. Two glaring red negative feedback right at the top regarding rolex watches. All other feedback was for low priced items. How many red flags were you trying to ignore?

If you have not understood yet from reading the thread that I took a calculated risk based on my protection from fraud, then I don't know how else to explain it to you. I knew it could certainly be suspect, but I took the chance on the off chance that it wasn't, knowing that I will get my money back.

[77T]

Originally Posted by xrole

However, to those members like 77T who have been stamping their feet for me to reveal the seller, I have obviously already reported the seller to Ebay as fraudalent, along with all relevant listings, so there is nothing further you can do at this point until Ebay nuke him.

Some members here try to stop a fraud in progress and that is why many asked you to provide the listing or the seller. You have the option to keep that information confidential - but here is the profile of the eBay account the scammer hijacked (or perhaps has gone rogue):

https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_p...ating:NEGATIVE

There was a scam he perpetrated twice in the past by stealing photos and description from a member here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/19434095706...p2047675.l2557

And Tony's original listing here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=600989

There were two negative feedbacks in German (translated below) about that scam:
1) Caution - does not reveal any data about yourself or about the watch and wants to send it off uninsured after receipt of 29,000 - and then breaks off the sale! Very dubious!
2)Impossible behavior, arrogant whistle on this watch, don't answer my questions

To top it off, per your claim to have "checked it out", the current AP listing was fraudulent until I noted it in post #100 earlier.
And in a new thread in the eBay scam subsection: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=825148
.
.
So what you call stamping feet is a way to warn members here about fraudulent sellers or fake watches - as well as helping others by deleting frauds.

[jimcarver]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

Back in 1993 I bought a Submariner on Ebay. I was young and stupid. I took it to a Rolex dealer and it was a fake. A very good fake. I was out $3500. Ebay tried to track him down but he was gone.

Lesson learned - I will never, ever, ever, ever buy another watch or high value item on Ebay again. I do not care that it is 20+ yrs later and things have gotten better. WAY too much fraud on Ebay.

Good luck!

No wonder it was fake you bought it before ebay was even founded.

[thenewrick]

The 3 biggest issues with these scams is:

-it wastes your time and effort
-your CC and other confidential info is probably compromised now-
-even if eBay or the CC company try to help refund you it’s likely going to tie up that money in purgatory for several weeks

eBay isn’t really a legitimate website in my experience. Seen scams on everything from $1 items to $100k items. It’s no better value than buying anywhere else and so much risk and frustration.

Stick to ADs for Rolexes. Buying used is folly.

[wesdaniel]

Wow. Interesting roller coaster. Can't wait to see the final twists and turns.

[1665fan]

What a waste of time and resources for what was a guaranteed scam/fake watch…….if that’s fun for you Rock on!!!!!

[433]

The allure of a great deal causes one to overlook obvious signs of fraud.

[Laszlo]

Originally Posted by xrole

Guys I sincerely do appreciate those who have provided constructive feedback throughout this thread. However, to those members like 77T who have been stamping their feet for me to reveal the seller, I have obviously already reported the seller to Ebay as fraudalent, along with all relevant listings, so there is nothing further you can do at this point until Ebay nuke him. My day job involves a degree of confidentiality and the golden rule is that you don't share too much information that could jeopardise what you are working on while a situation is active. Thus, I am not going to share a direct link to the seller or auction, where people from this forum could interfere by trying to be heroes, or alternatively zeros, by messing with listings or messaging the seller and influencing how this guy reacts and how Ebay handle him and me with with getting my money back.

That is what I believe, backed by experience, is the best to deal with things like this. I just wanted to make that clear one time as I will not get into any further debate about it. Thanks. :)

Paul was only trying to help.

[hambone1983]

I fear you are going to have to engage in a lengthy exchange to convince ebay you've been scammed and they'll be reluctant to accept your tale. Hope I'm wrong, but I think they do "protection theater" better than they do actual buyer protection

[Andad]

Originally Posted by hambone1983

I fear you are going to have to engage in a lengthy exchange to convince ebay you've been scammed and they'll be reluctant to accept your tale. Hope I'm wrong, but I think they do "protection theater" better than they do actual buyer protection

And they now are stepping up to authentication.

[AdamW]

I've heard of betting before, but this kind of takes the cake. Lot's of money to take a pretty good chance of getting scammed.

Sorry OP. Hope you get your $ money back.

[xrole]

Well, the scammer has issued a refund via the official Ebay system, likely because he realised from my messages to both him and Ebay that he had shot himself in the foot by being so obvious about everything (I provided all the links and evidence provided by the kind member freefly in this thread and it is really clear cut), and has decided to remove the risk of getting in trouble. As far as I am aware, a payment through the Ebay checkout system is always tied to a real account and a real person (even if it's no longer the seller account that he used) so it's not like they can just vanish into thin air; there is always an audit trail leading somewhere and to someone, and this kind of money gets people criminal records and/or jail time.

I just called Ebay to confirm that the refund was being processed and they said that yes, they see it in their system and to call them if its not in my account by the 25th.

Originally Posted by AdamW

I've heard of betting before, but this kind of takes the cake. Lot's of money to take a pretty good chance of getting scammed.

Sorry OP. Hope you get your $ money back.

Yes, clearly I wouldn't have done it if I were not comfortable with the chances of a good outcome, and as I expected Ebay seems to have your back in these scammer situations with their Buyer Protection. I got through to their customer service phone line within 2 minutes each time and they were very polite, efficient and helpful.

[AdamW]

Congrats on your refund and a happy conclusion!

[hambone1983]

hopefully it goes smoothly from here to your money being safely in hand.

[joli160]

Great detective work Freefy

Xrole, I understand your point not disclosing anything yet until the matter is resolved. Hopefully you will provide as much details about this scammer once it is closed and you have your money back for the benefit of all.

[jykiim]

ok

[edisonstar23]

Seems like EBay has improved with the buyers protection. Or maybe they were able to refund the money because nothing got delivered ?


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[xrole]

Originally Posted by joli160

Great detective work Freefy

Xrole, I understand your point not disclosing anything yet until the matter is resolved. Hopefully you will provide as much details about this scammer once it is closed and you have your money back for the benefit of all.

Thanks and yes I will do. :)

Originally Posted by edisonstar23

Seems like EBay has improved with the buyers protection. Or maybe they were able to refund the money because nothing got delivered ?

Buyer Protection of course includes refunds when an item is not delivered. In the end you are buying something in good faith on their platform and the Buyer Protection is designed to alleviate concerns about people ripping you off, something which Ebay certainly has made a reputation for in the past!