AD Selling out the back door? - Here’s pictures!

[Yobber76]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Funny how NOBODY complained about AD drop shipping or selling to flippers when cases were stuffed with watches I and grey prices on NIB were 15% to 20% off retail.

Yup! In late 2017 I bought a 126300 DJ41 from a TS on this forum for a 15% discount NIB.
It appeared to ship from an LA area AD, that I'm assuming the TS had a regular working relationship with.
Valid watch, I was the name on the warranty card, it still had the stickers on it.
No problem for me when there was a major savings to be had.

[njlam]

For all the AD apologists, finding out about AD to grey bundling/flipping must be like discovering Santa doesn't exist.

For the guy who thinks there is tax evasion/cash suitcases, the kickbacks can simply be accounted for as consulting fees and would be completely legitimate. This is not a presidential election campaign after all.

For the complicit ADs, they are just showing Rolex they can turn their sought after and hard-to-sell watches quickly, and Rolex has turned a blind eye. This may have given these ADs even greater allocations.

Hopefully this will change. It will change when Rolex wants it to change and the Bucherer acquisition is a great start.

I will say, the unavailability of Rolexes due to the AD BS has decreased my interest in the brand, and if I don't get a DD40 platinum soon, I will just learn to live with other brands (I have bought over 12 non-Rolex watches in the two years I have been waiting).

I am glad others who are having difficulty accepting corrupt AD behavior are speaking up.

[SBR]

Bottom line is that the buyers are the cause of what has been going on. If buyers were not willing to purchase watches on the secondary market for a premium, this would not be happening.

[SLWoodster]

I agree with this sentiment. It is time to start assigning some responsibility to the consumers.

Consumers AND Brands are the largest part of the problem.

Grey dealers and ADs are also at fault. They are there to take advantage of the situation.

Originally Posted by SBR

Bottom line is that the buyers are the cause of what has been going on. If buyers were not willing to purchase watches on the secondary market for a premium, this would not be happening.

[Lever Escapement]

I don't believe for a second that the AD closest to to me is "above board".

I was recently working with 3 people over the course of of 2 weeks where we were all able to keep an eye on who went in to the AD. (Not mentioning any names)

An untold amount of people came to the boutique during this time. A few people speaking with the manager, and a few speaking to sales assistants. There were purchases not Rolex related. A few people trying on exhibition Rolex pieces and leaving with nothing.

One guy rocks up to the door Monday morning at opening time and is buzzed in to the Boutique without saying a word. Walks in and sits down in the Rolex section. Manager comes out from the back door and hands him 2 boxes which go straight in to his backpack. A few words get exchanged and he leaves.
Same guy rocks up Friday morning at opening time, is buzzed in to the boutique and the same thing happens. 2 more boxes go straight in to the backpack and he leaves with very few words exchanged.
Next week, same guy.....

I have made numerous visits to the AD and although polite, can't say that I'm confident that I have been treated seriously. I've been on a waiting list for over 12 months for a birthday milestone, and I have been told it probably won't happen by the date I've nominated it by.
It's fairly disheartening when I'm struggling to get one timepiece of my choice (Fairly standard in most member's eyes), while I witness one guy go in to the same AD and walk out with 6 packages in 8 days.

It has left a bad taste to say the least, and I haven't had the motivation to contact the AD since.

Now that I have witnessed this, if I ever get a call I will now be skeptical on whether or not I would actually be purchasing a "new" timepiece. How do I know that the piece I get called for is actually a "new" piece and hasn't been bounced around as an "exhibition" piece for 12 months ?

Having stickers doesn't automatically render it "new".

[kopi-c]

Originally Posted by 1259

Hopefully Rolex does something about this. Somehow I doubt the will.

Exactly.

Rolex HQ could come up with ways to end the flippers/grey dealers, but they won't.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by kopi-c

Exactly.

Rolex HQ could come up with ways to end the flippers/grey dealers, but they won't.

It's simply another distribution channel and as long as secondary prices stay nicely above retail, it's a very effective promotional one as well.

Brands with high secondary market values are considered desirable, of high quality and worthy of attention from non WIS types.

Brands that are selling below retail are considered to be essentially undesirable and of poor quality (junk) and will be ignored by the masses.

[fltacoma]

KD Timepiece LLC is registered in Anaheim, CA. Knowing how to do a background research through the web is very powerful!

[SS Oyster]

I'd be careful of accusations OP ... easy to get into legal trouble over making such statements.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by Lever Escapement

I was recently working with 3 people over the course of of 2 weeks where we were all able to keep an eye on who went in to the AD. (Not mentioning any names)

An untold amount of people came to the boutique during this time. A few people speaking with the manager, and a few speaking to sales assistants. There were purchases not Rolex related. A few people trying on exhibition Rolex pieces and leaving with nothing.

One guy rocks up to the door Monday morning at opening time and is buzzed in to the Boutique without saying a word. Walks in and sits down in the Rolex section. Manager comes out from the back door and hands him 2 boxes which go straight in to his backpack. A few words get exchanged and he leaves.
Same guy rocks up Friday morning at opening time, is buzzed in to the boutique and the same thing happens. 2 more boxes go straight in to the backpack and he leaves with very few words exchanged.
Next week, same guy.....

What evidence of illegal practice or breach of contract did you obtain through this surveillance? Did you stop and question the people you had under surveillance? Did you pass information onto the authorities or Rolex?

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

I'd be careful of accusations OP ... easy to get into legal trouble over making such statements.

It's on the Internet now so it must be true. Just look at all the mind readers and sleuths who have confirmed it. The AD is as good as behind bars.

[Hollie_Rollie]

Originally Posted by Lever Escapement

I don't believe for a second that the AD closest to to me is "above board".

I was recently working with 3 people over the course of of 2 weeks where we were all able to keep an eye on who went in to the AD. (Not mentioning any names)

An untold amount of people came to the boutique during this time. A few people speaking with the manager, and a few speaking to sales assistants. There were purchases not Rolex related. A few people trying on exhibition Rolex pieces and leaving with nothing.

One guy rocks up to the door Monday morning at opening time and is buzzed in to the Boutique without saying a word. Walks in and sits down in the Rolex section. Manager comes out from the back door and hands him 2 boxes which go straight in to his backpack. A few words get exchanged and he leaves.
Same guy rocks up Friday morning at opening time, is buzzed in to the boutique and the same thing happens. 2 more boxes go straight in to the backpack and he leaves with very few words exchanged.
Next week, same guy.....

I have made numerous visits to the AD and although polite, can't say that I'm confident that I have been treated seriously. I've been on a waiting list for over 12 months for a birthday milestone, and I have been told it probably won't happen by the date I've nominated it by.
It's fairly disheartening when I'm struggling to get one timepiece of my choice (Fairly standard in most member's eyes), while I witness one guy go in to the same AD and walk out with 6 packages in 8 days.

It has left a bad taste to say the least, and I haven't had the motivation to contact the AD since.

Now that I have witnessed this, if I ever get a call I will now be skeptical on whether or not I would actually be purchasing a "new" timepiece. How do I know that the piece I get called for is actually a "new" piece and hasn't been bounced around as an "exhibition" piece for 12 months ?

Having stickers doesn't automatically render it "new".

That’s a lot of work for ….nothing. If you’re a watch enthusiast why not just try a different brand?

Rolex is the BMW/Mercedes of the industry. Everyone has one. Nothing unique.


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[Number3]

Originally Posted by huncho

yeah i mean it looks like 2 different people wrote that date. to me it's hard to tell if that's a 13 or 23 because it looks nothing like the other 2's in "2024" and realistically no human is gonna write a number exactly alike twice and completely different a 3rd time

Fair point, though he posted a ‘Friyay’ meme right above it - the 23rd was a Friday whereas the 13th was a Tuesday.

[bbombers85]

Interestingly, was just listening to the latest Hodinkee podcast episode with Fred Savage and he speaks about Bhindi and how great they are. They sold him a VTNR and green OP.

[Ferrari-F430]

I swear I have a small local AD that's mainly a jewelry store that sells out the back door.. I've been on the wait list for 18 months and there seems to be zero interest in getting me a watch.... who really knows though. The store doesn't seem to do a big business with jewelry, so squeezing a few thousand on a single watch seems like a total possibility.. who would really know?

[928ktgold]

I know 2 people who have worked with them and have gotten their grail watches from them. They had much better experiences there than with other ADs. I wouldn’t be 100% positive the OP’s post definitively implicates wrongdoing.

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by 928ktgold

I know 2 people who have worked with them and have gotten their grail watches from them. They had much better experiences there than other ADs. This post is hard to decipher. There could be a middle man involved.

Objectively speaking, the photos posted prove nothing. But people do not need a police inquiry to draw personal conclusions and form an opinion. During COVID lockdwon I've seen bags of Rolex boxes being carried from a local AD to a certain 2ndary dealer with a webstore. Made a few calls myself which only seemed to support my suspicions. Can I prove anything? No. Evidence is circumstantial at best. But the more I'm watching the market, the clearer the pattern becomes.
And the involvement of a middleman is almost always necessary for the racket to work.
Greys have always been the ADs best clients. One hand washes another. Through thick and thin. So yes, this relationship has been a longstanding one and will continue to exist. In the past, when there was less silly money floating around, discounts could be had through greys. And that was good for the enthusiast.
Conversely, the past few years with this travesty of a market it's been an opportunity for profit and ADs would be silly to miss out, save perhaps for a handful of Rolex owned establishments and ADs willing (or forced) to follow a code of conduct.
The rest, we read here and there about it all. Coming back to the middleman, this may be an individual, to whose name the watch will be sold. Can be a relative to the AD or the Grey. Or it can be a "Broker" if they have access to ADs and Greys alike, bringing them together.
There are also, believe it or not, 2ndary market web stores and / or physical stores actuall owned by ADs and ran by their relatives or other trusted individuals. Identifying the ultimate beneficiary or tracking the chain of custody is always challenging, at best.
Again, do I have proof of the above? NO but I know who is who in the circle and it's not exactly a secret. Is the activity illegal? On the face of it, no. It is not. But, there are certain ways to manipulate VAT and income tax declarations in order to conceal kickbacks and profits alike. Will not get much into that, other than pointing out as example, the VAT difference on new vs used items and the %VAT calculated over profits in the case of used items. Trying to obtain a receipt/invoice from a reseller here can be pretty revealing!
So, for all the AD and Grey apologists, dismissing the OP and similar whistle-blowing posts as fantasies show naiveté to say the least. For the most ferocious and vocal defenders of the AD/Grey pair I tend to believe that there is some skin in the game

[PeteNYC13]

Originally Posted by amphr1

Is this the same store?

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco...time-burglary/

Also looking at their yelp reviews, there is a whole bunch of 1 star ratings even tho the average is 4 stars.

Definitely smells like a fish store. I agree I do hope they lose their Rolex AD status if they are selling to known dealers.

And yet, 9 of 10 on here will parrot the "buy from one of the trusted sellers on here" line fifty time a day.
where do you think these trusted sellers get their inventory? By paying a premium to the "trusted sellers" you/we are making this market a reality.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good sellers on here and since I prefer the older Rolex models, I would absolutely purchase from them for the right price and piece but never a LNIB model. that's just me.

Would you buy a Brand New BMW 6-Series from CarMax?

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

What evidence of illegal practice or breach of contract did you obtain through this surveillance? Did you stop and question the people you had under surveillance? Did you pass information onto the authorities or Rolex?

Stalking an AD, that’s a new one

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

I'd be careful of accusations OP ... easy to get into legal trouble over making such statements.

All the talk of AD flipping is always unsubstantiated, and assumptions based only on folks not being able to get what they want when they want it. A Rolex account is life or death to any watch store and their biggest income stream by far. I doubt any AD will throw it all away to make a few more bucks on a steel Daytona. A watch they could sell inhouse to a great customer who spends tons of money with them on other stuff too. Those great customers will walk if an AD can never get them a hot watch.

[johnsonsxusfrt]

I posted this about Bhindi last week. Ron (owner) is a sc*mbag, he has been selling pieces out the side door since at least 2020 and possibly longer.

This seller is a known grey on the dealer forums. he is not a fly by night flipper, and he got the 2 most desirable GMTs from Bhindi for sale. Some people here are so naive, I've been working with this AD for years and smelled this out when covid started. They're making more money selling these pieces for a premium to greys out the side door than they are selling ladies DJs to their customers LOL!!

[JRell]

I got all my modern and popular Rolex watches from ADs. Many of them. It most likely depends on your location and relationship with your AD. I never buy anything else from them. If ADs have been doing this, I still wouldn’t go grey as it just feeds the beast. If I couldn’t get a Rolex at my AD, I would just move on and find another hobby!

[GW44]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

It's on the Internet now so it must be true. Just look at all the mind readers and sleuths who have confirmed it. The AD is as good as behind bars.

“Don’t believe everything that you read on the internet”

William Shakespeare

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by GW44

“Don’t believe everything that you read on the internet”

William Shakespeare

That's good. I might pinch it.

[GW44]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

That's good. I might pinch it.

My lawyers are watching Harry

[Ferrari-F430]

I had a friend of mine forward this to me (random, he surfs youtube like crazy) and he found a guy in Las Vegas that has a brand new Rolex shipped to him from Bhindi and the guy claims he got it at MSRP. I have never known a Rolex dealer to ship brand new watches like this? Nothing against the guy that got it, I know nothing about him, perhaps he's just a lucky guy?

https://youtu.be/qJH7Z6ySiPY?si=JsPHVzpH2DYsHubX&t=85

[911991]

Originally Posted by SLWoodster

I agree with this sentiment. It is time to start assigning some responsibility to the consumers.

Consumers AND Brands are the largest part of the problem.

Grey dealers and ADs are also at fault. They are there to take advantage of the situation.

I agree 100%, especially paying way over MSRP (I would have buyers remorse if I paid $30k for a watch that cost $16k) for a watch or buying jewelry or watches you really don't want to get a certain model, just does not make sense IMHO. But the Genie is out of the bottle at this point, not sure much can be done, but wait for the market to hopefully correct itself...

[johnsonsxusfrt]

Originally Posted by Ferrari-F430

I had a friend of mine forward this to me (random, he surfs youtube like crazy) and he found a guy in Las Vegas that has a brand new Rolex shipped to him from Bhindi and the guy claims he got it at MSRP. I have never known a Rolex dealer to ship brand new watches like this? Nothing against the guy that got it, I know nothing about him, perhaps he's just a lucky guy?

https://youtu.be/qJH7Z6ySiPY?si=JsPHVzpH2DYsHubX&t=85

Bhindi used to ship out of state (they've done it for me), saves on taxes but I thought they stopped doing that a few years ago when CA insisted on collecting local taxes. Either way they're sketchy as hell

[77T]

Not too much different than a whale getting inventory


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[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by GW44

My lawyers are watching Harry

LOL! That's good too.

You never know who's watching. Even an AD and its customers can be put under covert surveillance (see post #95). Creepy.