ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
15 June 2021, 03:45 AM | #91 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: London
Posts: 49
|
Quote:
This is the truth. The system has broken. An AD recently told me their allocation of sports and, bluntly, I can see why they want to bundle. I can’t for the life of me imagine they could make a decent margin after costs with the meagre allocations they get from the mothership. The market is a mess. The gravitation toward Rolex as ‘the’ watch and also a general store of wealth has been hugely damaging to the average watch guy. |
|
15 June 2021, 04:20 AM | #92 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,349
|
In the old days, you could get 20-25% off MSRP by buying from gray or pre-owned watch dealers. The discount was available for the Sub, GMT, Explorer, etc. Those days are long gone and who knows if they will return.
In huge pre-owned watch markets like HK, it seems pre-owned or gray dealers buy and sell from one another moreso than to end clients. |
15 June 2021, 05:06 AM | #93 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 627
|
|
15 June 2021, 05:09 AM | #94 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: N/A
Posts: 70
|
The greys even have waitlists for Rolex pieces.
|
15 June 2021, 05:25 AM | #95 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Real Name: Martin
Location: England
Watch: Sea Dweller
Posts: 3,093
|
Greys are not the new AD’s, greys are simply a result of greed.
I have no doubt that a few years ago a grey dealer sold nearly new watches at a price below the authorised dealers. Then the bubble began to grow, entrepreneurial people spotted a gap in the market and the rest as they say is now recent history. If people choose to buy their watches at prices above retail then that’s fine, it’s their money. Buying from a grey at an over inflated price is not for me, if I cannot get a watch via the AD then I cannot get it. I’ll look at other brands and other watches, there are many great watches, many better than a Rolex just without the cache of Rolex. Any Rolex I buy will be via the AD network, I have a nice relationship with my local store, if I want something specific I just have to be patient and wait for the call. But if you are impatient and cannot wait and are happy to pay above retail then by all means go for it.
__________________
Martin Small Rolex, Omega, Seiko and Oris Collection |
15 June 2021, 05:28 AM | #96 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Real Name: Martin
Location: England
Watch: Sea Dweller
Posts: 3,093
|
But that is used, it is not new.
The watch may be stickered, still have its hang tags, it may have simply gone in its box from the AD to the grey market with its new owner, that is a secondhand watch, therefore used. The watch is only new if it sold to you via an authorised Rolex AD.
__________________
Martin Small Rolex, Omega, Seiko and Oris Collection |
15 June 2021, 05:31 AM | #97 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Real Name: Martin
Location: England
Watch: Sea Dweller
Posts: 3,093
|
Quote:
But if you have a good relationship with your AD you can get the watch you want reasonably quickly.
__________________
Martin Small Rolex, Omega, Seiko and Oris Collection |
|
15 June 2021, 05:40 AM | #98 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: 1 of 13 Colonies
Posts: 8,554
|
|
15 June 2021, 05:45 AM | #99 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: MD/NC
Watch: 114060
Posts: 2,591
|
Quote:
|
|
15 June 2021, 05:48 AM | #100 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 457
|
This is so typical of all the whinners who cannot get the Rolex watches they want. The system is broken, the ADs are backdooring all their watches toi the greys, yada, yada, yada. Whats so difficult to understand? The demand far exceeds supply, therefore people who are able to secure the watches, many sell them for profit to the greys. Its insulting to the the majority of ADs who sell these watches to their best customers by accusing them of backdooring to the greys.
Whars more profitable for an AD, sell a watch to the grey at a fair profit, or sell it to their best customers who generate a significant amount of revenue for them. It makes me wonder, all those that do most of the complaining would be the first to flip the watches, if they actually got one. |
15 June 2021, 05:48 AM | #101 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: East coast
Posts: 6,659
|
|
15 June 2021, 06:13 AM | #102 | |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: US
Posts: 1,411
|
Quote:
Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk |
|
15 June 2021, 06:21 AM | #103 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: FL
Watch: OP41 Silver
Posts: 1,806
|
Quote:
The whole point of this topic is that people care. Some people don’t like wearing used clothing/jewelry. Some couldn’t care less. It doesn’t matter the condition. To each their own. But it’s very important for new members who aren’t savvy to know that all Grey Market sales are used watches and unverified by Rolex. It would be a disservice to trick people. I think if you actually talked to any of the “Trusted Sellers” and asked if they sold new watches verified by Rolex as 1st owner pieces they’d be honest and admit they were previously owned before obviously being owned by the vendor itself. So there’s a minimum of 1 previous owner and in most cases 2+. So your trust goes from 1- Rolex to AD working on Rolex behalf to minimum 2 parties and most likely 3+. It’s a game of telephone and how many people you trust. Some couldn’t care less if it’s changed hands 100 times before they buy it and trust each party especially the final party; some don’t. No sense ragging on people for not trusting multiple strangers in a notoriously sketchy business with thousands at stake.
__________________
OP41 Silver, BLNR Jubilee, 70th Anniversary Sub, 16753 Clint Eastwood |
|
15 June 2021, 06:30 AM | #104 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2,872
|
Quote:
To my mind a watch that’s been sat in an AD (not a Rolex obviously!), tried on by countless potential customers, and handled by numerous SA’s is potentially less “new” than a watch that has gone straight from an AD to a buyer to a grey. |
|
15 June 2021, 06:34 AM | #105 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,325
|
Quote:
People on this forum may think that the steel professional models are the best watches, but the general population thinks that a Rolex is a Rolex. They don't know much about the different references; they just want a Rolex and when they are ready to buy, they buy what they can get and are happy about it. There are a LOT more people like that than there are people who freak out getting a Hulk or a Batman or obsess over a Jubilee vs an Oyster bracelet. Those "undesirable" models aren't undesirable to many millions of people and there is a demand for these other references. More to the point, from the Rolex perspective, there is exactly equal demand for every single watch that they make. Rolex sells 100% of every single model, every year to its ADs. It doesn't seem to be hurting the Rolex brand value whatsoever to keep making watches that aren't professional models, in fact it seems to be helping it, A LOT. |
|
15 June 2021, 06:37 AM | #106 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Real Name: Martin
Location: England
Watch: Sea Dweller
Posts: 3,093
|
Quote:
Brand new in box is almost a true statement as the watch is as new in box but it is not brand new, that privilege went when it left the AD. You can only sell an item ‘new’ once, thereafter it is used irrespective of condition.
__________________
Martin Small Rolex, Omega, Seiko and Oris Collection |
|
15 June 2021, 06:40 AM | #107 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,325
|
Quote:
People on this forum may think that the steel professional models are the best watches, but the general population thinks that a Rolex is a Rolex. They don't know much about the different references; they just want a Rolex and when they are ready to buy, they buy what they can get and are happy about it. There are a LOT more people like that than there are people who freak out getting a Hulk or a Batman or obsess over a Jubilee vs an Oyster bracelet. Those models aren't undesirable to many millions of people. Rolex seems to have the ideal wholesale business model. From the Rolex perspective, there is exactly equal demand for every single watch that they make. Rolex sells 100% of every single model, every year to its ADs. |
|
15 June 2021, 06:41 AM | #108 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: FL
Watch: OP41 Silver
Posts: 1,806
|
I don’t think the demand for the Pearlmaster is the same as the Daytona. ;p
I don’t think Rolex is foolish I’d just like to see them balance things out a bit. In my mind when you go to a Rolex store as an enthusiast and only see ladies datejusts and Pearlmasters it makes you think they’re undesirable watches and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. If it were really hard to get ladies Datejusts and Pearlmasters I think you might actually see higher demand and prices for them. Luxury goods are weird that way. People want the more expensive and harder to get item because it feels more luxurious. |
15 June 2021, 06:41 AM | #109 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Real Name: Martin
Location: England
Watch: Sea Dweller
Posts: 3,093
|
Quote:
__________________
Martin Small Rolex, Omega, Seiko and Oris Collection |
|
15 June 2021, 06:55 AM | #110 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: FL
Watch: OP41 Silver
Posts: 1,806
|
Quote:
“First is a flag that flies forever”
__________________
OP41 Silver, BLNR Jubilee, 70th Anniversary Sub, 16753 Clint Eastwood |
|
15 June 2021, 06:56 AM | #111 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2,872
|
As I say, semantics aside, I agree a watch can only be technically new once. But I disagree that condition when a watch is sold a second time is irrelevant : there’s nothing MORE relevant IMO. I’ve bought watches brand new from ADs that have had handling marks (and once even strap change marks), and I’ve also bought discontinued models from greys that have full factory stickers and are absolutely mint. Needless to say I considered the unmarked models far “newer” than ones with handling marks, and I walked away far happier from the grey than I did the AD.
|
15 June 2021, 07:00 AM | #112 | |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: US
Posts: 1,411
|
Quote:
Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk |
|
15 June 2021, 07:11 AM | #113 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: FL
Watch: OP41 Silver
Posts: 1,806
|
Technically it's not new and the fact is it's not new. It's in "Excellent condition" and "like new condition". The words do matter.
There's a reason a Carfax report tells you how many previous owners and where it was bought and sold each time. It's not because it's irrelevant. It might not matter much, I agree. But people do care. I'll probably be shopping for a discontinued model one day and will obviously have to buy it used from the Grey Market. But, I'd never buy a current model from the GM used. Add in the extra cost of buying many models used now and it's a resounding no from me. |
15 June 2021, 07:12 AM | #114 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Real Name: Tom
Location: US
Posts: 16
|
Quote:
I've bought from a grey and honestly never worried a bit about authenticity. I did research on the dealer, but after being satisfied with my research I never was concerned. But I'm not one to worry a lot anyway. |
|
15 June 2021, 07:21 AM | #115 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Home!
Posts: 3,307
|
Unfortunately I must agree….
|
15 June 2021, 07:27 AM | #116 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 21
|
Quote:
|
|
15 June 2021, 07:38 AM | #117 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dallas
Watch: 12800ft = 3900m
Posts: 11,173
|
Quote:
It’s true, like a human a watch can’t be born more than once, but just like a human it can be a virgin. Dealers are selling sealed in coffin Rolex models and sealed in plastic Pateks, if you call that watch “used”, you’re common sense meter is broken and you’re being pedantic. |
|
15 June 2021, 07:44 AM | #118 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: MD/NC
Watch: 114060
Posts: 2,591
|
Quote:
|
|
15 June 2021, 07:50 AM | #119 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dallas
Watch: 12800ft = 3900m
Posts: 11,173
|
Quote:
Now if you’re playing lottery on ebay buying from some random person, that’s something else. Carfax tracks purchase history and accidents, someone could have a carfax for a 2019 BMW M3 with three buyers on it, no accidents and the mileage report is 6 miles. That’s a new car especially upon inspection. Dealers sell new cars for the first time with 600, 1300 or even 2000 miles on them, brand new from the dealer, might get a huge discount but I personally wouldn’t consider a car that was a loaner for 2000 miles new just because while it’s on the dealer lot with 2300 miles, it doesn’t have a car fax because it hasn’t been originally sold. Just common sense to me. |
|
15 June 2021, 08:01 AM | #120 | |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Real Name: Lee
Location: 42.48.45N70.48.48
Watch: Too many to list!
Posts: 33,618
|
Quote:
It's still good to deal with ADs and get cheaper watches than I can currently get on the grey market. That's a win from my perspective. I've also tailored my model targeting to what I can get from ADs as opposed to paying exorbitant grey prices. With the rising tide much of the catalog has gained value. I'm happy to have had access to watch models I might not have gone after had the market not taken off on its upward spiral (in the past year, Milgauss and OP41 and before that my Platona). What's most important is wearing what you like; sometimes it's not the most obvious choice either. When life cuts you lemons, make lemon chicken as they say (or something like that)!!! |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.