Sub date vs no-date

[Manamana]

Originally Posted by pepsibezel

126610lv submariner date 103,584
126610ln submariner date 177,328

124060 submariner 82,382

from the rolex submariner book. Still haven’t seen a screen shot with the numbers for the 126613 and 126619 submariner dates.

126613 - 78,540 4 years
126619 - 11,464 4 years
Deep Sea James Cameron 88,571
ND old Sub 40 114060 - 153,437 over 10 years
Sub Date 116610 - 414,905 over 10 years

If there is demand Rolex will produce more, don't be fooled by low production or rarity claims

[majidessa]

Originally Posted by Manamana

Steel Sub 126610
Production 2020-2023 - 177,328 watches

Steel Sub No Date 124060
Production 2020-2023 - 82,382 watches

Starbucks or Cermit 103,584 watches

Actual data from Rolex Submariner Book

Ratio 10 Date vs 4.65 ND so 2 to 1 approximately

Wow this is alot of SS Subs 363,294 to be exact divided by 3 (being no of years since Subs were announced in Q4 2020) = 121,098, now if Rolex produces 1.2 million watch a year we can conclude that circa 10% are SS Subs.

[fly4food84]

Honestly the date function is the only complication I use the watch for.

[Watchesnguitars]

I find the date function to be incredibly useful (especially during work days during the week) but with that being said I prefer my no date sub, over the ones I have with the date window.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by Manamana

Steel Sub 126610
Production 2020-2023 - 177,328 watches

Steel Sub No Date 124060
Production 2020-2023 - 82,382 watches

Starbucks or Cermit 103,584 watches

Actual data from Rolex Submariner Book

Ratio 10 Date vs 4.65 ND so 2 to 1 approximately

That’s not a lot of watches considering US population is 330 million and EU population is 450 million. Trying to do math in my head without a calculator here, but the amount of Submariners produced during that time is roughly .03% of the population of US and EU. I’m not even factoring in the Asian market. This explains why the demand far exceeds supply, and it’s so difficult to acquire one.


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[Manamana]

Originally Posted by Krash

That’s not a lot of watches considering US population is 330 million and EU population is 450 million. Trying to do math in my head without a calculator here, but the amount of Submariners produced during that time is roughly .03% of the population of US and EU. I’m not even factoring in the Asian market. This explains why the demand far exceeds supply, and it’s so difficult to acquire one.


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I can do the calculation in a different way which will link population with income and will reinforce your point.

there are over 131.43 Mil households in the US. 37.1% earn over $100,000. 48.76 Mil households earn over $100,000, and let's assume only one household out of 100 households want to buy a Sub a year which is a low estimate. That's 487,605 Submariners a year. Make it 2 out of 100 and it's 975,210 this is only the US, then there is the rest of the world.

[helloworldies]

Originally Posted by dmash

5 digit and before = no date

6 digit = date

This is it!

[Krash]

Originally Posted by Manamana

I can do the calculation in a different way which will link population with income and will reinforce your point.

there are over 131.43 Mil households in the US. 37.1% earn over $100,000. 48.76 Mil households earn over $100,000, and let's assume only one household out of 100 households want to buy a Sub a year which is a low estimate. That's 487,605 Submariners a year. Make it 2 out of 100 and it's 975,210 this is only the US, then there is the rest of the world.

Well done. Yes. Exactly.


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[ocb]

Originally Posted by Deppe

No, they are both not just subs - there are the Submariner and there are the Submariner Date. Don’t believe me? Well, ask Rolex then.

Haha hilarious both are Subs! Thanks! Gee, Rolex don’t say No Date how intriguing lol

So, if you look at the dial it actually says Oyster Perpetual Date, then way below that it just says Submariner, just like the no date version.

The date version is the Sub imagined by the vast majority when they hear the word, hence it makes much more sense to say Sub and no date Sub.

[Roddypeepa]

Originally Posted by Manamana

I can do the calculation in a different way which will link population with income and will reinforce your point.

there are over 131.43 Mil households in the US. 37.1% earn over $100,000. 48.76 Mil households earn over $100,000, and let's assume only one household out of 100 households want to buy a Sub a year which is a low estimate. That's 487,605 Submariners a year. Make it 2 out of 100 and it's 975,210 this is only the US, then there is the rest of the world.

Not many 100k income households buying Rolex these days imo. That’s naff all.


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[Funkle]

It doesn't mean what it used to.

[pedersenkl]

Sub! It’s awesome for a daily and has fantastic design/symmetry.

[Jefferyasher]

Originally Posted by Manamana

Air King and Milgauss

Ah, yes! Thank you for the additions!

[Phrank]

I am now, as of tonight, firmly on the side of the Submariner ND.....

[DoubleJG]

My choice was the ND, love the symmetry, but I also want a bluesy




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[Gollv0]

No date is my preference for any watch.

[Cassian739]

Originally Posted by spinnaker226

“No date”
The only sub I like with the date complication is the Starbucks, but it really comes down to personal preference.

This is the answer - get both the Sub LV and the Sub (no date). The black bezel Sub Date is ubiquitous.

[Clon3]

The answer is clear because you probably have another watch with a date.

[502 to Right]

I knew the pedants would be out in force taking shots at those not properly using the Sub/ Sub Date nomenclature. People using the term "no date Sub" should be banned!!!

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by dmash

5 digit and before = no date

6 digit = date

This ^ for me. And that's exactly what I did.

[mgsooner]

Originally Posted by JRell

1 Rolex watch - sub date. 2 + Rolex watches - sub and others with the cyclops date. Gotta have at least one with the cyclops, it is what makes Rolex iconic.

I tend to agree.

[SLWoodster]

There's a certain level of collectors that actually care about real rarity.

99.99% of people who know the brand and at least 90% of this forum do not actually know what that is. The ones that do are usually in the vintage forum, they are watching the auctions, they are visiting the vintage shops, that circle is extremely small and often the transactions are happening with each other.

For something as ubiquitous as Rolex, it's like a new iphone or a pair of jordans. There's a status level to them but they are not actually rare in absolute numbers, just rare relative to the number of people that can buy them.

Most collectors never get to the level where actual absolute rarity in Rolex and Patek matters. Too much knowledge, research, scholarship is required. Let's not forget you need 5-100x the budget of a regular submariner that they are already having a hardtime getting.

Originally Posted by Manamana

126613 - 78,540 4 years
126619 - 11,464 4 years
Deep Sea James Cameron 88,571
ND old Sub 40 114060 - 153,437 over 10 years
Sub Date 116610 - 414,905 over 10 years

If there is demand Rolex will produce more, don't be fooled by low production or rarity claims

[lord91]

Originally Posted by Manamana

126613 - 78,540 4 years
126619 - 11,464 4 years
Deep Sea James Cameron 88,571
ND old Sub 40 114060 - 153,437 over 10 years
Sub Date 116610 - 414,905 over 10 years

If there is demand Rolex will produce more, don't be fooled by low production or rarity claims

Submariner 114o6o - only 8 years in production, not over 1o.

Submariner Date LN - only 1o years in production, not over 1o.

[GST15]

Sub. The Origional!

[Manamana]

Originally Posted by lord91

Submariner 114o6o - only 8 years in production, not over 1o.

Submariner Date LN - only 1o years in production, not over 1o.

I meant over a ten year production period, and yes 114060 over an 8 year production 2012-2020. Thanks for the correction. Deep Sea includes Black and JC also.

[herts9]

Date. I hate symmetry and I love the cyclops.

[Funkle]

[JRell]

Originally Posted by mgsooner

I tend to agree.

I mean what more does one need? They look fantastic.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by ocb

Haha hilarious both are Subs! Thanks! Gee, Rolex don’t say No Date how intriguing lol

So, if you look at the dial it actually says Oyster Perpetual Date, then way below that it just says Submariner, just like the no date version.

The date version is the Sub imagined by the vast majority when they hear the word, hence it makes much more sense to say Sub and no date Sub.

Nonsense.

Rolex markets one as a Submariner and the other as a Submariner Date - that is what they are, not what you think makes sense.

[ocb]

Originally Posted by Tools

Nonsense.

Rolex markets one as a Submariner and the other as a Submariner Date - that is what they are, not what you think makes sense.

Every single Sub, except the no date, has a date so that is the one that needs the further description. Ever heard someone say they got a full yellow gold Sub Date?

Common sense logic is not nonsense

Also, as I previously stated, Submariner sits by itself on the dial on all models. The description is oyster perpetual date, features apart from the model itself.

On the site it would be wrong to describe one a No Date because categories generally describe features and not the lack of.

In real parlance though saying the qualifier no date makes sense because it needs to be said far less often, a small fraction of the time.

Finally, both models are absolutely just Subs.