Dear Rolex: You are a Joke

[AzHadEnuf]

I have nothing to base this thought on, but is it possible Rolex is making Daytonas as fast as they can? Could an AD who gets say, 24 a year, sell 20 of them gray market, say 1k over MSRP. In return the gray market dealer continues to take a dozen slow movers off their shelves? The remaining 4 go to the AD's VIP's. If Rolex were only making a few of these a year why wouldn't they market to that? "The Daytona, manufacted in very limited quantities."

I hear lately that many AD's will not sell without the stickers being removed, cases engraved or hold warranty cards for a year or two. Again I have nothing to base this thought on but could they be protecting their market to the gray market dealers?

Just thinking aloud. Huge congratulations to all of you that have gotten 116500's. Great looking watch, I'd love to have one!

[pd999]

Not only a problem with the Daytona, but all steel sports models in general; try buying one in the UK

[CigarNarwhal]

Not to branch too far off the topic, but can we all honestly sit down and talk about the prices slowly creeping into insanity? Seriously, the cost of these watches has gotten so high I've literally started shopping other companies in which Rolex's new price range has encroached on, and most of the time the Rollie has lost. Not to mention Rolex pulling stock from smaller stores, and isolating into boutiques, what is going on? Have they finally lost it? I'm just glad it's more than me frustrated with their general business practices of late.

[Randy63]

Originally Posted by Smarties

I personally don't know anyone (even people who are not only rich, but filthy rich) willing to pay above msrp to acquire 116500.

I agree. The rich or even filthy rich don't get that way paying over MSRP (or even full MSRP).

To be honest I would be embarrassed to tell anyone I paid over MSRP for a ceramic Daytona. I believe the "status" comes from getting hooked up quickly at an AD for the list price.

I don't have that kind of juice, so no ceramic Daytona in my foreseeable future.

Randy

[Fleetlord]

The SS Daytona hasn't been a ubiquitous reference @ AD's for the last 25+ years...

Rolex limits distribution because they would rather them be sold in solid gold. Way more margin than the SS watch can provide.

They offer the SS Daytona as a tart to the dealers to use to entice other purchases so the "holy grail" can be attained by customers who can't stand being told no.

I think the SS Skydweller will be the same way....unless they are desperately buried in R&D cost for that movement and really need to recoup it by getting some more cash off of it...hence the cheaper case to make it more attainable....

In any event you know the 7-8yr wait time is just AD phooey. Same with 3-4 years...There are SS Daytonas being SOLD through dealers EVERY DAY...They are out there for sure...

[Kippers]

Originally Posted by AU_911tt

These marketing tactics are largely the reason Rolex is arguably the greatest brand in the world. It also is a big reason why your Rolex watch holds its value more than nearly any other watch.

Rolex could always take the approach of another brand, say Omega, and you'd have plenty of watches and poor resale.

I agree with what you say. If Rolex purposely keep resale value high, it allows them to increase their prices. Clever tactics and yes I agree the Daytona is the 'sacrificial' lamb or hype watch to increase sales elsewhere in the portfolio. It's also my belief the reason that Rolex introduced a 5 year warranty, that will help with resale values (positively) and justify their MSRP increases whilst pushing people away from the used market.



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[R G]

The market decides.

Rolex only get away with doing it because people buy in to frenzy-machine! Human nature, you want something more that you can't have.

Each to their own, but if people didn't obsess so much about getting one and approached it as if they get one when the time is right, I suspect there would be a far more organic process in obtaining a Daytona.

Rolex didn't roll out a whole load of models years back and pick the Daytona as 'the' rare piece. A little marketing (as they would with their whole range) a few old-school celebrity's seen wearing them and, I think, by chance, someone at Rolex saw a pattern emerge and jumped on it at the right time - the rest is history.

Could have easily been the Sub, which generally speaking, although nowhere near the Daytona, can still be difficult to source.

[Reinhard in SA]

Different country, but I was told 20 people on the list for a white dial daytonaC, but I can skip the list if I buy a SS non-sport model. Then they would order me one. I have no idea how long that would take though.

[toto]

Here is my expérience in France
I'am on the market for a Daytona C also. My AD closed some time ago so I lost the seniority I had.
I went to a Rolex boutique in Monaco and some AD in Nice and the answer was the same. Cannot put my name on the list. They are keeping their very few pieces for their oldest and goodest customers. If I buy something like 3 or 4 watches then maybe I can be on the list...
They seem to have very very few pieces a year. The woman I told to was telling me they haven't see a daytona C for months. Don't know if it's true though.
It's quite sad as everyone mentionned that you can't buy this watch if it's your first Rolex. Or your first purchase in an AD. Don't want to pay a premium for this.
I will try in Italy maybe they are more open minded.

I called my AD in north of France and he told me that even if I purchased some watches before, they won't put my name on the list. It's 5 years of wait and they don't take anymore name on that list.

[yannis]

Hey Seth,
Patek do the same on certain models. Although Rolex could make more money (in the short run) by means of mass production i believe the recipe they have utilized is very successful. I do not disagree with what you say Seth, but a Rolex is like gold in the market because of their very marketing techniques; the quality of products they make is also a considerable factor but Omega makes exceptional quality as well. Rolex are artists in creating demand. Which in turn means that if they turned to mass production like Omega the brand image would lower in the longer run. I know my view is over simplified but you get the picture. A price of used Omega vs a used Rolex is indicative of who is winning the game of demand. Although Omega fares better in recent years it still is behind Rolex on this aspect.
I mentioned Omega as an example only. I am a fan of Omegas by the way.

EDIT: Also Rolex is also mass producing but my understanding from the SS Sports watches is that supply is just enough to meet demand, whereas on certain models it is below demand (D-Blue, Daytona, BLNR etc.).

[Maxy]

Actually, I don't mind if Rolex plays this game with 1-2 models to keep up the image but I just don't hope they start doing this for every other watch. I hope SD43 with $3K additional pricing over SubC Date just gets a regular release. It will still take lot of customers for it to be a huge seller at that price and thickness. Just don't repeat this DayC game with it or even SS Sky-Dweller!!

[Sammk]

Isn't this exactly what Patek does? With a lot of its watches such as the steel nautilus? Is t this what AP does with its steel jumbo 15202? They all have one steel watch which isn't too difficult or time consuming to make that they can't fill the demand.... just a marketing gimmick and Rolex is no exception

Originally Posted by superdog

OK, sorry...I know I am going to piss off some people off with this. I really don't mean to. And I am sorry, but where else am I going to make this comment? I genuinely hope someone from Rolex sees this, even though I am quite certain they could not care less.

I am out of state on business. And after my conference, a buddy and I decide to walk the strip. Of course we see a Rolex store and decide to browse. We meet a really excellent sales guy. He was not overly knowledgable about certain details, but he was polite, attentive and definitely good at what he does.

I finally see the new WG Daytona in blue, which is really an astonishing watch. Anyone out there wearing this watch.... Wow. It is incredible. And krioke, Rolex does blue exceptionally well.

We talk watches for a bit and of course we talk about the new Daytona C. So unless you have a prior sales experience with this AD you are not even on the list. It is not going to happen. Never, ever. If you have a prior sales experience with them, you are likely waiting 7 to 8 years.

OK, wait..what?

As Padi says, this is not a new watch. It is easy for them to make. They can fill the demand, sell a ton of watches and make ton of money...just like most businesses want to do.

They do this for their marketing machine. They do this to create the mystique. And I am sorry, but I just don't respect this. Be a watch company. Make great watches, make people happy selling them great watches.

Do I respect their watches? Yes, they make incredible watches. But this type of sales gimmick just turns me off. Big time. And they have gone from the "tool watch" company to the shiny "look at me" watch company.

I really do mostly love what they put out. And much of what they have has a great redeeming quality to it. But I am just not on board with this.

And yes yes yes...I know, if I don't like it, I should not buy it. Ok, I won't, and I can get one if I want one. It is a forum about Rolex watches and I am making a comment. If you want to respond in kind, great, it is a forum and I will respect and appreciate your opinion.

Sorry to anyone I offend. Rant over.

[DJRikki]

I got my name added to my local ADs two ceramic lists without problem. I think ADs take liberties

[Verdi]

If they would have all the ss models available all the time they would sell fewer pm models. The highest return is on 2 tone, pm models. Rolex has it all under
control.

Keep calm and buy Rolex

This should be their new slogan.

[Smarties]

Even if your name is on the list, still may not be meaningful. They don't necessarily play by the book.

[Xerxes77]

I don't like Rolex because of many cause for long time!
But after I sow many other "high end" luxury watch (AP, UN, Breguet)and his big problems about the movement, accuracy, reability I decide to buy a Rolex Sub end I don't know if I am lucky or not but it's work perfect. Then I buy a Sky Dweller and work perfect!
So, in the end I only say Respect!

[landroverking]

7-8 years. IMO it should be 6-7 months.

[cedargrove]

Originally Posted by Maiden

I respect Rolex's right to restrict supply and demand and run their businees although 7-8 years is nuts. Is there a chance the AD might not have all the facts?

Yes, there is a strong chance the AD is wrong. It's not the first time someone got all worked up over a salesperson's comment.

[SeamasterGMT]

Let's not forget who runs Rolex and that their mandate and main objective is to perpetuate the prestige of the brand.

[BLACKHORSE 6]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

We have to accept Rolex as it is.

Rolex and indeed the entire Swiss watch industry was nearly, by whisker, yea verily, wiped out in the Eighties.

It was then that Rolex had to reinvent themselves from a fine watch company to a luxury watch company just to survive.

That model has worked for them and much of the remaining Swiss watch industry.

Mystique and the perception of scarcity are part and parcel of the luxury industries.

Now the industry worldwide is facing a similar crisis.

It's hardly likely that Rolex is going to change strategies now.

We talk an awful lot about Rolex and tool watches here on TRF, but if you call up some of those threads about the new SD, it is easy to see that our members don't really view any Rolex as a tool watch. Almost every post about the SD is about fashion and how much the watch will be worth down the road.

I don't think a single person mentioned the specifications of the watch, except as an aside.

Whether or not anyone likes it, the way Rolex does business is the very reason they are so sought after.

This

[BLACKHORSE 6]

While I'm sure that Rolex knows about the hype surrounding the SS Daytona and somewhat encourages it to help the brand, I think that the real answer has to do with their margins on SS versus PM.

It wouldn't be that hard to write an optimization program that maximizes profits given all the inputs and raw data available to a company like Rolex. I'm sure they know the exact ratio of SS/TT/PM that they need to manufacture to make the most money.

[capote]

I think Hans Wilsdorf would be proud of Rolex marketing. My take is that the Daytona was a dog back in the day, a hopeless manual wind chronograph, unwanted, impossible to sell, always eclipsed by the more popular models. When Rolex introduced the modern Zenith Daytona they probably did not produce a lot based on the poor history of the watch, when it later by chance got hyped they did not increase output, maybe even lowered it to create a mystery about the watch. In other words, I don't think that they aimed for this, but when opportunity knocked they jumped on it, like Hans did when he heard about Mercedes back in the early days. Just my speculation.

[brandrea]

So get on the wait list Seth, it's already been out a year

I hear you, and it's frustrating to say the least. Often though, it can come down to timing. I had a chance at a black dial last summer only and I wasn't on a wait list, just a random drop by my AD.

[phez]

Am I missing something here about the long waiting lists?

If Rolex is restricting supply, surely the only ones who benefit are Grey Sellers and whoever supplies them with the watch? Certainly not Rolex, nor genuine WIS.

If Rolex increased production they would make more income and the Grey dealers less and those who genuinely want the watch, not just to flip it, would get it sooner

[DeeTee]

Originally Posted by Dartmouthbrian

In marketing it's called a scarcity model. Supreme, Nike, Adidas, Nintendo, Sony, Apple, Microsoft etc etc etc all do it. It works, it drives consumer demand, but most importantly it keeps value high.

Its a good thing Seth. The fact that they can play with your emotions means they are doing their job right.

[DeeTee]

Originally Posted by phez

Am I missing something here about the long waiting lists?

If Rolex is restricting supply, surely the only ones who benefit are Grey Sellers and whoever supplies them with the watch? Certainly not Rolex, nor genuine WIS.

If Rolex increased production they would make more income and the Grey dealers less and those who genuinely want the watch, not just to flip it, would get it sooner

Rolex is making a gang of cash on these things.
For an AD to receive the D500, they have to take a whole box of DateJusts, PM models, etc.

[Rolex addict]

I love ya, brother, but got to call you out on this one. You just sold a fully stickered Kermit for a profit. Why? Because of the demand. Rolex can only make so many watches per year and keep quality. It's our fault, me included, that are making such a big deal over the Daytona. As soon as the craze is over, the price will settle to MSRP. The Daytona has always been somewhat elusive. This version will be no different.

[slide13]

I'm 2 years into a 12 year wait for a custom pool cue. I once waited 8 years for a custom pocket knife order. Daytona wait doesn't shock me. I have no problem with Rolex protecting what they've built with the Daytona. Rolex takes a very long view in business. Yes, they could flood the market with Daytonas probably and make a quick chunk of cash, but then what. I think the Daytona popularity resides in large part in its mystique. You flood the market you ruin that mystique. Rolex is a business and they're doing what they see as best for their business for the next quarter century, not the next fiscal quarter.

[Verdi]

Life is too short. I don't have years to wait for a watch. This is my motto.

I'd rather buy pre-owned or move on to another brand/model. Also, paying premium is not cup of tea.

[jbsmith]

Wow! Glad I'm not a fan of the Daytona. Beautiful watch, just too small for my liking. Good luck to those wanting one though. Even if I did want one, I would not pay what they are going for right now. I respect businesses that are allowed to do as they please wrt production numbers of watches, but I also respect the consumers that can make the decision to buy or not buy a particular brand/model.