Thin case 1665 DRSD

[4rnold]

Originally Posted by swaini3

it is dealer's responsibility. He describes the watch, he puts it on his website and people are buying from him etc. Buyers have nothing to do with whether the watches offered are on consignemnt or not. From a buyer's point of view, the transaction is the same as other watches bought/owned by the dealer.
there is not one website that offers different T&c'S for buyers of consignment pieces.

Thx for the info

[4rnold]

Lets not picture the dealer as a fraud. He made a huge but human mistake. A mistake that should not have happened yes. But that is what mistakes are.

I think his intentions arent bad. He responds on this forum, he is available. He recognizes his mistake and apologizes.
I hope he understands that he should look carefully at his prices also.Besides the case being fake. The polish was not ok anyway. Even if the case was geruine. The price was very high.

I think he is punished enough by his own mistake and he wont sleep well tonight. We dont have to put him under the ground.

[HERITAGE82]

Originally Posted by 4rnold

Lets not picture the dealer as a fraud. He made a huge but human mistake. A mistake that should not have happened yes. But that is what mistakes are.

I think his intentions arent bad. He responds on this forum, he is available. He recognizes his mistake and apologizes.
I hope he understands that he should look carefully at his prices also.Besides the case being fake. The polish was not ok anyway. Even if the case was geruine. The price was very high.

I think he is punished enough by his own mistake and he wont sleep well tonight. We dont have to put him under the ground.

Great post and keeps the human factor present.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by saxo3

We are both right. The seller only deleted a second (older) advertisement, which I quoted.
The newest one (you saw), posted on 17 February 2023, is still there: a video showing 3 watches including the 1665 thin case Mk2 for 110'000 €.

It's no longer posted for sale.

[Noahgraph]

I am happy to see some keeping in account that there is a business on the line and a person who started this business out of passion. It strikes me that some people immediately go for their pitchforks and go out on a hunt.

I actually met the owner of Wrist Icons a few weeks ago on a Red Bar event where he showed up as an enthousiast and also a very friendly, down to earth and passionate individual who is trying to build a brand. Building a brand an reputation comes with trial and error, and even though this is quite a mistake, I think it is important to keep the human aspect into consideration.

Niels

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

It's no longer posted for sale.

I know and observed that it was removed (on Instagram) after my post #83 in this thread.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Noahgraph

I am happy to see some keeping in account that there is a business on the line and a person who started this business out of passion. It strikes me that some people immediately go for their pitchforks and go out on a hunt.

I actually met the owner of Wrist Icons a few weeks ago on a Red Bar event where he showed up as an enthousiast and also a very friendly, down to earth and passionate individual who is trying to build a brand. Building a brand an reputation comes with trial and error, and even though this is quite a mistake, I think it is important to keep the human aspect into consideration.

Niels

Apparently you have a personal connection to the seller, and others would like to cut him a break, but I have no reason to root for him to succeed. Hopefully he will learn from this and really start to study and develop deep knowledge, but I doubt it. Passion is fine, but knowledge, expertise, and credibility are more important to me. I'd prefer to have professional dealers who really take it seriously, devoting themselves to it the same way I do to my profession. When one of them is exposed as being a dilettante, I see no reason to defend them.

I'm sure the world would survive with one less mediocre watch dealer. I have been following this seller off and on for several years through his posts on forums; every time he is exposed, he whines about forum members treating him badly. TBH, as a collector I wouldn't be heartbroken if he (like many other watch dealers) chose a different line of work. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the proliferation of online vintage watch dealers has been ridiculous, and maybe not all should succeed.

[dhknola]

I'm with Dan here. If you want to get in to one of the most nuanced, mine-field laden, difficult games in the world, then start memorizing all the tiny details that a vintage Rolex expert would have to have to attempt to deal in elite vintage Rolex.
If you are selling 6 figure old watches, you should no just about everything and take your lumps when you miss.

[HERITAGE82]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Apparently you have a personal connection to the seller, and others would like to cut him a break, but I have no reason to root for him to succeed. Hopefully he will learn from this and really start to study and develop deep knowledge, but I doubt it. Passion is fine, but knowledge, expertise, and credibility are more important to me. I'd prefer to have professional dealers who really take it seriously, devoting themselves to it the same way I do to my profession. When one of them is exposed as being a dilettante, I see no reason to defend them.

I'm sure the world would survive with one less mediocre watch dealer. I have been following this seller off and on for several years through his posts on forums; every time he is exposed, he whines about forum members treating him badly. TBH, as a collector I wouldn't be heartbroken if he (like many other watch dealers) chose a different line of work. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the proliferation of online vintage watch dealers has been ridiculous, and maybe not all should succeed.

Originally Posted by dhknola

I'm with Dan here. If you want to get in to one of the most nuanced, mine-field laden, difficult games in the world, then start memorizing all the tiny details that a vintage Rolex expert would have to have to attempt to deal in elite vintage Rolex.
If you are selling 6 figure old watches, you should no just about everything and take your lumps when you miss.

The guy has taken his lumps for sure & will now need to rebuild his brand.
I would have to say that most if not all vintage Rolex dealers started out as enthusiast or else they would not have ended up in this niche profession. Expertise only comes through time and constant education of the information available. It is sad to hear people say that new sellers shouldn't emerge since they do not have the knowledge or experience. I guess anyone venturing into this line of business must assume the risk of losing their reputation due to an error or lapse in doing their due diligence.

I do not know the seller nor am I in the market, but feel that whenever a vintage dealer has an issue they are pretty much blackballed from being a trusted seller ever gain. I firmly believe and have always felt that as buyers we are responsible for doing our due diligence and vetting any watch we want to purchase.

[Noahgraph]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Apparently you have a personal connection to the seller, and others would like to cut him a break, but I have no reason to root for him to succeed. Hopefully he will learn from this and really start to study and develop deep knowledge, but I doubt it. Passion is fine, but knowledge, expertise, and credibility are more important to me. I'd prefer to have professional dealers who really take it seriously, devoting themselves to it the same way I do to my profession. When one of them is exposed as being a dilettante, I see no reason to defend them.

I'm sure the world would survive with one less mediocre watch dealer. I have been following this seller off and on for several years through his posts on forums; every time he is exposed, he whines about forum members treating him badly. TBH, as a collector I wouldn't be heartbroken if he (like many other watch dealers) chose a different line of work. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the proliferation of online vintage watch dealers has been ridiculous, and maybe not all should succeed.

Hi Dan. I agree with everhthing you say. Also I have no personal connection with the guy other than 20 minutes of watch talk during a Red Bar event. I was just rooting for the human side as I thought this was a ‘rookie mistake’.

In all honesty I was unknown with earlier ‘problems’ caused by this dealer, and I am sorry to hear that. On that note I don’t think you are too harsh.

Cheers.

[MrBlobby]

Would it help if he was made to wear a sandwich board around watches and wonders with “I tried to rip someone off but I couldn’t fool rolexforums.com”? And then maybe pledge members could throw wet sponges at him?

[hutch300]

What I now worry about is the owner will get this watch back with new knowledge that its not what he thought. What happens next? It finds a new home somewhere else? Is that collector an honorable person?

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by swaini3

Here is one I found online (just for general education): https://consignwatch.com/consignment...and-conditons/

Thanks for this but its not clear (to me anyway upon first brush) if the liability is a pass through. In other words, the dealer has a back to back contract with the vendor of the watch.

In practice, if the watch is found to be counterfeit, say the dealer gets sued, the dealer sues the vendor and only if the claim against the vendor is successful, does the dealer pass on the proceeds to the customer. Is that what happens? As you can imagine, its hard to seek claim for monies that one does not have. Its very different to suing Rolex, whom receives the majority (less any rebates, third party fees) of the purchase price.

Frankly, the dealer in question in this thread should answer this - he would or should know the intricaces of these arrangements.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by MrBlobby

Would it help if he was made to wear a sandwich board around watches and wonders with “I tried to rip someone off but I couldn’t fool rolexforums.com”? And then maybe pledge members could throw wet sponges at him?

Ok you're a kind and forgiving person, we get it. And we are all evil critics. Shame on us.

[KY..]

Well this has been an interesting thread.
My biggest take away is trust non of the trusted watch sellers/dealers.
Because after all, shit happens and they can make a mistake and accidentally sell me a fake watch.
That’s fine, first world problem I would say.
Don’t arbiltrarilly trust watch dealers just because you think they should be good enough to know what they are selling.
So I will trust my own eyes, and if in doubt post photos here or on VRF of any potential spooky nail-bitter purchases.
Got it, I’m good with doing it this way so I can blame myself if I screw up instead of some poor innocent dealer…

[ILuvSubs]

Thank you Jose @pereztroika / @perezscope for your attention to detail and rescuing the OP from a big pocket mistake.

We appreciate your detective work on TRF and social media / Instagram, in uncovering naive or unscrupulous dealers / auction houses, as well as your historical deep dives (pun intended) into various references.