FP Journe Appreciation Thread, an Evolution.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by dchang81

Not really sure you can compare Laine and Voutilainen numbers with Journe. That's like comparing apples with socks.

It's an overall X qty made versus what is for sale in the used marketplace. It's good we know which brands tend to be for speculators, versus those for true enthusiasts.

Agreed, it is challenging to compare a normal custom Kari or normal custom Laine to an off-the-shelf FPJ. With the first two, you personally help 'create' it wth the manufacturer / watchmaker, the FPJ is a set design you get what they make.

To keep FPJ's products 'sticky' to the owner, perhaps FPJ should change his business model to be more like Kari and Laine? FPJ claims to make only a few hundred a year, so changing to a more personalized business model should be fairly easy.

[GB-man]

Highly unlikely Journe wants to change off his highly profitable business model to emulate businesses that probably barely turn a profit.

These three makers are just worlds apart in what they do. Laine being someone who customizes very basic watches with outsourced movements and movement designs. Don’t get me wrong I’d buy a Laine for sure. I like the classic styling and it’s cool that torsti will work on your watch himself which is not the case with Journe or Kari. The value proposition is compelling at around 10k dollars. Would be funny to hand people on the street a Laine and a Dufour and then explain why the Dufour is worth 100x as much lol you see those shiny angles on the edges of the movement? Umm hold on let me grab my glasses, yes I see them. Those are done by hand with wooden sticks. Okay…lol


KV is very high end finishing and very low production with full customization and long lead times. Also higher end complications available. I think money is the only thing stopping most watch nerds from ordering a KV. Just gorgeous execution and a go to for a bespoke HH watch without entering the unobtainable insanity of RWS etc. With that said KVs strengths to me are more about the execution than the ingenuity of the designs. KV like Laine cut his teeth decorating outsourced movements before releasing the Vingt-8 (2011).

Journe is mostly machine finished in comparison to something like a KV but the beauty is in the design of both of the movement and the dial side aesthetic. Very few watchmakers have journes knack for designing dial side first and then creating the movement that achieves the dial side vision. Journe has never been one to focus on finishing and his early watches look more like an engineering student made them than a high end watchmaker. The movements were FP’s own designs from day 1.

[RyanO]

Just returned from a Journe event and didn’t sense any of the fun for the exits panic in the air that these YouTube personalities are going on about.

Lovely event.




This skeletonized minute repeater is an absolute grail, perhaps one day!


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[enjoythemusic]

Agree 100% GB Man. And yeah, pretty much no one on the streets... you know.

We are an 'interesting' bunch aren't we

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by tigerpac

Rexhep wasn't there during the RQ. Older resonance though yes. So not sure which is more difficult for the watchmakers. Both amazing pieces regardless.

Always equating the RQ with Resonance. :-)

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by RyanO

Just returned from a Journe event and didn’t sense any of the fun for the exits panic in the air that these YouTube personalities are going on about.

Lovely event.




This skeletonized minute repeater is an absolute grail, perhaps one day!


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The sapphire dial RM is definitely a grail level piece. And it is a "bargain" compares to the black label. I asked the boutique how come the black label is 10+% more than the sapphire dial and the first reaction was surprise from him too.

What event is this? The wine selection seems to be at a very different level. It must be for the VVVVVIPs

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Highly unlikely Journe wants to change off his highly profitable business model to emulate businesses that probably barely turn a profit.

These three makers are just worlds apart in what they do. Laine being someone who customizes very basic watches with outsourced movements and movement designs. Don’t get me wrong I’d buy a Laine for sure. I like the classic styling and it’s cool that torsti will work on your watch himself which is not the case with Journe or Kari. The value proposition is compelling at around 10k dollars. Would be funny to hand people on the street a Laine and a Dufour and then explain why the Dufour is worth 100x as much lol you see those shiny angles on the edges of the movement? Umm hold on let me grab my glasses, yes I see them. Those are done by hand with wooden sticks. Okay…lol


KV is very high end finishing and very low production with full customization and long lead times. Also higher end complications available. I think money is the only thing stopping most watch nerds from ordering a KV. Just gorgeous execution and a go to for a bespoke HH watch without entering the unobtainable insanity of RWS etc. With that said KVs strengths to me are more about the execution than the ingenuity of the designs. KV like Laine cut his teeth decorating outsourced movements before releasing the Vingt-8 (2011).

Journe is mostly machine finished in comparison to something like a KV but the beauty is in the design of both of the movement and the dial side aesthetic. Very few watchmakers have journes knack for designing dial side first and then creating the movement that achieves the dial side vision. Journe has never been one to focus on finishing and his early watches look more like an engineering student made them than a high end watchmaker. The movements were FP’s own designs from day 1.

Very well said. Just want to add my 2 cents as I love both KV and FPJ. And admire Laine very much.

Voutilainen is along the artisanal, well finished line. The Vingt-8's natural escapement is a piece of engineering marvel. However the collection nowadays is based on the "simple" Vingt-8. Trying to get a "complication" is almost impossible other than the world timer. (Please correct me if I am wrong but I tried and no success) So I do not see how a collector can have 10+ KV in his collection since there is only so many dial/case combinations one person can have.

As for FPJ, the focus is on innovation and complications. A collector can slowly move up the chain from a simple CS/CB to an AST/FFC. (BTW, AST does have certain bespoke options for the dial and case) And I don't think any FPJ collector would think that he is getting into the brand for its artisanal hand finish. Each movement designs are innovative and always have a good reason behind the design. Just reading about the length he went into to get the best accuracy out of the Chronometre Optium is a perfect example.

It is really apple to orange. I think every collector can love both brands for what they aimed to achieve. (I know I am and hence my financial trouble )

[RyanO]

Originally Posted by llngoc

The sapphire dial RM is definitely a grail level piece. And it is a "bargain" compares to the black label. I asked the boutique how come the black label is 10+% more than the sapphire dial and the first reaction was surprise from him too.

What event is this? The wine selection seems to be at a very different level. It must be for the VVVVVIPs

It was an event for collectors to share their own wines from their collection personal, was really nice and everyone was very generous with the wines they shared.


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[llngoc]

Originally Posted by RyanO

It was an event for collectors to share their own wines from their collection personal, was really nice and everyone was very generous with the wines they shared.


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That sounds like a really nice event.

[llngoc]

Wearing my special birthday watch to a special birthday meal.

[westoque]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Wearing my special birthday watch to a special birthday meal.

That looks amazing!


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[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Elegante is not in the 800-1000 pieces per year which got throw around a lot. The quoted production number is for mechanical pieces only. I think someone mentioned that there is another 600-700 pieces of Elegante per year on this forum before.

I will not be surprised that more entry level models like CS or Automatique are coming into the secondary market. They are probably bought by a lot of people entering the brand under the presumption that when they do not like it (or get tired of it), they can always sell for a profit. And as they see the profits getting slimmer, they may want to bail first.

Unfortunately the waitlist at the boutique is still quite long for anything. I was surprised that the wait for a CO is now 10+ years due to very low production. Probably more production is diverted to very popular ones like RQ. As both are complicated and the CO may even be more so. (I think someone just posted that Rexhep was working on RQ but not "allowed" to work on CO)

10 years for the Optimum!?? Are you sure about that?

Btw it was me who mentioned that about Rexhepi. I met him personally at Hourglass in Tokyo and we had a chat about my BL CO. He said he never got to work on it though he did work on the Resonance.

Also the servicing for a Optimum is more expensive than the Resonance...

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

10 years for the Optimum!?? Are you sure about that?

Btw it was me who mentioned that about Rexhepi. I met him personally at Hourglass in Tokyo and we had a chat about my BL CO. He said he never got to work on it though he did work on the Resonance.

Also the servicing for a Optimum is more expensive than the Resonance...

It was from the boutique which I got this information so I have no reason to doubt it. Everyone at the table was surprised too. I feel that the CO is probably a sleeper hit so production is shifted to other complications.

Yes, when I was replying, I forgot who mentioned about the Rexhep meeting and now I remember. The CO is one of those “if you know, you know” type. I never realized about all the details which went into the movement design until I read more about it.

Looking forward to one day receiving my piece.

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by llngoc

It was from the boutique which I got this information so I have no reason to doubt it. Everyone at the table was surprised too. I feel that the CO is probably a sleeper hit so production is shifted to other complications.

Yes, when I was replying, I forgot who mentioned about the Rexhep meeting and now I remember. The CO is one of those “if you know, you know” type. I never realized about all the details which went into the movement design until I read more about it.

Looking forward to one day receiving my piece.

Wow ok, didn't know it was that long now...I hope you get yours sooner than that! I have a feeling you will!!

Btw do you have any info regarding the "boutique edition"? Im reading that its basically discontinued now? Its not even on the latest catalogue, so not sure if you have any insight as to which Optimum you are able to actually order.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

Wow ok, didn't know it was that long now...I hope you get yours sooner than that! I have a feeling you will!!

Btw do you have any info regarding the "boutique edition"? Im reading that its basically discontinued now? Its not even on the latest catalogue, so not sure if you have any insight as to which Optimum you are able to actually order.

I had a boutique edition on my wishlist until about six months ago. And I have not heard that the boutique edition was going to be discontinued when I made the change.

I do see the BE CO on the website though. But I will ask my boutique contact next time I am in touch.

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by llngoc

I had a boutique edition on my wishlist until about six months ago. And I have not heard that the boutique edition was going to be discontinued when I made the change.

I do see the BE CO on the website though. But I will ask my boutique contact next time I am in touch.

Thanks bud, does it mean you removed it from your list now?

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

Thanks bud, does it mean you removed it from your list now?

I was inspired by you and switched my wishlist to a BLCO.

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by llngoc

I was inspired by you and switched my wishlist to a BLCO.

Ah ok haha Im happy I was able to provide some inspiration to someone! Best of luck!!

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by westoque

That looks amazing!


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This is a special piece and it also have special meaning for me. I was down with Covid on my birthday when I received the good news for my allocation. So I count this as a birthday watch even though delivery was months after my birthday.

[GB-man]

[Bearxj86]

New year new strap(s)




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[dakkonmc]

Originally Posted by Bearxj86

New year new strap(s)




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Absolutely stunning watch

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[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Bearxj86

New year new strap(s)




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Really nice straps. Where did you get this?

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Really nice straps. Where did you get this?

The Journe is a bespoke watch strap I had made with Alex Crown (atelier is Jean Rousseau)

The green rubber strap for the 15510st is from Rubber B.

[RyanO]

Originally Posted by Bearxj86

New year new strap(s)




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Have to add on her, gorgeous strap on the RQ. Hoping to for an allocation in the next year or two, in that combination. Enjoy it mate, and please don’t hesitate to post more photos!


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[subtona]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

It's an overall X qty made versus what is for sale in the used marketplace. It's good we know which brands tend to be for speculators, versus those for true enthusiasts.

Agreed, it is challenging to compare a normal custom Kari or normal custom Laine to an off-the-shelf FPJ. With the first two, you personally help 'create' it wth the manufacturer / watchmaker, the FPJ is a set design you get what they make.

To keep FPJ's products 'sticky' to the owner, perhaps FPJ should change his business model to be more like Kari and Laine? FPJ claims to make only a few hundred a year, so changing to a more personalized business model should be fairly easy.

Interesting conversation.


One of the things that always concerned me about the brands that allowed customer input in design, will it undermine long term collector appreciation ?

The appreciation for watches among different manufacturers that stand the test of time is commonly those pieces that have a long history of slow and minimal variation through the decades.

In the end I guess I am one to say, let the watchmaker create the work, it’s their profession. There have been more than a few occasions that I was critical about a manufacturer design choice only to appreciate and understand it years later.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by subtona

In the end I guess I am one to say, let the watchmaker create the work, it’s their profession. There have been more than a few occasions that I was critical about a manufacturer design choice only to appreciate and understand it years later.

Am all for that, plus in the end the market decides. Fashion comes and goes, so some designs 'come into fashion' lover time. This is why i keep sunglasses over the decades as we all know 'current sunglasses fashion' ebbs and flows. You are right, too, as classics like the Rolex Submariner will never go out of style... and Ray Ban Aviators.

The 'better clients' get their custom pieces made

If you want something custom, there are quite a few independents that will handcraft such designs. My wife, for example, designed a timepiece and she really loves it because it is hers and not something 'off-the-shelf' that you can see others wearing at GTGs / etc. To be fair, she does have a flair for style

PS: Is it me, or have you also noticed more timepiece manufacturers seem to be 'rebooting' 1970s designs?

[soulsea]

Somehow mrs soulsea got hers firs ... which is how it should be. :)

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Bearxj86

New year new strap(s)




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such a nice pair

[soulsea]

The one off Elegante auction for breast cancer research set a world record price for a quartz watch last night ... I heard it went for $420k.