Cellini or Lange Saxonia?

[Onikage]

The lack of Cellini glamour shots says it all really.

[jed11]

Originally Posted by Onikage

The lack of Cellini glamour shots says it all really.

Excellent observation!

[justcruisin]

I must say...this thread started out with some interest in the Cellini as a dress watch, to see if it could be “dressed” down for more casual wearing and searches yielded this thread here. Suggestions to look at the ALS made for an interesting few hours of YouTube and other research...and since we are shutdown (and sheltered in place) for the holidays, was the best few hours I’ve had this week.

I confirmed that my AD nearby had both ALS and Glashutte and went to give them a try. With my pretty small wrists, the Lange 1 and the smaller Saxonia Thin fit extremely well. My heart wants the Lange 1 (white gold/black dial/moonphase), but the platinum/light grey (silver?) dial has its own appeal as well. 20% without even asking on the Lange 1 pieces. It really doesn’t make sense to buy these even at 20% off based on what I see grey/pre-owned. They didn’t have the Saxonia Outsized Date in stock yet, which might be a good “in-between.” I tried the Glashutte Original PanoReserve to compare against the Lange 1...but it was slightly bigger and the Lange 1 felt perfect on my wrist. As a chronograph/complication lover, the Saxonia Thin just felt too simple and too thin. It might take me a year or two to pull the trigger on a Lange 1, but so far it has replaced the SS Daytona as the grail watch...

Random check shows Tourneau has the RG Moonphase Lange 1 for 24k - 20% off and a YG Lange 1 for 18k. May have to be careful not he polish front. Will also reach out to the poster up thread who has a great pre-owned dealer near them.

Photos below for those looking:

25D86395-59BD-433A-89BE-14B4EA0040CC.jpeg

8944BE7A-DF82-4419-9429-DD54AD217291.jpeg

60703436-F3A1-4100-BBC5-A893B0E7DA39.jpeg

604CDAC7-ECDD-4A59-BD0E-38AF1E51D792.jpeg

A99C3457-F85F-4FD1-967A-35DEFEC28B7D.jpeg

Bonus - after some more discussion about other watch interests, got put on a waitlist for an Omega Ed White 321 (6 months-2 years) with $4,500 deposit. They haven’t even received one yet...

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by justcruisin

My heart wants the Lange 1 (white gold/black dial/moonphase)

Attachment 1194036

That's the one I'm getting someday. My Saxonia moonphase will hold me over.

[jjnd08]

Originally Posted by justcruisin

I must say...this thread started out with some interest in the Cellini as a dress watch, to see if it could be “dressed” down for more casual wearing and searches yielded this thread here. Suggestions to look at the ALS made for an interesting few hours of YouTube and other research...and since we are shutdown (and sheltered in place) for the holidays, was the best few hours I’ve had this week.

I confirmed that my AD nearby had both ALS and Glashutte and went to give them a try. With my pretty small wrists, the Lange 1 and the smaller Saxonia Thin fit extremely well. My heart wants the Lange 1 (white gold/black dial/moonphase), but the platinum/light grey (silver?) dial has its own appeal as well. 20% without even asking on the Lange 1 pieces. It really doesn’t make sense to buy these even at 20% off based on what I see grey/pre-owned. They didn’t have the Saxonia Outsized Date in stock yet, which might be a good “in-between.” I tried the Glashutte Original PanoReserve to compare against the Lange 1...but it was slightly bigger and the Lange 1 felt perfect on my wrist. As a chronograph/complication lover, the Saxonia Thin just felt too simple and too thin. It might take me a year or two to pull the trigger on a Lange 1, but so far it has replaced the SS Daytona as the grail watch...

Random check shows Tourneau has the RG Moonphase Lange 1 for 24k - 20% off and a YG Lange 1 for 18k. May have to be careful not he polish front. Will also reach out to the poster up thread who has a great pre-owned dealer near them.

I can agree with your thoughts on the Glashutte. I borrowed my buddy's panoreserve this past spring, and it's beautiful, but it's slightly larger and definitely thicker than the Lange 1.

[willywatch]

Lange watches are in a different class to anything made by Rolex.They are without a
doubt the finest factory built watches in the world right now.Even Patek take second
place to Lange,any watch expert will tell you this.To compare a Rolex with a Lange
is ridiculous in the extreme.

[chloebear]

Originally Posted by justcruisin

I must say...this thread started out with some interest in the Cellini as a dress watch, to see if it could be “dressed” down for more casual wearing and searches yielded this thread here. Suggestions to look at the ALS made for an interesting few hours of YouTube and other research...and since we are shutdown (and sheltered in place) for the holidays, was the best few hours I’ve had this week.

I confirmed that my AD nearby had both ALS and Glashutte and went to give them a try. With my pretty small wrists, the Lange 1 and the smaller Saxonia Thin fit extremely well. My heart wants the Lange 1 (white gold/black dial/moonphase), but the platinum/light grey (silver?) dial has its own appeal as well. 20% without even asking on the Lange 1 pieces. It really doesn’t make sense to buy these even at 20% off based on what I see grey/pre-owned. They didn’t have the Saxonia Outsized Date in stock yet, which might be a good “in-between.” I tried the Glashutte Original PanoReserve to compare against the Lange 1...but it was slightly bigger and the Lange 1 felt perfect on my wrist. As a chronograph/complication lover, the Saxonia Thin just felt too simple and too thin. It might take me a year or two to pull the trigger on a Lange 1, but so far it has replaced the SS Daytona as the grail watch...

Random check shows Tourneau has the RG Moonphase Lange 1 for 24k - 20% off and a YG Lange 1 for 18k. May have to be careful not he polish front. Will also reach out to the poster up thread who has a great pre-owned dealer near them.

Photos below for those looking:

Attachment 1194036

Attachment 1194037

Attachment 1194038

Attachment 1194039

Attachment 1194040

Bonus - after some more discussion about other watch interests, got put on a waitlist for an Omega Ed White 321 (6 months-2 years) with $4,500 deposit. They haven’t even received one yet...

Hey, thanks for joining the conversation. I hope the info in the post was helpful. And thank you for sharing such excellent pictures. keep us updated on your search for a Lange!

[jltait]

Not my photos but the Cellini is a sharp looking watch. If Rolex upped their movement finishing, gold rotor, stripes and all that they could have been a contender.



This chocolate dial dual time is something.

[chloebear]

Originally Posted by willywatch

Lange watches are in a different class to anything made by Rolex.They are without a
doubt the finest factory built watches in the world right now.Even Patek take second
place to Lange,any watch expert will tell you this.To compare a Rolex with a Lange
is ridiculous in the extreme.

I agree with your comment. I'm more cross shopping than comparing, but I understand your point. In this interview with the Lange CEO at the 7:45 mark I would say he's describing exactly where I'm at. It definitely takes a number of years in the watch game to appreciate the high end of the market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsx78Cb4vu8

[le_baron]

Originally Posted by CFR

it took a really long time to track down the names of the case manufacturers that correspond with their respective marks. That info was not easy to get! Here's what we have so far, which I think covers all of Lange's case manufacturers unless someone reports seeing yet another manufacturer's mark on their caseback:

CO=Centror (AP)
db=Donzé-Baume (Richemont)
FT=Efteor
SUG=SUG (Sinn)

This is amazing. Can you point me to your sources for this information? I am particularly interested in a source for the proposition that Langes stamped "CO" were made by AP. My Lange 1 has the CO stamp

Originally Posted by CFR

I'm not sure if we still see "CO" and "FT" on newer Langes -- haven't looked into that.

I have a current generation Lange 1, originally sold by the NYC boutique in 2017, with the CO stamp. So at least some of the recent models have the CO stamp.

[KonradvonMarburg]

Originally Posted by chloebear

Gents,

I'm in the process of simplifying my collection. I've gone from 5 steel sports Rolexes down to an Explorer. I'm looking to add a nice dress watch and I have it down to the Rolex Cellini Time or the A. Lange Saxonia Thin. Both watches meet my criteria of:

39mm or below
No date
Precious metal

I've tried on the Cellini and absolutely loved it. Unfortunately I've not seen the Lange in person yet. I won't purchase one until I've tried on both.

Which do you think pairs better with the Explorer? If anyone owns these watches, can you comment on what you like or dislike about them?

They both have an MSRP of around $15,000 in the US. If anyone has some real world advice on the best place to purchase and pricing information, I'd really appreciate it. I'm guessing either of these can be had at a decent discount because they are not steel sports watches.

As always, pictures and thoughtful advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Mike

Lange

[chloebear]

In hindsight I should have put a poll on here. Feels like it's about 8 to 1 Lange and we are on a Rolex forum.

[MaitreRobinton]

Hello

i own a Explorer (and a sub) for sport watch style, and a Panomatic Lunar and a Cellini date for dress watch style. There are perfectly complementary.

The Cellini watch best of the two worlds : a real hommage to classical horology (guilloché, date hand, ...) and reliability by Rolex.
Away of its comfort, beauty, finition and precision, the coolest thing is that wearing a Cellini means that you can go outside the rules and wear a watch not for what's other awaits, but what it offers to you.

[Krash]

That’s the wrong Lange. I’d go with the Cellini.

If it were the Lange 1815 with small seconds, then that would be my choice by a mile.




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[JohnGingerwood]

Lange

[Max 66]

If you look for a versatile dress watch A. Lange & Sohne is the answer.
My preference goes to 1815, followed by Saxonia Thin and Saxonia small second at third place.
These watches, particularly if you choose the WG versions, can be also a daily watch; it is sufficient to replace the black alligator with a grey suede strap or with a brown leather strap. 

[peterskinner]

I’ve owned three late model Cellinis. Lovely watches with a degree of resilience missing from their rivals. Not to mention such mundane things as servicing and water resistance (screw down crowns).
However, what I also learnt was that this forum is sadly biased and determined never to give the Cellini a chance. It’s the worst place to look for informed advice, because it show little sign of being based on real knowledge. Which is best derived from ownership and use.
Incidentally, I like and admire Lange, but you will probably have a far more relaxing time with the Rolex. But in general, Cellini buyers don’t read forums.

[IanV8]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

I’ve owned three late model Cellinis. Lovely watches with a degree of resilience missing from their rivals. Not to mention such mundane things as servicing and water resistance (screw down crowns).
However, what I also learnt was that this forum is sadly biased and determined never to give the Cellini a chance. It’s the worst place to look for informed advice, because it show little sign of being based on real knowledge. Which is best derived from ownership and use.
Incidentally, I like and admire Lange, but you will probably have a far more relaxing time with the Rolex. But in general, Cellini buyers don’t read forums.

I do! Loved my Moon Phase from the moment I put it on my wrist.

[jed11]

Sorry to post another pic...



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[EDL7]

Looking at the images here..Lange seems more frumpy and formal..Cellini more fun..
One for the more "mature" crowd..
The other for a more fun loving and perhaps.. younger set of mind..
Though the blue goldstone version of this Lange..
Seems to defy what I just said..and would be the one I would buy..
https://www.escapementmagazine.com/w...blue_dial3.jpg

[CFR]

Originally Posted by le_baron

This is amazing. Can you point me to your sources for this information? I am particularly interested in a source for the proposition that Langes stamped "CO" were made by AP. My Lange 1 has the CO stamp

I have a current generation Lange 1, originally sold by the NYC boutique in 2017, with the CO stamp. So at least some of the recent models have the CO stamp.

Sure. I'm not comfortable disclosing names of specific individuals, but the case maker information came from two people: a longtime, high-level Lange employee in Germany and a very well-known independent watchmaker who knows these things because he has had to source cases for his own brand. There are very few high-end case manufacturers, and you can see here that Centror is a subsidiary of Audemars Piguet. The "CO" stamp = Centror. If the case makers' stamps were random letters/number/symbols that didn't reflect the letters in their actual names, then this info would be a lot sketchier. :)

[billfredericks]

Have ALS Saxonia Thin and Saxonia 216.026 sub seconds. Great watches.

[chloebear]

Originally Posted by jed11

Sorry to post another pic...



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Fantastic watch! Please keep the pictures coming.


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[justcruisin]

I went back to my nearby Rolex AD just now to try the Cellini. Before going back to the ALS AD to drool some more. Had a great conversation with the advisor (he said he as the store director?) and he had on a rose gold Cellini two time. He, of course, recommended the Cellini as an every day dress watch vs. ALS, etc. etc - reliability, durability, waterproof.

Below is a pic of the blue face date (I prefer the two time, but they only had that in black). The moonphase one is nice, but RG only. Fit like a glove around my wrist, but it is definitely showier than the ALS. This is CA specific, but they did say there was some law about exotic animal hides used in the bands of these watches that will prevent their sale in the future, and Rolex isn't going to substitute bands...may get pulled from the CA market all together. It's very nice but now I feel like information overload - and need to slowly figure out what I want :).

Off topic, but he had four (4) YM's in stock, and said a sub should be relatively easy to source - I assume that would be IF I went ahead with the Cellini. No chance on SS Daytona and possibly OF WG Daytona in a few months. For sports watches, only the Daytona really fits with my wrist size so didn't inquire about any other sport models.

IMG_2806.jpg

[easterbunny]

Saxonia 100%

[CFR]

Originally Posted by justcruisin

I went back to my nearby Rolex AD just now to try the Cellini. Before going back to the ALS AD to drool some more. Had a great conversation with the advisor (he said he as the store director?) and he had on a rose gold Cellini two time. He, of course, recommended the Cellini as an every day dress watch vs. ALS, etc. etc - reliability, durability, waterproof.

Personally, I'd make the decision purely on aesthetics -- which is more attractive to you. I'd disregard the "reliability, durability, waterproof" remarks.

Water resistance is 5ATM for the Cellini (the lowest water resistance of any Rolex model) and 3ATM for the Lange. Neither one of these is a dive watch, and both can withstand normal everyday exposure to water (rain, splashes, etc.). If you're definitely planning on showering and swimming with this watch (and if it's on the appropriate waterproof strap), then the Cellini would stand the better chance of survival. Otherwise, it's a wash (so to speak). And anecdotally, I haven't heard of water getting inside any Lange watches during normal daily use.

Reliability and durability comparisons are dubious. Both watches are well-built mechanical watches that can be knocked around without having to baby them. Neither is fragile. If anyone claims that one is demonstrably more reliable/durable than the other, I'd say, "Prove it. Show me the data." I've seen videos of how Lange tests its watches -- they all undergo far more stress than we'd actually put on the watches during everyday use -- and I'd imagine that Rolex does even more such testing. As normal end users, we're highly unlikely to experience any clear reliability/durability difference with either of these two watches. It's not like we're comparing a plastic cup to a glass and dropping both on the floor.

[chloebear]

An update. So after 3 years of looking I finally pulled the trigger on a dress watch, but not the one you’d think. The Lange Saxonia Thin was my choice but I’ve never seen it in person. Due to the pandemic it might be six months before I get to see one in person.

So I found a beautiful Omega DeVille for sale on the forum and just received it. I have to say, I absolutely love it. When I finally get to see the Saxonia I will likely buy it. If so I’ll give this one to my twin brother or my dad.

Thank you all for the fantastic input and advice!




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[prnceofpersia23]

Excellent choice! I think Omega's dress watch options are hugely under appreciated.

Congrats!

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[Rodrigo082]

LANGE for sure ... not even a doubt

[Sterling991]

Thank god I made it in time to save you.

The Omega is a great pick, very nice while you are waiting to buy a high end dress watch.

Please do not listen to the Poors in this thread. The Cellini is gorgeous, I own a rose gold time, compliments constantly.

People love that its a non traditional Rolex, outside of the watch nerd world, no one knows what a "LANGE" is, go with the trusted commodity.