![]() |
ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
![]() |
#121 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Florida
Watch: Sub, DJ41, GMT
Posts: 7,707
|
Rolex Needs a New Business Model
Let’s think things through here…
The AD network provides a filter in terms of who has access and who doesn’t have access to their watches. If they start selling watches on their website, then that opens up the flood gates quite a bit. Millions and millions of people—that don’t have a local Authorized Dealer near them—would suddenly be one click away from making an attempt to buy a white dial ceramic Daytona or perhaps a simple 124060 Submariner. Of course, when they do, all they’ll get is a message saying, “product not currently available.” The supply/demand problem wouldn’t be any better. I think it be would be a lot worse. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#122 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Brian (TBone)
Location: canada
Watch: es make me smile
Posts: 75,970
|
I think they know what they’re doing
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#123 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Real Name: Ben
Location: Valley of the Sun
Watch: 126331 126610 3861
Posts: 3,235
|
Too many notes, Mozart...
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#124 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Asia
Posts: 452
|
Quote:
This may result in fairer wait list, but it might not and unlikely will destroy grey markets. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#125 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Geneva
Posts: 166
|
Rolex needs nothing not even to gift chocolate to frustrated people!
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#126 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Real Name: Teck
Location: South East Asia
Watch: Tudor Black Bay 58
Posts: 1,846
|
Rolex Needs a New Business Model
Quote:
Those are not set up or owned by Rolex. They are still AD owned and might be a concept Rolex decided on to further separate Rolex from the rest. These ADs still know how much you spent on other merchandise at their other branches. A fairer wait list is not at the top of any luxury brand’s priorities. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#127 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Asia
Watch: 5-digit steel
Posts: 384
|
It's funny how, despite Rolex watches themselves being a real luxury product, the pre- and after-sales customer experience is anything but. Sacrifice your dignity sucking up to ADs while they treat you poorly. Dealing with scummy greys, or at the very least visiting them in stores that fall well short of luxurious. Not having the freedom to customise your watch after you bought it through dial or bracelet swaps. It's the opposite of customer centric.
But even if Rolex were moving to a corporate owned boutique model like AP, where you can at least experience a degree of politeness and a nicely furnished boutique to spend some time in, it's probably a ~10 year journey to get that retail footprint up. I'm guessing there's at least hundreds of ADs and to phase them out and replace will take so long and still wouldn't address the terrible customer experience problem. The terrible customer experience is a risk to the brand of Rolex. Clearly it's damn durable because there's still no shortage of people after them. But it's not invincible. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#128 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Real Name: Brad
Location: Purdue
Watch: Daytona
Posts: 9,238
|
Nope
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
♛ ✠ Ω 2FA Active |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#129 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Somewhere Cold
Posts: 907
|
The customer experience at my AD has been fantastic. I have very little spend history besides my Explorer II and bracelet links. I recently bought a used Panerai and contacted my SA about straps. Given they sell Panerai, I was concerned that not buying a new one from them would be bad optics. Instead, the SA helped me pick out a nice replacement strap, and then told me it would be free of charge due to the loyalty points I earned from my Rolex purchase. That can't be beat. I have gotten calls for other watches since, but I only buy the references I want. This AD is top shelf.
Quote:
__________________
Rolex GMT Master II 116710LN Rolex Sea-Dweller 16600 Rolex Explorer 224270 Rolex Explorer II 226570 Polar Omega Moonwatch Sapphire Sandwich Panerai PAM00111 2 Factor Authentication |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#130 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Real Name: Doug
Location: Charlotte, NC
Watch: Daytona BLNR SubLV
Posts: 2,261
|
Quote:
My AD experience has been nothing except ... exceptional. They never did any of the negative practices you or anyone has claimed on this forum. I have never purchased anything from them except the watches I wanted. I had to wait for some of them but nothing unreasonable (actually quite reasonable time considering the current demand). My total purchase history (no jewelry or anything else): March 2019 - TH Monaco May 2019 - DJ41 July 2019 - BLNR on jubilee (received day I asked) December 2019 - black Daytona 116500LN (58 day wait) December 2020 - 2nd black Daytona 116500LN (10 month wait) December 2021 - 126610LV Starbucks (7 month wait) Three plus years of a great relationship and wonderful customer service. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#131 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: bay area
Posts: 571
|
Nothing wrong with speculating on what you would do differently if you were in charge. Or speculation about why things are so different from a five years ago.
I don’t think Rolex orchestrated the conditions, but it’s probably not hurting them. The illusion of exclusivity is a large part of being a successful luxury brand in an Industrial Age. We’re just insecure enough to buy into it. Price at MSRP is already a barrier for most humans and market price only is frustrating because of the stories that make it appear that 1 in 10 seem to being “gifted” $10k subsidies and the fear that if you do pay market price you could lose a second time when or if demand softens. My recommendation- if you’re out of the game and want into modern Rolex you just buy a black sub date at market price. Just buy the one sub and keep it for life and move on. Collecting/following Rolex from there is only going to be fun if you are NOT the type of person who overthinks market timing. If you are an overanalyzer, best to get to a certain zen. Also to realize there are even cooler things than Rolex. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#132 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: up a hill
Posts: 1,916
|
Neither of those will happen, demand is rising and production is fixed. So long as Rolex sell every watch they make, they are happy, and they probably don't care about the secondary market, because it's none of their business.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#133 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: bay area
Posts: 571
|
Rolex certainly care about the secondary market as an indicator of expected primary demand. Demand over the next twenty years could soften for many reasons.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#134 | ||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Watch: All Rolex
Posts: 7,019
|
Quote:
That demand also comes from resellers that hoard watches artificially driving pricing. So implied it is demand. Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#135 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2021
Real Name: Montemayor
Location: Madrid
Posts: 425
|
Quote:
Yep, tell them what you really think. In fact, send them all your business credentials that go back 40 years in senior management positions in Fortune 500 companies with turnaround experience so you can go apply for the CEO or COO position. Tell them you have an MBA from Harvard Business School and you had a startup in Silicon Valley that you sold for $4 billion. Good luck. .
__________________
You never actually own a Rolex. Eventually your son inherits your place on the waiting list. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#136 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: TRF
Posts: 2,266
|
Quote:
__________________
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#137 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Somewhere Cold
Posts: 907
|
__________________
Rolex GMT Master II 116710LN Rolex Sea-Dweller 16600 Rolex Explorer 224270 Rolex Explorer II 226570 Polar Omega Moonwatch Sapphire Sandwich Panerai PAM00111 2 Factor Authentication |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#138 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Somewhere Cold
Posts: 907
|
The demand comes from people with wealth all over the world willing to pay the market price for Rolex watches. The resellers have zero to do with that.
Take some 100 level Econ courses and you might find dealer conspiracy theories a little far fetched.
__________________
Rolex GMT Master II 116710LN Rolex Sea-Dweller 16600 Rolex Explorer 224270 Rolex Explorer II 226570 Polar Omega Moonwatch Sapphire Sandwich Panerai PAM00111 2 Factor Authentication |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#139 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Somewhere Cold
Posts: 907
|
But conspiracy theories are much more fun!
![]()
__________________
Rolex GMT Master II 116710LN Rolex Sea-Dweller 16600 Rolex Explorer 224270 Rolex Explorer II 226570 Polar Omega Moonwatch Sapphire Sandwich Panerai PAM00111 2 Factor Authentication |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#140 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 1,114
|
My $.02
I'd like to see some sort of official certified pre-owned program from Rolex and encourage dealers to take trade-ins. They could eliminate international warranties and make their warranty coverage valid for only the original owner or on certified used pieces sold through AD's. If anyone else wants a warranty for a watch purchased outside of the official Rolex dealer network they can send their watch to an RSC for service and a warranty, which they have to pay for. If there were no international warranties I promise you'd see a lot fewer watches moving from Europe and North American into China. If an AD takes a trade in that's less than a year old they can't resell it as used. This keeps AD's from immediately turning new watches into used BNIB watches to be sold at market price. Make AD's deliver new watches to bonafide buyers within a reasonable time of receiving them. This would keep AD's from filling their safes with the hot pieces to dole out to the $100k club. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#141 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Real Name: Coco
Location: ��&
Watch: 5711
Posts: 618
|
You tell em, boss.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#142 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Real Name: Dan
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Watch: Sub LV
Posts: 678
|
The amazing thing to me is that in a market situation where you are selling a product that is in such high demand that retailers can't keep them on the shelves, the normal reaction is for the manufacturer to raise prices. Classic supply and demand economics. But Rolex isn't doing this. Why not??? Yes, for us mere mortals the prices are effectively going up since Greys and flippers snatch up the inventory and sell them at 2x. But Rolex isn't getting any of that, and they are the creators.
What is Rolex thinking??? -Dan
__________________
Watches: GMT-II Coke series K; DJ36 SS white-dial & Roulette date; 126610LV Starbucks Wife's watch: DJ31 RG/SS, diamond dial, diamond bezel -- "Wear the watch, don't let the watch wear you!" |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#143 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: bay area
Posts: 571
|
Quote:
Also if they raised retail prices to meet demand today, many of the aspirational customers would go away over the coming years AP and Patek can relatively veblen because their customers are self screening already |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#144 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Henderson, Nevada
Posts: 356
|
Quote:
Quote:
![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#145 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: bay area
Posts: 571
|
AP incidentally is going direct to consumer - but it’s a much smaller ship to turn.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#146 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 1,114
|
Rolex has dramatically increased pricing with the introduction of the 6-digit series, and has continued to slowly increase since. Their respective MSRP's are pushing top of the market for a mass produced Swiss watch relative to their most direct competitors, current open-market pricing madness notwithstanding. It wasn't ancient history (around 2008-09) that the Swiss watch industry was in serious, serious trouble. Rolex fared better than most, but other than Daytonas you could pretty much buy anything out of the case and it wasn't hard to get a discount, and PM model discounts started at 20% without much pushing. Some major brand powerhouses were buying back their inventory from their AD's and destroying watches to keep them from being dumped on the secondary market for pennies on the dollar and destroying their brand equity. I think that this period is what really empowered the grey market dealers, as they were the outlet that many AD's were using to try to stay liquid, and manufacturers generally turned a blind eye, at least for awhile.
Point is, all luxury brands have to be careful about price increases, because you can't ever really go backwards if you get it wrong. I'm not sure we'll ever see a normal Rolex market again, but this isn't sustainable and there will absolutely be reset. Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#147 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Watch: All Rolex
Posts: 7,019
|
Quote:
![]() There is no conspiracy, it's extremely straightforward. Look beyond one layer and look to Econ 400 level courses at minimum. ADs sell to big purchasers (including resellers), that in turn buy watches they don't want in order to move up the purchase list for the hot items. ADs move slow selling watches as desired, along with supporting high secondary market prices. Their profit margins are the same if selling to 10 small buyers or 1 reseller if selling the same quantity. There are no discounts anymore. It's desirable for them to encourage. As others have mentioned what we have today, boarders a Veblen good with no close substitute (unless you consider Rolex a Giffen good relative to Patek and AP). As a result resellers that hoard inventory hold all the power in setting secondary market pricing, which in turn impacts MSRP demand aka the part you are focusing on most. The inventory sitting in reseller safes that is not getting in hands of consumers i.e. low inventory turnover, is deadweight loss to the consumer. You're thinking way to much about basic finance/economics and not enough behavioral finance or econometrics. Now go do some multiple linear regression and try again with a multi-factor relationship, not simple linear demand. Do a cross on global currency valuations vs Swiss Franc, along with public sector spending trends and inflation, all against the pricing of Swiss Watches and Crypto trends. It's not as simple as people with money, want big fancy watch. People have been saying for years now that it's just increased demand. Historically that's how it worked, but that's an out of date mindset proven incorrect over and over again the last 5 to 6 years that does not hold true today. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#148 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: up a hill
Posts: 1,916
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#149 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: USA
Watch: Sub 41 Date
Posts: 186
|
if you believe Paul Thorpe, this VIP shenanigans is coming to an end as Rolex moves more exclusively to the boutique model where you won't be forced to buy jewelry or other brands, and Rolex will have much more strict guidelines for how pieces are allocated
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#150 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,607
|
Quote:
This is all based on the assumption that ADs are just shoveling watches to greys and that the resellers are hoarding watches. I don’t think anyone has given any evidence that those things are happening. This is not an Econ 400 problem. It’s a price ceiling and arbitrage problem. Hoofbeats usually equal horses and not zebras. But I guess I’m impressed you know a bunch of economic terms. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.