32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Option to leave it with them (RSC) to in-house wear? What?

This can be routine.
They may opt to wear it whilst performing day to day tasks in the w/shop with a watch they want to get right before it gets sent back out.
There's literally no better way and is the gold standard which is applied on a case by case basis.

It's like tuning a car or motorcycle.
The dyno can only get you so far, and only a real world test can identify whether some fine tuning can improve things or is necessary.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

It’s exactly the opposite of what they told me at RSC, they said wearing the watch, proper winding and movement would help it run better not slower. That’s why one of their options was to leave it with them to in-house wear and test it.

Okay so you observed -2 they say it’s running 0. Why do you think that is.

The balance wheel gets affected by movement. Are you saying it ticks faster when the balance wheel is affected by movement or slower?


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[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Option to leave it with them (RSC) to in-house wear? What?

I think he means the leave it on the machine that winds the watch but also moves it around. You know that machine that looks like an amusement park ride.


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[mattedialdoc]

My 126610 loses 1sec in a week or two. I’m pretty happy.


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[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by Dirt

This can be routine.
They may opt to wear it whilst performing day to day tasks in the w/shop with a watch they want to get right before it gets sent back out.
There's literally no better way and is the gold standard which is applied on a case by case basis.

It's like tuning a car or motorcycle.
The dyno can only get you so far, and only a real world test can identify whether some fine tuning can improve things or is necessary.

[tgoose1]

I don't know, kinda scary finding out what actual performance will be, on the wrist, of all things!

[CharlesN]

It would appear that the results from the mono chronomatic stereoscope and what some people call "real-world" timekeeping results are remarkably similar in a Joe situation.

It would appear, and this is so far unproven, that providing a watch is regulated well and very evenly the precision and accuracy are only affected to a small degree in either scenario.

The watch therefore ought to keep good time and the gain or loss should be limited.

My problem is that I have several watches and only can wind one at a time. Does anybody know how I can wind more watches simultaneously.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

It would appear that the results from the mono chronomatic stereoscope and what some people call "real-world" timekeeping results are remarkably similar in a Joe situation.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

My problem is that I have several watches and only can wind one at a time. Does anybody know how I can wind more watches simultaneously.

There is a solution...



RSC Brisbaine is doing it.

They use their "routine gold standard" wear socks technology.

"Whilst performing day to day tasks in the w/shop with a watch they want to get right before it gets sent back out."

[samuel019]

Well I am happy to report that after owning mine bought from my A D on November 7 2020 is finally running amazing.

Maybe needed a break in period? But I dont wear it a ton either. Maybe a a few days out of the month.

At any rate I set it using an atomic clock app on Sunday around 2 pm and as of right now it has not lost one second using the same app.

I'm serious. Not one. So 72 hours later and perfect. I will take it.

Now if I get only get my 116500 to run like that. Its the worst out of all my 6 digit references.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by samuel019

Well I am happy to report that after owning mine bought from my A D on November 7 2020 is finally running amazing.

Welcome Anthony.
What is the Ref. of this excellent running watch?

[TheVTCGuy]

This is not a scientific method in any way, but just by my eye, I measured my 126610 today as compared to June 1st. FWIW It is slow 35 seconds. That is 35 seconds in 30 days or….. well a little over 1 second per day slow. That is WELL within standards and my point of satisfaction. I am very happy with this accuracy!

[samuel019]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Welcome Anthony.
What is the Ref. of this excellent running watch?

Sorry I forgot to mention that.

New Sub 126610.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Does anybody know how I can wind more watches simultaneously.

a multi watch winder should do the trick.

[CharlesN]

During all these watch observations and data taking one thing has come to light.
The fact that all these tests have been done in a temperature controlled environment without any thought to the real world and the temperature changes that occur naturally.

Here in the UK we have a reasonably steady temperature range so I have had to simulate various conditions that could be met elsewhere.

But, First I had to calibrate the measuring device. There is no point in having useless equipment for an important study.




The pictures showing calibration are here.
Top Left .. A Kettle boiling with plain water.
Top Right .. Produced a temperature reading of 100.8 Celsius.
Bottom Left .. Ice cubes in water chilling down.
Bottom Right .. The water temperature dropped to 0.0 Celsius.

The temperature probe can in this case be considered to be calibrated and very accurate.

The COSC standards are 8 degrees Celsius, 23 degrees Celsius and 38 degrees Celsius.

I have calibrated to far beyond those temperatures..


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[saxo3]

First Rolex Amplitude Breakdown Study - An Experimentalist View (part 3)

Comparison between 3235 and 3285 movements

New:
- GMT-Master II 126710, 2018
- 3285 caliber, date model

Comparison:
- Sea-Dweller 126600, 2017
- Submariner 126610, 2020
- Both 3235 caliber, date model

Data taking:
- Data points taken: every 60 seconds = 4320 data points in 72 hours
- Duration: entire power reserve
- Start time for all graphs is 22:00:00


Figure 1 displays the measured AMPLITUDES during the full period of 72 hours


Figure 2 displays the measured RATES during the full period of 72 hours


Figure 3 displays the measured AMPLITUDES (top) and the RATES (bottom) during the full period of 72 hours

Conclusion for 3285 caliber:
- Lower starting amplitude after full winding.
- More amplitude variations during power reserve.
- Less pronounced amplitude breakdowns.
- Rate and Amplitude show that this caliber has an issue.

Pragmatic example:
If one takes these three watches and places them at rest in dial up position, e.g. on a Friday evening at 6 PM, and pick them up again either on Sunday 6 PM (after 48 H) or Monday 6 AM (after 60 H), then one obtains the following performance.



3285 Timekeeping:
After 61 hours, the watch was running late by -14 seconds.
The movement stopped running after 70 h 54 min 38 sec.

[goodolejr]

Does anyone know whether or not the 22xx series movements are also experiencing these issues?

[rkim11]

Originally Posted by samuel019

Well I am happy to report that after owning mine bought from my A D on November 7 2020 is finally running amazing.

Maybe needed a break in period? But I dont wear it a ton either. Maybe a a few days out of the month.

At any rate I set it using an atomic clock app on Sunday around 2 pm and as of right now it has not lost one second using the same app.

I'm serious. Not one. So 72 hours later and perfect. I will take it.

Now if I get only get my 116500 to run like that. Its the worst out of all my 6 digit references.

If I wear mine regularly enough to keep it from getting to end of power reserve, I have had a gain of 1 second in a month.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by rkim11

If I wear mine regularly enough to keep it from getting to end of power reserve, I have had a gain of 1 second in a month.

I do the same by daily wearing and/or regular full winding all my watches, including my SD43.

But if the power reserve of "approximately 70 hours", advertised by Rolex SA, already disappears (w.r.t. timekeeping) around 60 hours, then this long PR is non-existent and misleading for the ordinary Rolex Joe.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by goodolejr

Does anyone know whether or not the 22xx series movements are also experiencing these issues?

My wife as a 2235 movement in her watch. The watch was bought in July 2019.

I have been monitoring it for the last 17 days

It is now a total of 4 seconds fast over the entire period

That shows me that there is no problem at all with her watch.

On the contrary, it is excellent.

[Roli4life]

I have 3 w/ the 32xx movement.

SD43
PEPSI/Superman
And the new Sub

All are working fine.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Roli4life

I have 3 w/ the 32xx movement.

SD43
PEPSI/Superman
And the new Sub

All are working fine.

Welcome here Roli4life

The SD43 (Ref. 126600 with 3235) I know

What Ref. are the "PEPSI/Superman" and the "new Sub"?

You are first owner? All watches are from 2021?

[Roli4life]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Welcome here Roli4life

The SD43 (Ref. 126600 with 3235) I know

What Ref. are the "PEPSI/Superman" and the "new Sub"?

You are first owner? All watches are from 2021?

No prob.
Im the frst owner of all 3.

Got the SD43 in 2017 -2 to 3 spd
The Pepsi (216710 BLRO), and Sub (124060) both in 21.

Pepsi +1 to 2 spd.

The Sub is the most accurate at less than +1 spd. It’s crazy accurate even over the course of several days.

I should add that I did not know it took 75 full winds to top off?
Is this new to the the 32xx movement?
Years ago, when I was picking up my Hulk (2012) my AD told me it was 30 turns to fully wind a Rolex.

I should also add that these are my observations while wearing the watches, or checking them on my winder. I don’t have anything to run tests on them.


Happy Independence Day!

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Roli4life

I should add that I did not know it took 75 full winds to top off?
Is this new to the the 32xx movement?

The short answer is NO.

I measured movement rates, amplitudes, and beat errors in two different watch positions (dial up, six up) starting from watch at rest (zero winding) until full winding and beyond, in single steps of 5 crown-winding turns (360 degrees each).

Four different watches with 3235, 3285, and 3130 movements were measured.

Common features observed for all calibers:

(1) a steep rise in amplitudes (from 0 degrees) is measured only 1-2 turns after the second hand started moving, i.e. exactly after 20 turns.

(2) The highest amplitudes are measured after 35 turns, i.e. a bit before the spring slip starts.

(3) For both watches the spring slip starts at 38-39 turns.

(4) The measured amplitudes slightly decrease after 40 turns and remain constant until the end of the tests at 70 turns.

(4) For my 32xx watches, there is no gain to wind more than 40 full turns.



Comparison with a GMT-Master II BLRO (caliber 3285) and a Submariner 14060M (caliber 3130)

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by saxo3

(4) The measured amplitudes slightly decrease after 40 turns and remain constant until the end of the tests at 70 turns.
(4) For my 32xx watches, there is no gain to wind more than 40 full turns.

Am I seeing double or even Quadruple .. Im sure I see two 4's.

I have found it tricky to wind the watch knowing that i have done a "360" probably because of my clumsy fingers.

It is quite amazing to watch someone winding their watch .... I was at a watch shop this morning (Not Rolex) and the sales assistant wound a watch for a customer. The winding he did seemed to go on for ever. He was chatting to his customer and just winding away seemingly oblivious to how much he wound.

The "drop" in amplitude is something I see every time I place my watch on my Timegrapher and it confuses things for me in a delightful way. Why on earth does it do that? I feel another reason for more research. (Please dont say .. Oh No!)

[saxo3]

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by saxo3

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[padi56]

[saxo3]

q.e.d.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by saxo3

q.e.d.

I understand you reasons.

Thanks to all who contributed.