Insanity in the marketplace....

[bblewis]

Wow.... lots to unpack here! Any grey dealer isn't doing anything wrong by pricing the watch however they wish. Price it at $50k! Now, it shouldn't sell there. But if it did, that's the market. If everyone just said "aw, hell no" to a SS selling for over $25k prices would drop until it found a buyer. So, while it sucks that instant gratification is really expensive, I get it.

If Rolex wants to control the grey market all they have to do is go back to the days when there was a sub in the display case and five more in stock. The market would be crushed. But, people want what they can't have. It's great and free marketing. As a by-product, Rolex sells every SS model they produce with zero inventory concerns. Any of us would love to run a business with a product that moves like that.

But why take any of this personally? It's a watch. ADs are there make to money. Enterprising grey's are there to make money. And Rolex has established incredible brand cache.

I'll keep on the hunt for my desired Pepsi at MSRP. If it never happens, I'll gladly consider IWC or Tudor or Omega or Grand Seiko or who knows!

[DarthSimon]

Originally Posted by corkscrew

I have a Hulk that I have worn sparingly. I always wanted a President in 18K, but the recent rise in prices had me straining to justify the price. If I can get a bunch for my Hulk, all of a sudden the price for the President doesn’t seem that bad. It’s all funny money.

I obtained a Hulk a few months back, just flipped it for a DD 40mm... The Profit from the hulk basically got me the DD for basically 1/3 OFF....

Is it wrong of me to make a profit? It's just business... Supply and demand.

[NDAzone]

Originally Posted by JRell

I wish this was somehow outlawed.

Anti-capitalist, eh?

[Jim Beam]

This has been a fascinating thread and there's lots of good conversation. Count me as a member that is starting to sour on Rolex as a brand. I recently bought my first Rolex and with every day that goes by "on the list", I may be OK if this is my only purchase in my lifetime.

However, the most fascinating part of this thread is that there are clearly people who believe that the ADs are not in on the grey market. Are you insane? OF COURSE they're involved and shipping watches out the back door. You think the sales people don't read the internet? Don't know market prices? The watches are finding their way out and into the hands of greys. The ADs don't care about you or "the list" because every watch sold at MSRP is a lost opportunity cost (pretty heavy in some cases).

[JRell]

Originally Posted by NDAzone

Anti-capitalist, eh?

Outlawed the wrong word. Regulated by Rolex, not the government!

[phillycheez]

Originally Posted by Jim Beam

This has been a fascinating thread and there's lots of good conversation. Count me as a member that is starting to sour on Rolex as a brand. I recently bought my first Rolex and with every day that goes by "on the list", I may be OK if this is my only purchase in my lifetime.

However, the most fascinating part of this thread is that there are clearly people who believe that the ADs are not in on the grey market. Are you insane? OF COURSE they're involved and shipping watches out the back door. You think the sales people don't read the internet? Don't know market prices? The watches are finding their way out and into the hands of greys. The ADs don't care about you or "the list" because every watch sold at MSRP is a lost opportunity cost (pretty heavy in some cases).

Exactly. But only so much blame can go to privately owned ADs. Rolex has encouraged it and are responsible for it.

They have created a monster where stock traders are now the main audience for Rolex.

I'm sour that Rolex has lost their way. They used to be a brand where middle class can save just enough to buy that something special. That steel Rolex sports watch. Now that audience not only can't buy a Rolex because they aren't VIP, but they can't even afford grey market prices. I had so much respect for the Rolex way and I always thought it was because of their non-profit privately owned roots. They have lost their way.

I'm grateful my eyes are open. Speedmaster Calibre 321 is next on my list. I'm personally done with Rolex. Unfortunately my partner will likely see a OP coming her way... She wants what she wants.

[ippon20]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

Wrong. Not even close. He pays a premium and marks it up accordingly.

I see nothing wrong with any of this. Why is everyone whining?

It's a luxury item. Pay to play if you want to or come back when you can.

Or don't ever. Just stop bitching. It is what it is. I'm sure that some here

will find that statement familiar if not comforting.


Ben

May I ask how you KNOW this? Let me guess....you were told.

[dkast85]

Originally Posted by JRell

I wish this was somehow outlawed.

The problem is that it's not a commodity that is needed. If it was bottled water during a hurricane or medication for a fatal disease, the wheels of justice would be at work. But we're talking about a luxury watch. This is clear market manipulation, but if people want to spend $20,000 for a watch that retails at $9,000, that's a decision they choose to make. And their life is no different if they choose not to make that decision. If I buy every single Apple computer in the country and I choose to sell them for 2x what they retail for, there's nothing any law enforcement agency will do. Apple, on the other hand, could figure out a way to prevent me from doing this.

[Keepchasing]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

Wrong. Not even close. He pays a premium and marks it up accordingly.

I see nothing wrong with any of this. Why is everyone whining?

It's a luxury item. Pay to play if you want to or come back when you can.

Or don't ever. Just stop bitching. It is what it is. I'm sure that some here

will find that statement familiar if not comforting.


Ben

Please feel free to express why my statement pushed your buttons.
I was not ‘whining’ or ‘bitching’.
I have done business with him, and he is a consummate professional.
Also, I too don’t see anything wrong with any of this. The market is the market.

[amanbra]

I work in finance, people who flip are doing the rational thing from an economic perspective. Doesn't mean I like them though lol...

[JRell]

Originally Posted by dkast85

The problem is that it's not a commodity that is needed. If it was bottled water during a hurricane or medication for a fatal disease, the wheels of justice would be at work. But we're talking about a luxury watch. This is clear market manipulation, but if people want to spend $20,000 for a watch that retails at $9,000, that's a decision they choose to make. And their life is no different if they choose not to make that decision. If I buy every single Apple computer in the country and I choose to sell them for 2x what they retail for, there's nothing any law enforcement agency will do. Apple, on the other hand, could figure out a way to prevent me from doing this.

bad choice of words, that is what I meant, regulate by Rolex. Besides I just bought the Kermit for 29k online...lol good night.

[Cwillis0001]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

Wrong. Not even close. He pays a premium and marks it up accordingly.

Ben

Uh huh. Is that what he told you before you overpaid for a watch? Or is that what you just tell yourself?

[dkast85]

Originally Posted by Posh Gentleman

wow. A Rolex Sub selling for $28K, because of the green bezel. lol

makes BLNR and BLRO appear to be absolute deep value bargains in comparison. This begs me to question, who are buying these for this kind of money? and why?

For almost $30 grand, I'd get myself a Daytona White gold in steel dial. But I guess some people prefer a steel watch for the same price...

Yeah I was thinking this too. I'd just buy myself a WG Daytona (Blue dial) or the smurf if I had this money. This is purely based off the fashion of it all. Somebody decided steel models are cool and they got an insane amount of people to believe that it's so cool that it is as/more valuable than gold haha. You would think that at a certain point the market would reach an inflection point, at which it tops out when it reaches the value of PM models.

[Onikage]

Oystersteel. It's all in the Oystersteel.

[wrxdev]

The problem ain't the grey or the trusted seller, y'all. It is you/we the consumers. If we stop paying, the price will come down. Plain and simple. Instant gratification and for those folks for whom $30K is a rounding error in their net worth, has led to this.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Mystro

I don’t think many forum members know how big he really is.

Ding ding ding lol

Do the math on his turnover. Just the stuff that makes the website would put him well into 7 figures per year profit. Very happy for him his story is motivating and admirable.

Originally Posted by Tavli3

Patek makes 200 Nautilus a year, God only knows how many subs Rolex makes a year. Big difference. Not that its not crazy by the way..

Sorry by that is way off. There’s over 400 Patek ADs in the world. They make thousands. I’d guess close to 5-8k per year across all nautilus SKUs.

[Santiago32]

Originally Posted by wrxdev

the problem ain't the grey or the trusted seller, y'all. It is you/we the consumers. If we stop paying, the price will come down. Plain and simple. Instant gratification and for those folks for whom $30k is a rounding error in their net worth, has led to this.

+1

[thenewrick]

It's like when normal folks support a new up and coming band then the concerts become $600 VIP tickets only. It's just, lame. Rolex is the Burning Man/Coachella of the watch world :D

[iTreelex]

I'm gonna sell my explorer for $15k i think it's a fair price

[cvo]

This is exactly what Rolex wants the market to do. Be thankful you are wearing your Rolex. It’s the game we all signed up for when we decided to sport Rolex watches.

[Anthony808]

Originally Posted by dhknola

Capitalism in action and just as (if not more) American than apple pie! Supply and demand...cracks me up when people get upset when a widget is 18k over msrp; no one is making you buy it.

Well what sucks is they greys get first crack at the watch rather than the general population that it's meant for. It's not a level playing field.

[peterpl]

Originally Posted by DarthSimon

I obtained a Hulk a few months back, just flipped it for a DD 40mm... The Profit from the hulk basically got me the DD for basically 1/3 OFF....

Is it wrong of me to make a profit? It's just business... Supply and demand.

You did the BEST trade there is.

I'm looking to do some trade ups soon as well. I'm getting rid of all my SS pieces laying around soon.

[Son Goku]

As much as I absolutely detest the idea that the average person can't get the SS Rolex he wants without overpaying or buying hordes of watches he doesn’t want to “form a relationship”, the situation is what it is because the free market is what it is. While it may be true that a lot of watches will sit for a while due to them being incredibly overpriced (looking at you $30k+ Cermit), it's also very much true that there are many, many customers out there willing to pay over MSRP and even various multiples over MSRP for the watch they want.

If this wasn't a reality don't you think prices in the grey market as a whole would adjust accordingly? It’s basic supply and demand.

To those mentioning ethics, it's ultimately up to Rolex themselves to decide what is "ethical" from the AD's perspective and act on it accordingly. Anyone thinking Rolex lacks awareness of the current market is just naive and it shocks me that so many on here think that Rolex find it so appalling and oppose the idea of customers purchasing multiple watches to be allotted a desirable SS piece. Rolex knows full well that this is happening across the board. I’m sure they could somehow remedy this practice and even apparently so many watches slipping to greys if they truly wanted to.

As any business Rolex wants to move as many pieces as possible. Stop saying “oh Rolex is just a charity”. Lmao Rolex is a business like any other and they very much value brand perception, allure, and exclusivity. I promise you Rolex value the high paying client who purchases multiple pieces a year WAY MORE than you who just wants one SS piece and may never return to the AD again. Just because you’re being turned off by the brand because you can’t get the SS piece you want doesn’t mean most will be as well and a huge portion of the Rolex customer base can pay to play as others have suggested. It's a luxury good... Since when have luxury goods been produced en masse to meet all demand?

In a pre-COVID world, with Rolex knowing just how much demand is exceeding supply for certain pieces, don’t you think they could step up production to at lIn 2016 when hype wasn’t even at its fever pitch they were already making an estimated 800,000 watches a year. Surely they could make a few less Datejusts and more Submariners/GMTs/Daytonas. “Oh but those watches are more complicated and they take longer to make”. True, but not to the extent that demand should outweigh supply as much as it does. The scarcity is intentional

Just my 2 cents :)

[Maxy]

Originally Posted by tally

haha if you think davidsw doesnt have connections with ADs you are extremely naive

Hehe, if you can come up with that conclusion from my post then ..

[dkast85]

Originally Posted by cvo

This is exactly what Rolex wants the market to do. Be thankful you are wearing your Rolex. It’s the game we all signed up for when we decided to sport Rolex watches.

Rolex would make a killing if they just reacted to the market price of these watches. They should sell their BLNR's and BLRO's for $15,000 minimum. That's what people are paying for them, Rolex should make that money imo. If people stop paying that, they can adjust the price accordingly. These models should sell like lobsters, wherein the MSRP is what the Market dictates.

[hnn17]

So which member with too much money will take it for the team, then come here to start a thread? Thus setting the market price for latter lvs.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Keepchasing

Yes, I think he gets it for retail price. One would think he might be a pretty good customer to an AD or two.

even if he does get it at retail he has to bundle it with a bunch of datejusts/day dates, so in the end its more than for retail. i don't know if he gets it for retail or not though

[iTreelex]

waiting to see who gets bamboozled buying it lol

[Fish220sr@aol.com]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

Just saw this and I have to say this makes me sick on so many levels. First of all a SS watch at $28K. Then the fact Rolex allows these creeps to get these and rape the world rather than just selling to the end user that will actually just enjoy it and not flip it. Rolex either needs to produce more or do something about this gray BS. Although I know for a fact them know this goes on and I am sure they could care less.

Yah I know its capitalism and so be it. I get making a profit but I have lost ALL respect for DavidSW. He can go pound sand. Time to enjoy what Rolex's I do have and move onto another brand. Sure stupidity.

I was reprimanded by an administrator for the same type of comment about the same seller.Glad to someone else also stating the obvious at their peril.

[Fish220sr@aol.com]

Originally Posted by tgoose1

It is my understanding that most grey market Rolex inventory is sourced through offshore sources. Some big name dealers here source this way exclusively. Just refer to origin codes on the warranty cards, not many US/AD's will be found especially for more popular models. Most watches from greys that look perfect and are advertised as "excellent, unworn, or like-new" have been professionally refinished. The best/safest way to purchase a brand new Rolex watch is through an authorized Rolex dealer.

To buy from an AD is conceptually the best way to go, however in real life, for the majority of would be buyers not to become a reality.