32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

The purchase dates (2021) of your watches do NOT indicate the fabrication date of your 32xx movements!

Correct but you have to assume some correlation when ads are selling their monthly allocation each month and Rolex are churning them about.


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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Correct but you have to assume some correlation when ads are selling their monthly allocation each month and Rolex are churning them about.

Do YOU know which movements are assembled by Rolex SA in watches sold in 2021 or 2022?

Can YOU exclude that your 2021 watch has a caliber installed, which was produced in e.g. 2019?

Don't forget that maybe only 1 % (probably much less) of all owners would ever recognize a timekkeping issue.

As we all know, the 32xx caliber fits geometrically into "old" and "new" watches.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Do YOU know which movements are assembled by Rolex SA in watches sold in 2021 or 2022?

Can YOU exclude that your 2021 watch has a caliber installed, which was produced in e.g. 2019?

Don't forget that maybe only 1 % (probably much less) of all owners would ever recognize a timekkeping issue.

As we all know, the 32xx caliber fits geometrically into "old" and "new" watches.

Logic says that it will generally be fifo. Zero sense Rolex using a 2017 movement in 2021. Yes it could happen but going to assume with the way any manufacturing operation works that will not be the case.


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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Logic says that it will generally be fifo. Zero sense Rolex using a 2017 movement in 2021. Yes it could happen but going to assume with the way any manufacturing operation works that will not be the case.

You did not carefully think about it.
Anyhow, let's stop here!

Please collect more data and share them with us. Your 2021 watches are very intetesting.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

You did not carefully think about it.
Anyhow, let's stop here!

Please collect more data and share them with us. Your 2021 watches are very intetesting.

No any logical person would assume fifo for movements.

If this one goes bad I’m just selling them all. What’s the point of the data when they all look them same when they go bad? Nothing more to learn from this.

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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by amanbra

No any logical person would assume fifo for movements.

Ouch.

[subdownunder]

Brand new Rootbeer

After 5 days gained 1 second

That's Grand Seiko Spring Drive performance

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by subdownunder

Brand new Rootbeer

After 5 days gained 1 second

That's Grand Seiko Spring Drive performance

Hey the 32xx are amazingly good as long as they run in spec. The issue is over time some of them suffer from a big drop in amplitude and then run really slow.

My DJ 36 from 2019 as under 1 spd for a year and then dropped to -30s per day... been to RSC twice...

[saxo3]

This thread is running now since exactly 1 year.

Here is a graphical display together with the corresponding numbers about the outcome so far.





Two (at least) interesting points:

The quantity of 32xx watch owners that observe and report issues with their movements did not decrease over time (1 year) but remained rather constant at a level of about 28 – 30 %.

There are 4 times more poll voters than different contributors to the thread. That means the majority voted but did not post in this thread.

[Moretti]

Saxo3, if I remember correct, you had a Sea Dweller which suffered from the known issue, you sent it in for a service and it's been working fine ever since. Do you have any update on that watch? Is it still running within spec? My DJ that I mentioned in October, was losing 2-3 seconds per day. I left it not running for a month in December I think and now it's doing -6 spd ... I'm really wondering if this issue has been resolved or if it is going to be resolved at some point ...

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Moretti

Saxo3, if I remember correct, you had a Sea Dweller which suffered from the known issue, you sent it in for a service and it's been working fine ever since. Do you have any update on that watch? Is it still running within spec? My DJ that I mentioned in October, was losing 2-3 seconds per day. I left it not running for a month in December I think and now it's doing -6 spd ... I'm really wondering if this issue has been resolved or if it is going to be resolved at some point ...

You remember correctly. Yes, my Sea-Dweller 126600 is still running well.

The following I posted already somewhere else, but it might be of interest especially in this thread too.

From end July to mid September 2021, I did some position dependent self regualtion tests with this 3235 caliber.

The watch showed excellent timekeeping during a continuous test period of 9 weeks with daily data taking and permanent watch wearing during daytime. A full caliber winding was only done once at the beginning of the test.

Here is the timekeeping result.


Loss-overnight-dependence on rest position measured with a simple smartphone app.

During daytime, the watch always lost a bit of time, never more than approximately 1 s, which is very good for a mechanical movement.

Overnight, the watch recovered its timekeeping by choosing the appropriate rest position.

My 3235 always gained time in DU, DD, 6U, and 3U, it only lost time in 9U.

This gain/loss is PREDICTABLE and REPRODUCIBLE for my 3235.

I measured the position dependent effect with a timegrapher plus a smartphone app overnight.

The results are summarized in the table below.



Conclusion:

- With normal watch wearing and chosen rest position overnight I can keep my Sea-Dweller (3235) close to perfect timekeeping, for more than 2 months at least.

- It only needs a bit of experience and observation how the gain/loss pattern overnight and during the daytime is.

- Not all watch movements (31xx, 32xx, and others) depend as described above, movement regulation and consistency is a key parameter.

- This study proves that for a healthy and daily worn 32xx watch, no movement winding (after the first full winding) is necessary to keep excellent timekeeping over months.

- Not discussed here, but I have found and collected data that my 3235 timekeeping is TEMPERATURE dependent. The same observation was made by CharlesN for his Explorer II (3285).

[Moretti]

This is really bizarre to me. You sent the watch more than 2 years ago and most likely the problem was resolved. In the meantime people are getting new watches and still experience this issue. I quite can't understand it (I know you discussed about the fact, that we don't know how old each movement is but to me it's highly unlikely that the watches being sold now have a 3 years old movements installed). Nonetheless I really hope that your SD stays the way it is and there is a light in a tunnel for 32xx. I'm wondering what's going on with Charles, he used to be quite active here.

[Onequik135i]

My apologies for an amateur comment on here but I do own an Ace Timegrapher, and have Timegraphed my 126610LN purchased new in April 2021 The last time I checked it was running +3 @ 270 amplitude dial up & that was on the 17th of this month. I had noticed lately on a few occasions I had lost 9 seconds when not being worn. I usually wear it once to maybe twice a week in rotation of my other watches.


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[thenewrick]

My guess is the average Joe is either letting their power reserve get too low, or they're resting it in the same position when it's not worn. Those two things will guarantee a watch to lose or gain time, usually lose.

Once you test your own individual watch's resting positions and how it reacts, you'll get great timekeeping.

Mine loses about 2s/day crown up and gains about 2s/day dial up and I just see where my time is at every week or so and adjust accordingly and it corrects itself very consistently. I've had times where it lost like 10 seconds in a day but that was because the power reserve was almost entirely finished.

I'm not sure it's a movement issue as much as a human error in understanding the best way to keep their watch accurate.

TLDR: Ensure proper power reserve, figure out how resting affects timing and adjust accordingly

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Onequik135i

My apologies for an amateur comment on here but I do own an Ace Timegrapher, and have Timegraphed my 126610LN purchased new in April 2021 The last time I checked it was running +3 @ 270 amplitude dial up & that was on the 17th of this month. I had noticed lately on a few occasions I had lost 9 seconds when not being worn. I usually wear it once to maybe twice a week in rotation of my other watches.

After full winding a 32xx caliber, then keeping it only at rest, the movement will stop running after about 72 hours, that is the end of the PR (power reserve). Towards the PR end each movement will lose (many) seconds until it completely stops.

Do a full winding (40 full turns or a bit more), use your timegrapher to measure rate, amplitude, beat error in all 5 positions. The lift angle is 53 degrees for a 32xx caliber. Then you get an idea about the movement.

A detailed step by step timegrapher measurement procedure one can find in this thread in posts #1425 and #771

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1425

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...&postcount=771

[Onequik135i]

I do hand wind my watches almost daily every morning too. I might have missed a day in between on rare occasion but typically wind all 4 of the automatic watches and let the pam111 wind down typically.


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[mc2022]

Bought a Datejust with 3235 movement from AD in Jan 2022. It has been losing ~3 s/d. Bought a timegrapher and here is the result. Amp is above 200 but i'll have to vote no

[Kevin of Larchmont]

New Exp 36m with 3230 movement loses one second every four days.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by mc2022

Bought a Datejust with 3235 movement from AD in Jan 2022. It has been losing ~3 s/d. Bought a timegrapher and here is the result. Amp is above 200 but i'll have to vote no

I assume this is after full wind? or is that after 24 hrs? the above 200 spec is for post 24 hours.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

New Exp 36m with 3230 movement loses one second every four days.

Yeah just enjoy the watch, if the issue hits you'll notice when all of a sudden like after a weekend it's really slow.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Yeah just enjoy the watch, if the issue hits you'll notice when all of a sudden like after a weekend it's really slow.

New DJ36 with 3235 eighteen months ago still running at -1 spd. If the issue hits on either one I’ll report back here.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by mc2022

Bought a Datejust with 3235 movement from AD in Jan 2022. It has been losing ~3 s/d. Bought a timegrapher and here is the result. Amp is above 200 but i'll have to vote no

Some remarks:
The 3235 caliber should be measured with a lift angle of 53 degrees, not 52 degrees.
A change from 52 to 53 will increase all amplitude timegrapher readings by about 6 degrees.
Did you measure after full winding? At least 40 full crown turns are required.
The position 12U is normally not measured.
Your numbers result in an average rate (5 positions) of -17/5 = -3.2 s/d.
Since all rate values are negative, you probably can NOT compensate by any rest position overnight.

[mc2022]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Some remarks:
The 3235 caliber should be measured with a lift angle of 53 degrees, not 52 degrees.
A change from 52 to 53 will increase all amplitude timegrapher readings by about 6 degrees.
Did you measure after full winding? At least 40 full crown turns are required.
The position 12U is normally not measured.
Your numbers result in an average rate (5 positions) of -17/5 = -3.2 s/d.
Since all rate values are negative, you probably can NOT compensate by any rest position overnight.

Thanks for the correction on amplitude, I've rerun the test and updated the reading below. Watch was fully wound, allowed to rest for 10 mins and let the movement settle down on each direction.

I suppose i don't need to wait for 24 hours on each direction, unless the watch has just started running or being regulated. It will also not be fully wound if i wait that long

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by mc2022

Thanks for the correction on amplitude, I've rerun the test and updated the reading below. Watch was fully wound, allowed to rest for 10 mins and let the movement settle down on each direction.

I suppose i don't need to wait for 24 hours on each direction, unless the watch has just started running or being regulated. It will also not be fully wound if i wait that long

Thanks for the update. The amplitudes did not increase much between 52 and 53 degrees.

Here is a measurement procedure:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1425
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...&postcount=771

If you repeat the first 5-position timegrapher test (full winding again) and then do a second measurement after 24 hours (watch at rest in DU position on your timegrapher between the two tests) then you will see how the amplitudes decrease. The result will give you a good indication about the caliber performance. Also interesting what happens to the rates. No watch move and no caliber winding between the two tests.

[dannyp]

Question about “the” problem: Does it happen all at once, or over time? I’ve noticed that my 3230-equipped watch was doing about +.7/day very consistently for months. A couple weeks ago, it started dropping overall, seeming to have settled at about -.3, without any real change in wearing. Still loses time during the day and gains back overnight, just not in the same ratios as before.

Obviously in and off itself this is no big deal, but can’t tell if indicated larger problem.

[mike morris]

I have experience with my DJ41 January 2019 , after 8 months every day used lost 6-8 s.d and I sold it.
Last year from AD January 2021 GMT 2 , after 11-12 months starting work low -8 s.d , sold.
My submariner 3135 from 2019 +2 s.d
My DJ36 3135 from 2019 +1 s.d
Last month start looking for BLNR on 31 movement with good condition.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by mike morris

I have experience with my DJ41 January 2019 , after 8 months every day used lost 6-8 s.d and I sold it.
Last year from AD January 2021 GMT 2 , after 11-12 months starting work low -8 s.d , sold.
My submariner 3135 from 2019 +2 s.d
My DJ36 3135 from 2019 +1 s.d
Last month start looking for BLNR on 31 movement with good condition.

Did it happen all at once? Or gradually?

Absent my wearing patterns changing more than I realized my hope is that I’m seeing the end of the break in period and amplitude has increased. Since it’s running about the same as when fully wound manually.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by mike morris

Last year from AD January 2021 GMT 2 , after 11-12 months starting work low -8 s.d , sold.

Someone recently posted "....some report a few teething problems with mostly early production 32 movements...."
Is any 2021 watch early 32xx production?
Introduction dates:
2015: 3255
2016: 3235
2017: -
2018: 3285 (GMT-Master II)
2019: -
2020: 3230

Originally Posted by dannyp

Did it happen all at once? Or gradually?

It seems to be gradually.
Of course this depends how often you wear the watch and how frequently you measure it.

[mike morris]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Did it happen all at once? Or gradually?

Absent my wearing patterns changing more than I realized my hope is that I’m seeing the end of the break in period and amplitude has increased. Since it’s running about the same as when fully wound manually.

This watches I use in rotation with my submariner 3135 , and ones a week I adjust time in both watch it one moment. And I see different just little after 6-7 months, check by timegrapher and it’s showing no correct like was before.every month losing more and more.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by mike morris

This watches I use in rotation with my submariner 3135 , and ones a week I adjust time in both watch it one moment. And I see different just little after 6-7 months, check by timegrapher and it’s showing no correct like was before.every month losing more and more.

So around 6-7 months it started losing time and kept losing time at an increasing rate after?

Guess I’ll have to see if mine “settles” where it currently is, or if it keeps losing time.

Like I said, going from +7 to -3 is fine (if a bit odd) if that’s where it stays. But I obviously took notice since the watch is ten months old, which seems right in the “problem zone” for these (even though a 2021 3230 seems less likely to be impacted than a pre-2020 3235).