32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Please don't go making comparisons with any Apple products or any other tech related product and high quality wristwatches.
One is disposable and in the same league as a Swatch watch as far as those of us who are "into" watches which are at the serious end of the spectrum.
I'm refering to watches which are for the want of a better expression "heirloom quality".
It's inconceivable for tech related products to last in a useful manner much beyond a decade or so.

Tech is superseded as soon as it's released.
We are accustomed to downloading updates, patches and lord knows what else just to keep it running, along with adding other software which needs to be updated to protect the crap.

If you are having difficulty discerning the fundamental differences, you're in the wrong place and effectively lost.

As far as the notion that Rolex should aim up to the issue in the same manner that a company like Apple would do is beyond fanciful. Rolex going down that path would virtually blow Rolex up from the inside.
Also the Swiss are in some ways pretty arrogant when it comes to watchmaking in that they believe their own longstanding propaganda and they think they know more about watchmaking than anyone else in the entire universe.
Foe example, when Daniels told them how to make a Co-axial work, they ignored him and went skiing off down the road in their own way. It wasn't until they work out that Daniels was right after some serious problems with the way they went about it.
Then they changed the Co-axial to work as he fundamentally intended and had originally work it out.
The Swiss haven't fully appreciated that virtually all the most notable horologists throughout history have been from other countries. Not to mention how the Japanese slapped them around quite a bit in concourses which motivated them to lift their game among other things

Very long in the tooth. Keep it more concise next time. The backhanded comments don’t help your case either. Striving to make your product “heirloom quality” just makes my point regarding the degrading accuracy of the movement in such a short period of time.

Just my opinion. Imagine getting this emotional over an online forum…

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

My point is this - Rolex knows of this systemic issue, and they haven’t addressed it in a systemic manner. For a luxury company, to keep customers in the dark like this, is pretty disappointing. You know that Rolex knows about this issue. Yet, what have they done on a company-wide basis?

Vince, we are pretty sure they know about the issue. We also know Rolex are a company that even silently fix issues we don't even know about. What is scary here is they actually might not know how to fix this... If might be something along the lines of the tolerance for a part needs to be X and currently their machines can only consistently produce to a Y and for what ever reason the issues only appear later not immediately.

I'm now firmly in the boat of no more 32xx movements.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

Frankly I’m disappointed that this issue hasn’t driven more owners away from Rolex and improved wait times at ADs.

But think of the alternative.
There would still be the same amount of defective watches out there. They'd just be potentially distributed throughout the world a little differently and it would be more widely known around the world with such a high rate of ongoing problems.

Consider this.
Perhaps this business around the Rolex shortage is indeed manufactured/orchestrated by the mothership. That way, they can limit the damage to the brand
To top it off, how's this for a conspiracy?
Maybe, just maybe the Swiss watchmaking industry is paying Rolex a subsidy(under the table) to take these measures in order to limit the damage to the Swiss.
Sort of along the lines that Rolex is too big to fail kind of theory

Just puting it out there

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Vince, we are pretty sure they know about the issue. We also know Rolex are a company that even silently fix issues we don't even know about. What is scary here is they actually might not know how to fix this... If might be something along the lines of the tolerance for a part needs to be X and currently their machines can only consistently produce to a Y and for what ever reason the issues only appear later not immediately.

I'm now firmly in the boat of no more 32xx movements.

Agree on all accounts. Hoping for a permanent fix at some point within the five year warranty.

Originally Posted by Dirt

But think of the alternative.
There would still be the same amount of defective watches out there. They'd just be potentially distributed throughout the world a little differently and it would be more widely known around the world with such a high rate of ongoing problems.

Consider this.
Perhaps this business around the Rolex shortage is indeed manufactured/orchestrated by the mothership. That way, they can limit the damage to the brand
To top it off, how's this for a conspiracy?
Maybe, just maybe the Swiss watchmaking industry is paying Rolex a subsidy(under the table) to take these measures in order to limit the damage to the Swiss.
Sort of along the lines that Rolex is too big to fail kind of theory

Just puting it out there

All plausible. I wouldn’t be surprised.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Vince, we are pretty sure they know about the issue. We also know Rolex are a company that even silently fix issues we don't even know about. What is scary here is they actually might not know how to fix this... If might be something along the lines of the tolerance for a part needs to be X and currently their machines can only consistently produce to a Y and for what ever reason the issues only appear later not immediately.

I'm now firmly in the boat of no more 32xx movements.

They all silently fix their problems as best they can.
Sometimes the fixes are better than others and movements either stop getting better or they get replaced all together.

If it wasn't for social media and their desire to trumpet how clever they are, we wouldn't be across it like we are in this day and age.
It's a double edged sword in that regard.

Quite frankly, I think that if it hadn't been for the advancements by Omega where they pushed the boundaries around longer service intervals and power reserves we probably wouldn't be having these types of conversations and Rolex would probably be very happy to be trundling along with the 31xx movements which were more than fit for purpose and at their peak of development where they are capable of meeting the relevant precision standard and getting through the warranty period before needing corrective intervention.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

Agree on all accounts. Hoping for a permanent fix at some point within the five year warranty.

some of the early DayDates and DJs are out of warranty now =(

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by amanbra

some of the early DayDates and DJs are out of warranty now =(

When was the 32xx movement first introduced?

[vesnyder]

I just received my GMT II with the 3285 movement back from the Rolex Service Center. I brought it in just after Christmas as it was losing several minutes/day. They fixed it under warranty and provided no detail on what was repaired. I've only had it back for a couple days but they seem to have fixed the problem - it is +0-3 spd.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by vince_76

when was the 32xx movement first introduced?

2015

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Dirt

They all silently fix their problems as best they can.
Sometimes the fixes are better than others and movements either stop getting better or they get replaced all together.

If it wasn't for social media and their desire to trumpet how clever they are, we wouldn't be across it like we are in this day and age.
It's a double edged sword in that regard.

Quite frankly, I think that if it hadn't been for the advancements by Omega where they pushed the boundaries around longer service intervals and power reserves we probably wouldn't be having these types of conversations and Rolex would probably be very happy to be trundling along with the 31xx movements which were more than fit for purpose and at their peak of development where they are capable of meeting the relevant precision standard and getting through the warranty period before needing corrective intervention.

Slightly disagree here, the watch industry have always tried to one up each other. They just do it at a stupid slow pace =).

Whether it was social media or just traditional media, omega and others would have been advertising longer PR, higher accuracy, etc etc.

what's different now is for consumers it's really easy for us to find out if others have facing the same issues as our own.

Now, with this drive for more and more efficiency might be leading to a situation of things becoming incredibly dependent on tolerance levels, levels their machines aren't quite there yet... From what I understand the co-axial escapement is incredibly fiddly to get right. Even down to how much and where you put the lube on the contact points on the pallet fork is much much more sensitive... Thankfully though for this innovation they appear to have ironed out the issues. My 8500 movement deville recently came back from the spa with a brand new escapement setup as part of their fix price service.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

When was the 32xx movement first introduced?

I believe it was the 3255 in 2015. Dd40.

Now how many dd40 owners would notice the issue…


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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Have you guys tried changing the watch battery?

You Moonswatch people

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by vesnyder

I just received my GMT II with the 3285 movement back from the Rolex Service Center. I brought it in just after Christmas as it was losing several minutes/day. They fixed it under warranty and provided no detail on what was repaired. I've only had it back for a couple days but they seem to have fixed the problem - it is +0-3 spd.

Let’s hope it stays that way. My dj which went to rsc twice is looking pretty good at the moment. My yellow OP which is over a year old now hasn’t deviated one bit either. It did go to rsc for a non 32xx timing related issue. Went in running +2 came back +6 but after a year still exactly the same +6. It’s great.


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[saxo3]

As one of the main contributors to this thread, since January 2021, I watch it now mainly with a broad smile.

The original goal was to collect data rather than a lot of speculations that no one can verify or falsify.

Also amusing that someone made already more than 140 posts in this thread without even owning one 32xx watch.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Slightly disagree here, the watch industry have always tried to one up each other. They just do it at a stupid slow pace =).

Whether it was social media or just traditional media, omega and others would have been advertising longer PR, higher accuracy, etc etc.

what's different now is for consumers it's really easy for us to find out if others have facing the same issues as our own.

Now, with this drive for more and more efficiency might be leading to a situation of things becoming incredibly dependent on tolerance levels, levels their machines aren't quite there yet... From what I understand the co-axial escapement is incredibly fiddly to get right. Even down to how much and where you put the lube on the contact points on the pallet fork is much much more sensitive... Thankfully though for this innovation they appear to have ironed out the issues. My 8500 movement deville recently came back from the spa with a brand new escapement setup as part of their fix price service.

I'm hearing you.
Thanks for sharing your experience with your Co-axial.
I'm a one and done with my 2403. She's a real beauty

As I've said. I'm confident Rolex would have been very happy to be trundling along with the 31xx movements and their fundamental design elements.
The only things they were playing around with were Hairsprings and it was all moving along nicely until Omega shook things up profoundly.
Either way, it's the consumer that pays the price as everything gets passed on.
In terms of horology, the only winners in this have been the Japanese again.
They've still got Quartz technology in the mix, they have the Spring drive as well as some magnificent mechanicals.
To cap it all off, for the first time in history they're able to jack prices up to be within shooting range of the Swiss. Lol.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Dirt

I'm hearing you.
Thanks for sharing your experience with your Co-axial.
I'm a one and done with my 2403. She's a real beauty

As I've said. I'm confident Rolex would have been very happy to be trundling along with the 31xx movements and their fundamental design elements.
The only things they were playing around with were Hairsprings and it was all moving along nicely until Omega shook things up profoundly.
Either way, it's the consumer that pays the price as everything gets passed on.
In terms of horology, the only winners in this have been the Japanese again.
They've still got Quartz technology in the mix, they have the Spring drive as well as some magnificent mechanicals.
To cap it all off, for the first time in history they're able to jack prices up to be within shooting range of the Swiss. Lol.

I feel the whole industry have been able to raise prices. Brietling omega to name a few.


I have a few Japanese watches they have other issues of their own. Gs won’t touch a watch with misaligned hands, their new hi beats were churned out running super fast. My biggest issue with them is their size. Watches are generally too thick.

This is all a bit irritating. I should be enjoying my dd but I’m constant worried it’s a time bomb. And unlike the dj I’m not okay with it going in and out of rsc. This was supposed to be a ten year anniversary heirloom to be pass on to my son one day…


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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by amanbra

I feel the whole industry have been able to raise prices. Brietling omega to name a few.


I have a few Japanese watches they have other issues of their own. Gs won’t touch a watch with misaligned hands, their new hi beats were churned out running super fast. My biggest issue with them is their size. Watches are generally too thick.

This is all a bit irritating. I should be enjoying my dd but I’m constant worried it’s a time bomb. And unlike the dj I’m not okay with it going in and out of rsc. This was supposed to be a ten year anniversary heirloom to be pass on to my son one day…


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Post number 140 odd and counting.
I'll tell you what. I'd rather have them running fast by any reasonable measure and staying that way, than have them going really great out of the box only to have accuracy go completely down the drain(within the warranty period and with caveats on the 10 year service intervals to cap it all off)

I hope yours works out fine in the long run.
You can always come back and check in with a new set of data points annually on the anniversary of the repair
Just try not to go over your post quota. Ok?

But you'll never convince me to go with one of those new fanged movements
I reckon, that if I had the gear and posted data pertaining to my 31xx movements year in year out over the decades to come. I'll blow those new jobs out of the water(no pun intended) over the long term even factoring in service costs and mine are well out of warranty


I do realise we are meandering off topic again.
But you get that with this type of thing
As long as nobody is being singled out for special mention or treatment that should be within reasonable limits if there's no ongoing animosity or grudges.
Besides, every family has one or two of those deplorable types

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Post number 140 odd and counting.
I'll tell you what. I'd rather have them running fast by any reasonable measure and staying that way, than have them going really great out of the box only to have accuracy go completely down the drain(within the warranty period and with caveats on the 10 year service intervals to cap it all off)

I hope yours works out fine in the long run.
You can always come back and check in with a new set of data points annually on the anniversary of the repair
Just try not to go over your post quota. Ok?

But you'll never convince me to go with one of those new fanged movements
I reckon, that if I had the gear and posted data pertaining to my 31xx movements year in year out over the decades to come. I'll blow those new jobs out of the water(no pun intended) over the long term even factoring in service costs and mine are well out of warranty


I do realise we are meandering off topic again.
But you get that with this type of thing
As long as nobody is being singled out for special mention or treatment that should be within reasonable limits if there's no ongoing animosity or grudges.
Besides, every family has one or two of those deplorable types

100 % re running fast and staying that way and

[saxo3]

A very interesting expert post

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...6&postcount=19

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by saxo3

A very interesting expert post

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...6&postcount=19

Yea, I saw that the other day. Looks like one issue that will impact the 35/55/85, but not 30. And it also sounds like fewer 30s have been in for this issue. However it seems like it's way too early to tell whether fewer of those have come through because they don't have a date wheel, or because they are newer and haven't had as much time to develop issues.

Biggest question is still: Is this a systemic issue with the movement design/execution, or some simple-to-fix problem that just wasn't accounted for during the design and testing phases?

[dannyp]

Ok, perhaps someone can help me interpret what I'm experiencing now, as it relates to amplitude, etc.

In the beginning, as I've said before, I was at an overall +0.7/day, where it would lose time when wearing/right after winding and gain time when resting overnight, for a net positive. Now I'm running a little south of -2/day. But I've noticed something interesting:

When I wear the watch, it loses approximately 0.2/hr overall. That's been pretty steady. However, it no longer gains time overnight. It's still losing time, albeit at a slower rate than -0.2/hr.

Is it possible that the watch amplitude has increased and stays high longer/the watch winds faster than it used to when worn and is holding its PR longer? Or is something likely the matter? It was on an AD's timegrapher last week, and I was told all numbers in spec.

But does the fact that most of the difference in time loss/gain rate is happening at rest mean anything?

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Biggest question is still: Is this a systemic issue with the movement design/execution, or some simple-to-fix problem that just wasn't accounted for during the design and testing phases?

I don’t think there is a simple fix. If there was one we’d have it. The 3255 came out in 2015…


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[amanbra]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Ok, perhaps someone can help me interpret what I'm experiencing now, as it relates to amplitude, etc.

In the beginning, as I've said before, I was at an overall +0.7/day, where it would lose time when wearing/right after winding and gain time when resting overnight, for a net positive. Now I'm running a little south of -2/day. But I've noticed something interesting:

When I wear the watch, it loses approximately 0.2/hr overall. That's been pretty steady. However, it no longer gains time overnight. It's still losing time, albeit at a slower rate than -0.2/hr.

Is it possible that the watch amplitude has increased and stays high longer/the watch winds faster than it used to when worn and is holding its PR longer? Or is something likely the matter? It was on an AD's timegrapher last week, and I was told all numbers in spec.

But does the fact that most of the difference in time loss/gain rate is happening at rest mean anything?

Danny I guess it’s possible your amp is up but I doubt it.

I had a ym40 do what you described and then it kept getting slower.

My sub started to do this too I sold it before I could find out if there was an issue or not. I was positive it was heading the same way as the ym…


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[saxo3]

@dannyp
Move from describing text to data posts!
Either use a cheap timegrapher or a smartphone app for timekeeping.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Danny I guess it’s possible your amp is up but I doubt it.

I had a ym40 do what you described and then it kept getting slower.

My sub started to do this too I sold it before I could find out if there was an issue or not. I was positive it was heading the same way as the ym…


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What ultimately happened with the YM? Did a single trip for service fix it?

I’ve decided to leave the watch off for maybe 24hrs or so and then see if it starts gaining again. 24hrs of rest is when amp should begin reducing for sure, right?

What’s odd is that the loss of time only increases when resting, and is consistent when worn.

Also, no watch takes 9mos to fully “break in,” does it? If this happened after a month that would be one thing, but the better part of a year makes me skeptical, too.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by saxo3

@dannyp
Move from describing text to data posts!
Either use a cheap timegrapher or a smartphone app for timekeeping.

Been using app. Need a few more days on current timing run to feel I have adequate data to share. Last couple runs were only a few days since I manually wound twice in there.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by amanbra

I don’t think there is a simple fix. If there was one we’d have it. The 3255 came out in 2015…


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I meant simple to implement but as yet undiscovered (likely due to either lack of understanding of cause or unwillingness to admit a problem exists). For example, using the current design but different materials for the pinions. Or does fixing one design flaw simply expose another?

Wondering if Rolex will just let it ride until the mechanics of the 22xx are ready to be enlarged?

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by dannyp

What ultimately happened with the YM? Did a single trip for service fix it?

I’ve decided to leave the watch off for maybe 24hrs or so and then see if it starts gaining again. 24hrs of rest is when amp should begin reducing for sure, right?

What’s odd is that the loss of time only increases when resting, and is consistent when worn.

Also, no watch takes 9mos to fully “break in,” does it? If this happened after a month that would be one thing, but the better part of a year makes me skeptical, too.

Ym was sold. I’m am not going through what I went through with my dj on a gold watch where every time they touch it it comes back with new scratches.

Yes amp reduces as pr runs out. And yea I agree it’s odd it looses time when resting when normally it didn’t. ESP if you leave it dial up or down.

You didn’t change resting position right? Like crown up or down?


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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by dannyp

What’s odd is that the loss of time only increases when resting, and is consistent when worn.

Is this increased loss of time (during rest) depending on watch position?

[amanbra]

The watchmaker saying the date change has an issue actually is ringing true.

So my dd40 on a timegrapher dial up always shows about 0spd. But when left dial up over night always comes up -2. I did wonder if the double date change was taxing on the movement during the chang period.


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