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ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
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#1 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Taipei
Posts: 103
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Chanel and MB&F Announce Partnership
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#2 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Earth
Watch: Lange
Posts: 149
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Max and his team deserve the payday, and I’ve enjoyed some of Chanel’s pieces. Looking forward to what it brings.
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#3 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 664
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Well. Not sure I like this. You can debate ownership % and day to day decision-making, but at what point do you simply become part of a conglomerate similar to Lange, VC, Breguet. Same applies to FPJ of course.
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#4 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: NY
Watch: Voutilainen (2030)
Posts: 756
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Happy for Max and the rest of the MB&F team. I try not to be pessimistic about things like this so I hope it’s only good things for the brand going forward. I’m not a current owner but hope to be one someday.
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#5 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,950
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Quote:
Think of it aa an inoculation that prevents disease. Chanel coming in as minority stakeholder prevents possiblitlity of having to sell out to a conglomerate later. |
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#6 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: Glocal
Posts: 20,487
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#7 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 664
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I understand the idea. But what’s the difference between a Vacheron being owned by Richemont or FPJ and MB&F being partially owned by Chanel, which similarly does all kinds of luxury goods, fragrances etc. Is it just the %?
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#8 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: Glocal
Posts: 20,487
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Fully powned versus just a minor stakeholder.
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#9 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,900
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Love it. Good for him.
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#10 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 664
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Sure - i’m just nitpicking here. Think where I was going is where does an independent stop being an independent. Would 49% shareholding still be ok, what if Chanel sets sales targets or volume growth. These guys are not in it for the love of it. It’s a slippery slope. After De Bethune, FPJ, Parmigiani, MB&F looks like we’re saying goodbye to the fully independent manufacturers of old. Not very romantic, but perhaps not a problem at all and being part of a larger group is just needed to secure the long-term viability.
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#11 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,605
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25% or more or less than 25%, it's still a significant change to day to day business for an independent business that is used to being fully independent. Now it could bring a benefit to operational efficiencies or shared resources or access to talent etc., which should help them lower their prices and increase profitability. It could also create internal strife and grief...we shall see.
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#12 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2016
Real Name: Darren
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 649
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Happy for Max and the team, and hope it all works out great and there's many more great timepieces to come.
It's my favorite independent brand
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#13 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Watch: addiction issues
Posts: 37,173
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Based on what we have seen from journe I don’t foresee any forcing of the hand by Chanel. Journe could have doubled or tripled production in the last decade and chooses not to. I see this as positive news for MBF just as I did for FPJ. I don’t see how it’s any relation to richemont brands that are entirely owned and many have long been detached from the founding families etc
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#14 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,950
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Quote:
Vacheron is owned wholly and is affected by the need to generate short term shareholder value. Chanel is privately owned by a guy who collects watches. And he takes a minority stake that gives the watch company liquidity in the event of market ups and downs but does not change the direction or values or freedom of the watchmakers to execute their vision, but rather supports these. As a p.s. what people miss is that FPJ was, from early on, fronted by a group of investors who are watch loving friends of François-Paul. The head of Chanel is just one of these exact types of personal friends of FP who came in to join the others and support FP's work. |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 664
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There can certainly be a difference - but to me as a collector it becomes a sliding scale and a matter of degree, with full independence (financial, strategy, marketing, watchmaking) and group-owned (focus on short-term shareholder value) at the extreme ends of the spectrum. Once you sell a stake in your business to secure third-party financing, at the very least you’re no longer financially independent. You will also naturally lose a certain degree of control over the direction of the brand, there’s no free lunch in the end. So are you still truly an “independent” in the strict sense of the word, and does that even matter to collectors. Put differently - would collectors prefer the old MB&F or the new MB&F, assuming of course that both set-ups would be equally viable long-term?
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#16 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: los angeles
Posts: 292
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#17 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
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One thing I found funny is that the only complain I have with any MB&F watches is the deployant buckle and it is the part supplied by Chanel. ![]() Only time will tell but the most example I can think of was LVMH's attempted hostile takeover of Hermes. And fortunately the heirs were able to fend off LVMH. |
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#18 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
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Watch: addiction issues
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Not that it matters but Chanel’s stake in FPJ is 20% not 25.
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#19 |
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,900
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They’ve done a good job with FPJ and Gauthier.
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#20 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Watch: Yachtmaster
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Good for them. Chanel knows a thing or two about running a business and maintaining brand value
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#21 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: Glocal
Posts: 20,487
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+1
And Chanel have a stake in Kenissi (Tudor, etc). ![]()
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__________________ Love timepieces and want to become a Watchmaker? Rolex has a sensational school. www.RolexWatchmakingTrainingCenter.com/ Sent from my Etch A Sketch using String Theory. |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Real Name: Mike
Location: Socal
Watch: AP/PP/Rolex
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At 25% equity, Chanel won't have a say in the operation of the business. Max is in full control. The only caveat is how the exit clause is written. If Chanel decides to sell their shares and exit the business, how does Max come up with the funds to buy them out? That would be the only poison pill that could affect the decision making process day to day. If an internal strife should happen, the threat of pulling out by Chanel can upset the cards.
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#23 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
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#24 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,900
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Quote:
Likely just lever up and complete the buyout. I just did this with one of my cos last year. It’s common. |
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#25 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: NYC
Posts: 452
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#26 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
Only time will tell. My concern with independents is long term serviceability of their watches and investment from Chanel will likely help in that aspect. In the meantime, let's enjoy it while it is still great. ![]() |
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#27 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2019
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Posts: 452
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#28 | |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Watch: addiction issues
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I would think there are financial/tax benefits to using the business to make the investment?
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#29 |
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: NYC
Posts: 452
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Possibly, not knowing enough about Chanel, the CEO, or EU accounting I haven't a clue. It's an asset and given the value of Chanel I imagine the founder would have had no problem getting it financed personally if he wanted.
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#30 | |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Watch: addiction issues
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I’d love to see this guys watch collection. Imagine the one offs lol
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