Rolex is getting a little cheap, starting to bother me

[Atl]

Good even all,
Had a good day, fell in love with another watch, and was helped by a stunning blonde, Sharon, at Neimans in Atlanta.
I bought a Jeager LeCoultre Reverso there about ten years ago, and while I love it, it, not being water proof, leather strap, and seems to me to be a little fragile (probably not) I just don't wear it much. So, today, just to kill some time, I walked in just to see what's new, when Sharon approached me and asked if I wanted to see the new Frank Muller's, I declined (do not like them at all) I then asked if I could see the new JLC's, when I saw it.... new larger case, complications, see-thru back, a new Reverso! I had to touch it, wind it, fall in love with it, I did not want to put it back, and when I saw the price, $7,000.00, I said, a Reverso with complications(reserve de marche, 8 day power reserve, and date), with a window to see the stunning workings inside when you flip it over? Then Sharon said that they could knock the price down a little because this is their slow period of the year, I didn't even ask for a discount! What a great day! I have to have this watch!
So, you might be asking, why the title "Rolex is getting cheap" I'll tell you why. As I was leaving, I was handed a Jeager catalog, not a catalog, a hard bound, 3/4" thick BOOK! Have any of you ever gotten a Rolex catalog from your retailer? Ever? Did you end up with a small folded one page pamphlet, or a tiny thin little 4" paper book? Or, most likely, NOTHING ?
And what about the missing anchors with our new Subs? That still bothers me. Yes it is trivial, but I have all three from my previous Subs since my first one in college. I was convinced my AD took mine as I could not believe my new Sub did not come with one, and felt like an asshole, when I went back to apologise, because he was right.
Another thing, we have an awsome site here, the best on the web, and we are all big fans, would it not be too much to ask for Rolex to recognise us, and maybe want to include their-selves in our family? A guest letter, a special event at an AD with all of us invited? A news letter or prior knowledge of a new product such as when the new GMT II will be coming out in stainless, before others know. A Q&A session online with us, something?
You know, when Roll Royce brought out their new car, I can remember them holding private parties at the dealerships all around the US
for their past customers, and previewing the car to them before anyone else. Neimans has In-Circle parties where the close the store to everyone else except their best customers, it makes us feel special.
If you think about it, we are their BEST salesmen, our passion and pride of ownership shows whenever someone approaches us and shows a keen interest in our watch. And another point, I have been invited to tour Jeager LeCoultre's factory, other manufactures offer the same, why not Rolex???

I LOVE my Rolex watches very much, I just wish sometimes, Rolex loved us back a little.

David

[JJ Irani]

Good post, David...and some very valid points. Yes, the one thing I've disliked about Rolex is their stinginess and "cheapness".

I've owned 6 Subs in my life - received anchors with all of my previous ones except the last one. That never bothered me....the anchor I've always considered a POS and bloody useless.

But why can't they instead give us a nice key-ring for our keys...something very ornamental with their logo on it. I managed to get one from my AD, but I think Rolex should have it as standard giveaway with every Rolex that a customer picks up!!

JJ

[s7horton]

Man, I'd LOVE to have a Rolex key chain. I know that my dealer would never give me one of those. Nice find!

Well David, Rolex does only what it has to to sell their watches, which in reality isn't much. Not because there are so many watch people like us around, but simply because it's a status symbol for 90% (or more) of those who buy them.

On the other hand, JLC is all about watches. Yes, they need to make money like any other business, but seem to be a company that bends over backwards for their customers and potential customers. Thier catalogue is much more than just a book of watches, but has the brand's history in it - I read mine cover to cover.

On other watch sites I have seen that JLC (and others) do put on events for watch people, and they have an event where you can learn how to work on one of their movements (lead by one of their watchmakers). Tours of the factory are welcome, and they have launch parties for new models that look fantastic from the pictures I've seen. In my opinion JLC is not only one of the best values in the watch world, with their innovations and staggering number of in-house movements, but they are also a company that appreciates the customer rather than just the customer's dollars or euros.

I am not terribly interested in trinkets from Rolex, but maybe a little more respect for their cutomers would be a good thing.

By the way, I love the reverso, but it never looks quite right on my wrist. I hope you are able to get the watch (I love my Master Moon and would seriously never part with it).

Originally Posted by Avalon

On other watch sites I have seen that JLC (and others) do put on events for watch people, and they have an event where you can learn how to work on one of their movements (lead by one of their watchmakers).

Our boy Shane (Southern Jessie) was invited to one of these events and from what I remember, he quite enjoyed it, although they didn't let him take any watches home gratis.

[Rockrolex]

I hear you, David. I happened to stop in to the Mayors in Boca Raton last year (as I usually do when I'm down there) and got to looking at some of the new JLC's (after perusing their Rolex stock, of course). As I was leaving (not having made a purchase - but of course wearing my GMT), the salesman handed me the JLC book. Like Al, I've read it cover to cover, and it has become a coffee table book. The rhetorical question is: Why can't Rolex do something like that? The rhetorical answer - because they don't need to. It's that simple.

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

Why can't Rolex do something like that? The rhetorical answer - because they don't need to. It's that simple.

They don't need to for 99% of their customers, but it would be nice if they did certain things that other manufacturers do for their ardent fans/supporters. I mean the head of Panerai USA/Canada is reasonably accessible to www.paneristi.com and viapaneristi.com (and other sites) as is the Panerai CEO Angelo Bonati. THey both post on the sites periodically, attend the odd paneristi event and even make certain special editions available only to certain collectors.

Panerai has a better display box than Rolex (hands down) and they produce things like historical books, daytimers, hats, shirts and other trinkets for good customers. It's not a big deal, but the fans like them.

Rolex could win over a lot of their WIS fans if they did some of this. It would also be nice if RUSA was bought out by Rolex themselves, to give you Yanks better service and the A4 size catalogue the rest of the civilized world gets.

[Launch Mini]

I forgot to mention that Jaeger book. I received one also.
It is truly a book, not a catalogue.

[C.J.]

Great post, David Like you said, we are the brands best salespeople, I'm not a fan of their trinkets. I think if and when we do come across them, we only help to further advertise their brand. I recently got a Rolex hat for a friend. I almost felt like I was asking for their first born child I have to dig and scratch for every little percent I can get knocked off of the watch at the time of purchase, so why would I ever want to advertise for them by wearing or displaying an item with their emblem on it?

It's sad that this is how most of us feel about a company whose product we admire so much. A little appreciation from them would go a long way

[mike]

Originally Posted by Avalon

I am not terribly interested in trinkets from Rolex, but maybe a little more respect for their cutomers would be a good thing.

Well said Al,
I remember the day when you bought a new Rolex and,among other things, you got the Chronometer certificate showing it's test results in different positions.
You had the feeling you not only bought a watch but the support and friendship of the company.
I remember the day that if I needed a new bezel inset for a sub or GMT my AD popped in a new one while I watched and sent me on my way.
I remember the day if I needed a new bracelet my AD had one for me, and gave me the old one back.
I remember the day when I bought my GMT, my AD said It will last a lifetime-- I assumed he was talking about MY lifetime.


Today, with Rolex curtailing support for certain vintage pieces and not servicing certain watches with "exotic" dials, I can only say Rolex, they weren't "exotic" when I bought them, and if you don't have a part--MAKE IT!

I have a great love and respect for the brand,sadly, the company has left me wanting.

Rant off.

[REXMTL]

Originally Posted by Atomic

They don't need to for 99% of their customers, but it would be nice if they did certain things that other manufacturers do for their ardent fans/supporters. I mean the head of Panerai USA/Canada is reasonably accessible to www.paneristi.com and viapaneristi.com (and other sites) as is the Panerai CEO Angelo Bonati. THey both post on the sites periodically, attend the odd paneristi event and even make certain special editions available only to certain collectors.

Panerai has a better display box than Rolex (hands down) and they produce things like historical books, daytimers, hats, shirts and other trinkets for good customers. It's not a big deal, but the fans like them.

Rolex could win over a lot of their WIS fans if they did some of this. It would also be nice if RUSA was bought out by Rolex themselves, to give you Yanks better service and the A4 size catalogue the rest of the civilized world gets.

Very good point about Panerai and Paneristi.com. I just went to my AD to try on a Panerai (considring one) and I was given the "catalogue" which was actualy "Panerai Historia" (with the subtitle of "From The Depths Of The Sea") ... Very nice....
I think Rolex has perhaps fallen into the trap of becoming too comfortable with the success that they have had. I personally feel that thay tend to take this success for granted and as such also take us for granted....
I love the brand , and wouldn't swap my Sub for anything but I do wish that the company would invest more time, money and of themselves into the people who have made them what they are today.
Just MHO

[hutchman]

I too like the look of JLC watches and IMO there movements are superior to Rolex but I would never buy one for the simple reason of the resale. With the exception of the Pam190 with the JLC 8 day movement. I have seen some AD's offering 30-40% off retail on most of the JLC line with some obvious exceptions.

IMO most people buy a Rolex watch for what it represents not for what it actually is or the accessories it comes with!

[Earl]

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

I hear you, David. I happened to stop in to the Mayors in Boca Raton last year (as I usually do when I'm down there) and got to looking at some of the new JLC's (after perusing their Rolex stock, of course). As I was leaving (not having made a purchase - but of course wearing my GMT), the salesman handed me the JLC book. Like Al, I've read it cover to cover, and it has become a coffee table book. The rhetorical question is: Why can't Rolex do something like that? The rhetorical answer - because they don't need to. It's that simple.

Hmmmm, Ed to take this one step further, does your answer mean that JLC needs to do this to keep business?

Does JLC support charity as much as Rolex?
Is JLC privately owned as Rolex?
Does JLC promote their brand as much as Rolex.

Don't tell me they don't have to due to the quality of their watch, and Rolex doesn't give out this type of promo gifts because?

Just my observations and 2 cents :o)

[Goodwatch]

Let me begin by saying I’m a sucker for those little ‘extras’. My Caran d’Ache pen came in a beautiful wooden box lined with alcantara. Would it write worse if it came in a little plastic box? No! Does the wooden box add to the price? Yes. But it’s just that little extra attention that makes a fine object even better as a package. Rolex don’t have to do anything to sell their watches. (But they still advertise). Even if the watches came in a brown paper bag they would be sold. So no beautiful wooden boxes, no elaborate warranty schemes (like Cartier used to have), no extras. Why should they? One of the answers could be: respect for your customers and the desire to do a little extra. Not because they have to but because they want to. Is it because in their corner of the market, they have no competition? Without competition and with customers who snatch your products from your hands, why would you bother anyway?

Is the part of the quaint way Rolex always operates? No yearly account of sales figures, no shareholders, a family owned trust, an iron grip on AD’s, an iron grip on pricing, etc., etc. This looks more like a monopolist than a normal business. Do they care about their image? I don’t know, the watches stay the same for decades and real innovations hardly occur. But a large part of the customer base, who only buy the name and the image couldn’t care less. Like most of the people around us. An automatic is a kinetic watch that doesn’t need a battery and was invented by Seiko about 10 years ago. And what do YOU know about it anyway, they say. Nothing, nothing, your absolutely right.

Originally Posted by Earl

Hmmmm, Ed to take this one step further, does your answer mean that JLC needs to do this to keep business?

Does JLC support charity as much as Rolex?
Is JLC privately owned as Rolex?
Does JLC promote their brand as much as Rolex.

Don't tell me they don't have to due to the quality of their watch, and Rolex doesn't give out this type of promo gifts because?

Just my observations and 2 cents :o)

I guess I don't get the point of your points, Earl. In addition to answering some of your own questions, you appear to be saying that the charity work Rolex does somehow makes up for treating their customers poorly in many respects. Seems to me to be a different topic altogether, and not related to the issues discussed here (i.e. watch collecting and treatment of collectors).

I guess my answer to the charity aspect of Rolex would be; just because you do some good things, doesn't mean you're not still an a$$hole - case in point, Lance Armstrong.....

[colemanitis]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

An automatic is a kinetic watch that doesn’t need a battery and was invented by Seiko about 10 years ago.

A year ago I would've agreed with this statement. It's amazing to think Rolex had incorporated this technology into their watches in the early 30's.

Don't forget, last year Rolex spent $43.66 million on global advertising, which for basically a niche market company is a staggering budget. In fact, it's almost as much as what TAG, Citizen and Movado spent last year combined, on advertising (and they're the next three biggest spenders in the watch world).

Consider Cartier only spent 5.89 million on watch ads last year and PP only $5.37 million (and also consider they buy ads in magazines that cost way more than say Road & Track, where Rolex always has an ad).

By spending such a huge sum of money on advertising seems somewhat unnecessary to me (who works in public relations) given the depth and scope of the company's reputation and brand recognition. In fact, only two watch brands made the top 100 most recognizable corporate brands in the world... Rolex and Cartier, and yet Cartier spent 35 million-odd less than Rolex in advertising.

Yes, Rolex is a decent corporate citizen from a sponsorship, humanitarian, etc., standpoint. But I think if they took a more grass roots view of their die-hard customers, they wouldn't have supporters of the brand leave (and you guys know who you are ;~) and move on to other brands, is my guess.

[Launch Mini]

The advertising budgets are a bit misleading.
These include huge sponsorships such as Wimbledon, Yacht races, Auto sponsorships.
Once these guys start these events, it is difficult to pull out without possible severe repercussions from a publicity point of view.

[Launch Mini]

On the topic of Swag, I have been patiently waiting for Panerai to send me the Yacht Caps I was supposed to have received upon registering my watch, back in Feb 2006.
There was a rumour , that they were not shipping to Canadian customers.
I just got off the phone from my AD, she has not heard this and has had customers who've received the product. Panerai is apparently slow in the delivery, but I have been assured, they will be coming.
( Atomic, your's should be in the system also)

Originally Posted by Launch Mini

I just got off the phone from my AD, she has not heard this and has had customers who've received the product. Panerai is apparently slow in the delivery, but I have been assured, they will be coming.
( Atomic, your's should be in the system also)

Woo Hoo!

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Don't forget, last year Rolex spent $43.66 million on global advertising, which for basically a niche market company is a staggering budget. In fact, it's almost as much as what TAG, Citizen and Movado spent last year combined, on advertising (and they're the next three biggest spenders in the watch world).

Consider Cartier only spent 5.89 million on watch ads last year and PP only $5.37 million (and also consider they buy ads in magazines that cost way more than say Road & Track, where Rolex always has an ad).

By spending such a huge sum of money on advertising seems somewhat unnecessary to me (who works in public relations) given the depth and scope of the company's reputation and brand recognition. In fact, only two watch brands made the top 100 most recognizable corporate brands in the world... Rolex and Cartier, and yet Cartier spent 35 million-odd less than Rolex in advertising.

Yes, Rolex is a decent corporate citizen from a sponsorship, humanitarian, etc., standpoint. But I think if they took a more grass roots view of their die-hard customers, they wouldn't have supporters of the brand leave (and you guys know who you are ;~) and move on to other brands, is my guess.

Excellent info, Johnny. Thanks!

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Excellent info, Johnny. Thanks!

Hey, I'm not just another pretty face.

[sub2004]

Hi Friends

I do believe that all above made valid points on the topic.

For my "2 cents" it could be an element of exclusivity that rolex tries to preserve for the serious buyers. i.e. those customers who spend big bucks on rolex without having an internal love that we do of the brand.

For example i remeber when Omega started getting into the "trinket" market whereby wall clocks, shirts, caps etc could be obtained without too much difficulty. IMHO it cheapened the brand.

The same thing happened to a few "big" car brands: BMW, Ferrari started doing licensed apparell like shirts, pens, caps etc and that cheapened the brand back in the day.

Such items are still available, but albeit in a reduced amount. I remeber a decade ago when lots of people who didnt own the product still had an official team or brand jacket. Psycholigically this may upset certain niche buyers that Rolex caters for.

I also agree with the supply/demand argument;

I'm a lawyer. I charge $x for a commercial agreement or a legal opinion. The advice or work has certain set parameters upon which i do the work and charge the time scale or set fee. Why on earth would i want to spend an extra 2-3 hours "tweaking" or "making it better" when it does the job just fine and 99% of clients are perfectly happy. Two main factors: If i just started to "hand out extras" with the work, the "key" clients would not come anymore as they pay for a certain exclusivity with the legal work and 2nd if i started adding extras i would have to charge for it.

But yes, it would be nice to get some acknowledgment...

Originally Posted by sub2004

Why on earth would i want to spend an extra 2-3 hours "tweaking" or "making it better" when it does the job just fine and 99% of clients are perfectly happy. Two main factors: If i just started to "hand out extras" with the work, the "key" clients would not come anymore as they pay for a certain exclusivity with the legal work and 2nd if i started adding extras i would have to charge for it.

But yes, it would be nice to get some acknowledgment...

Hey nice post. However, Mercedes Benz brought about AMG for niche clients who wanted that extra 'tweaking' and BMW has Alpina and M versions for that same reason.

I was recently at a Ferrari event and while there were 45 cars participating, there were literally hundreds of people wearing Ferrari adorned shirts, hats, etc.

It doesn't cheapen the brand, IMHO. I also think that when a company like Rolex pounds out 30,000 watches a day for about a one million a year, it's not really THAT exclusive. Not one bit.

Case in point... Panerai produces about 35,000 units a year, yet they produce all the trinkets and senior staff get involved with forum members at the grass roots level. The passion among paneristi is unrivaled with Rolex fans.

Ideally, I would think Rolex could have a special corporate unit that looks after the die-hards that would only build business and spread passion for the brand.

Only doing what you have to do to make a sale will only get you so far.

[mike]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Ideally, I would think Rolex could have a special corporate unit that looks after the die-hards that would only build business and spread passion for the brand.

EXACTLY!!

[Goodwatch]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Case in point... Panerai produces about 35,000 units a year,

I keep reading about those 35,000 watches a year. Where is this published? I say this because I think there’s something wrong with this number. Why is it that I can buy a Panerai without effort (and even a great number second hand), even in a small country like mine? Are there waiting lists? Not that I’m aware of. 35,000 watches for the entire globe is so little these watches must be rarer than a Dutchman giving away money. And yet they are not. Now there are a couple of possibilities: a. the brand is unknown to the great public (not, fakes are abundant), b. the brand is not very popular (I wouldn’t know this) or the number is incorrect. Don’t you think that number of 35,000 watches is at least a bit illogical? When I wanted to buy a run of the mill 16610 in 2000 I was put on a waiting list for crying out loud. For a mass produced watch. And I can buy a Panny if I want to tomorrow. What gives? This is not an attempt to start a row, I’m just wondering.

[Launch Mini]

I think the demand for Panerai is high amongst a certain group, but generally the Company name is not that well known outside this group.
The production is easy to determine, each watch has a production number & production run. They do have a number of models, but if you add up the total production runs and models, you get the 35,000.
I have read, in some Panerai publication, they are keeping the runs down to 35,000 But will up this number to 40,000 ( the Ferrari Line up will increase the numbers)
Now, where I live, (Vancouver) the demand is very high. They manage to sell all they receive, usually before the next shipment arrives. This includes the rediculously prices ones also ( Over $15,000)

[Launch Mini]

I work with numbers all day, and tend to get immune to the large numbers thrown around.
I made fun of the 1,000,000/ year club. Yes , it is a large number, but break it down further. Lets just assume , the only market is USA & Canada. There are over 350,000,000 people. That breaks down to only 1 in 350 buying a Rolex in any year. Now you add the millions in Europe & abroad, those numbers don't look so big anymore.

[Atl]

Originally Posted by Earl

Hmmmm, Ed to take this one step further, does your answer mean that JLC needs to do this to keep business?

Does JLC support charity as much as Rolex?
Is JLC privately owned as Rolex?
Does JLC promote their brand as much as Rolex.

Don't tell me they don't have to due to the quality of their watch, and Rolex doesn't give out this type of promo gifts because?

Just my observations and 2 cents :o)

Charity? No idea
Privately owned? I do believe so, I know that they are fiercely independant.
Promotion? No, but they don't produce the profit from 700,000+ watches each year like Rolex does either. Come to think of it, other than seeing a Reverso on Pierce in the Thomas Crown Affair movie, I do not see much advertising.

But I do dearly love my GMT, and Subbies, I just hope they can get along with their new brother. Sometimes it's great to be single, I see something I want, and just do it! Plus Maria Sharapovia is still not answering her phone.

[Atl]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Hey nice post. However, Mercedes Benz brought about AMG for niche clients who wanted that extra 'tweaking' and BMW has Alpina and M versions for that same reason.

I was recently at a Ferrari event and while there were 45 cars participating, there were literally hundreds of people wearing Ferrari adorned shirts, hats, etc.

It doesn't cheapen the brand, IMHO. I also think that when a company like Rolex pounds out 30,000 watches a day for about a one million a year, it's not really THAT exclusive. Not one bit.

Case in point... Panerai produces about 35,000 units a year, yet they produce all the trinkets and senior staff get involved with forum members at the grass roots level. The passion among paneristi is unrivaled with Rolex fans.

Ideally, I would think Rolex could have a special corporate unit that looks after the die-hards that would only build business and spread passion for the brand.

Only doing what you have to do to make a sale will only get you so far.

Brilliantly well put, and exactly what I was driving at, I do not want Rolex hats, cups, and T-shirts. Look, there are quite a few of us with more than one of their contemporary watches, if you do that with the finest from Maranello, have more than one, and the passion, the Company acknowledges this by "inviting" you to place an order for the new Enzo.
Example: Atomic is dreaming of purchasing a s/s Daytona, Rolex finds out from Atomic's AD that he is a passionate multi owner, so Rolex has one shipped just for him, no one else. Atomic pays for it of course. I am sure Rolex can/has records on consumer purchases and could find this out without even the AD. Ferrari does.
JJ is found to be the biggest, most passionate Rolex owner in all of Kiwi land, they drop him a note that the newly designed GMT-II in stainless is coming, and they would like to extend the invitation to him to be one of the first to own one.
I WANT MY ROLEX FACTORY TOUR DAMNIT!
I want to be invited to be able to purchase hard to find models as a thank you for being a loyal and passionate customer, for owning more than one, which I am sure if I WAS married, would get a lot of grief for.

Okay, it's time for me to take my Xanax, getting off my soap box.
Love you all, David