Pardon my ignorance!

[red wrx]

This forums has been one very helpful, I love watches specially Rolex. I've a Sub TT Blue beautiful and this is maybe my 5th post in TRF. I am trying to learn more about fine watches and the way they work. I was surprised when I heard in this forum that if a Rolex is running -4 to +6 seconds every 24 hrs. is between the normal specs. But at the same time I though that Rolex were famous for precision in time. My question is a regular watch maybe a Quartz Seiko, a digital Casio or a Bulova has the same loss in time accuracy. I though that only defective watches or low quality watches were the ones that were not accurate I mean the ones that loose time.

Is normal to any automatic watch the "loss of time" I don’t know the right word.

I still like Rolex but I need to learn more, since I am 26 yrs old not too many of my friend share the same passion for watches. Is any good book that can help me to learn and to get more knowledge about watches preferably Rolex.

Thanks again TRF!

[Launch Mini]

The COSC is a body that "certifies" automatic watches. These watches must meet this variance in accuracy.
Don't forget, a watch that it 6 seconds a day out, is still 99.997% accurate.
Most , if not all, Rolex's ( and other auto's) can be fine tuned to be extremely accurate.
Yes it is true, cheaper quartz watches keep better time, But most of the automatics that we admire around here, are more works of art that also manage to keep very accurate time.
Read some of the old posts around here, there are some very interesting topics and facts to be read.
I think what fascinates many of us, is the fact that there are real, many are man made, tiny pieces assembled inside these wonderful cases. They are subject to extreme conditions in a wristwatch, yet still will last generations when properly maintained.
Welcome to the forum, stick around & ask many questions.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by red wrx

This forums has been one very helpful, I love watches specially Rolex. I've a Sub TT Blue beautiful and this is maybe my 5th post in TRF. I am trying to learn more about fine watches and the way they work. I was surprised when I heard in this forum that if a Rolex is running -4 to +6 seconds every 24 hrs. is between the normal specs. But at the same time I though that Rolex were famous for precision in time. My question is a regular watch maybe a Quartz Seiko, a digital Casio or a Bulova has the same loss in time accuracy. I though that only defective watches or low quality watches were the ones that were not accurate I mean the ones that loose time.

Is normal to any automatic watch the "loss of time" I don’t know the right word.

I still like Rolex but I need to learn more, since I am 26 yrs old not too many of my friend share the same passion for watches. Is any good book that can help me to learn and to get more knowledge about watches preferably Rolex.

Thanks again TRF!

Hi Red,

I appreciate your strong passion for the Rolex brand. All mechanical watches are subject to variance in timings. Most Rolex watches are Chronometer certified and are pretty accurate.....tolerances can be adjusted to near ZERO deviation if need be.

I've had my Sub-date just over five months now and it's unerring accuracy is simply mind-blowing.

With a Rolex, you don't just pay for accuracy....you also pay for quality, sturdiness, reliability and a watch that is simply quite supreme in the Horological world.

With a Rolex you simply can't go wrong!!

JJ

[Gedanken]

Okay, let's get down to brass tacks here.

All things being equal, a quartz movement is much more accurate than a mechanical movement - quartz movements are more easily regulated because they are electronic. To put it in very basic (if inaccurate) terms, think about it in terms of CDs and LPs. CD sound quality is much easier to maintain because digital sound is much more easily controlled. On the other hand, a high-quality analog recording is much harder ( and more expensive) to produce because the quality of each component in both the recording and playback processes needs to be much higher.

COSC recognises this and the accuracy rates they employ for mechanical watches and quartz watches are different. For a mechanical watch, the tolerances are -4 to +6 seconds a day, while a quartz watch needs to be within 7/100 of one second a day.

The bottom line is that while a quartz movement running at +2 seconds a day is within mechanical COSC specs, it's not within quartz COSC specs and therefore does not qualify.

By the way, the COSC tolerances for mechanical pocket watches is also tighter than those of mechanical wrist watches (-2 to +5).

For further reading, check out http://www.timezone.com/library/wbor...33384647656250. One interesting thing is that Rolex's 2235 movement (found in their ladies' watches) is apparently the most accurate mechanical movement around. Go figure.

If you want to read up about Rolex, I would recommend John Brozek's "The Rolex Report" and "Vintage Rolex Sports Models" by Martin Skeet and Nick Urul. Both are available from Amazon at reasonable prices.

[red wrx]

Thanks guys great replies!!

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

One interesting thing is that Rolex's 2235 movement (found in their ladies' watches) is apparently the most accurate mechanical movement around. Go figure.

Hey James,

Just wait till I tell Zemina this!! You have just about made her day and weekend too!!

BTW, what's your source for this info? I am truly interested. Any links, etc.?

My wifey's TT YM - 29 mm....with the calibre 2235.



Thanks - JJ

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

BTW, what's your source for this info? I am truly interested. Any links, etc.?



Thanks - JJ

His AD...

Originally Posted by Atomic

His AD...

ROFLMAO!!!!

[Goodwatch]

Maybe a small addition from the crazy clogger. To get such a degree of accuracy from a movement that size is an accomplishment in itself. Chronometers as once used on ships are much larger and housed in special enclosures, using gimbals to keep it level at all times. A wristwatch is never level and never at the same temperature.

The fact that quartz based analogue watches were COSC approvable from the start (without having to be very elaborate) has led to another COSC category for these watches. Expect a deviation of 1 second a month. It also ended the competition between a number of major watch manufacturers to produce the most accurate mechanical chronometer. Quartz watches made an end to this, no competition.

What not many people realize is that it is just the movements, stripped from all but the time function are tested and certified, not the complete watches. How the movements perform once they are placed inside the casing doesn’t seem to be important after that.

And it is just that mechanical aspect of these watches that pushes me towards them. There is still something mysterious and magical about them that intrigues me. Just like the apparent paradox of the analogue turntable with arm and MC cartridge vs. the CD player. SystemDek II, Mission 774 arm. Kiseki Blue and Siltech wiring. And then a direct cut record. Forget the slight hiss, just enjoy the music. Same with fine mechanical watches. Forget the lost battle to quartz. These things still have heart and soul!

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

Maybe a small addition from the crazy clogger. To get such a degree of accuracy from a movement that size is an accomplishment in itself. Chronometers as once used on ships are much larger and housed in special enclosures, using gimbals to keep it level at all times. A wristwatch is never level and never at the same temperature.

The fact that quartz based analogue watches were COSC approvable from the start (without having to be very elaborate) has led to another COSC category for these watches. Expect a deviation of 1 second a month. It also ended the competition between a number of major watch manufacturers to produce the most accurate mechanical chronometer. Quartz watches made an end to this, no competition.

What not many people realize is that it is just the movements, stripped from all but the time function are tested and certified, not the complete watches. How the movements perform once they are placed inside the casing doesn’t seem to be important after that.

And it is just that mechanical aspect of these watches that pushes me towards them. There is still something mysterious and magical about them that intrigues me. Just like the apparent paradox of the analogue turntable with arm and MC cartridge vs. the CD player. SystemDeck II, Mission 774 arm. Kiseli Blue and Siltech wiring. And then a direct cut record. Forget the slight hiss, just enjoy the music. Same with fine mechanical watches. Forget the lost battle to quartz. These things still have heart and soul!

Nice post, Frans. Heart & Soul is correct!!

[C.J.]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

Maybe a small addition from the crazy clogger. To get such a degree of accuracy from a movement that size is an accomplishment in itself. Chronometers as once used on ships are much larger and housed in special enclosures, using gimbals to keep it level at all times. A wristwatch is never level and never at the same temperature.

The fact that quartz based analogue watches were COSC approvable from the start (without having to be very elaborate) has led to another COSC category for these watches. Expect a deviation of 1 second a month. It also ended the competition between a number of major watch manufacturers to produce the most accurate mechanical chronometer. Quartz watches made an end to this, no competition.

What not many people realize is that it is just the movements, stripped from all but the time function are tested and certified, not the complete watches. How the movements perform once they are placed inside the casing doesn’t seem to be important after that.

And it is just that mechanical aspect of these watches that pushes me towards them. There is still something mysterious and magical about them that intrigues me. Just like the apparent paradox of the analogue turntable with arm and MC cartridge vs. the CD player. SystemDeck II, Mission 774 arm. Kiseki Blue and Siltech wiring. And then a direct cut record. Forget the slight hiss, just enjoy the music. Same with fine mechanical watches. Forget the lost battle to quartz. These things still have heart and soul!

I'm impressed

[Goodwatch]

It's how I feel guys. I don't give hoot if someone's $30 quartz watch outperforms every expensive mechanical watch. Any watch above say, $100, is insane if you only take the primary function into account. That's why we are here and that's why I'll seldom discuss this with 'mere mortals'. Explaining why you would shell out over $3500 for a mere watch is a waste of time.

[C.J.]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

It's how I feel guys. I don't give hoot if someone's $30 quartz watch outperforms every expensive mechanical watch. Any watch above say, $100, is insane if you only take the primary function into account. That's why we are here and that's why I'll seldom discuss this with 'mere mortals'. Explaining why you would shell out over $3500 for a mere watch is a waste of time.

I do love the looks on their faces when I try to explain it to a non-WIS though And the ever present questions "How much does that thing cost?" and "what else can it do aside from telling time?" They just don't get it

[Goodwatch]

Originally Posted by C.J.

I do love the looks on their faces when I try to explain it to a non-WIS though And the ever present questions "How much does that thing cost?" and "what else can it do aside from telling time?" They just don't get it

Ahhh, the "can it only tell time?" remark. Universal. Yes, it can only tell time. And it isn't even made of gold. And I know you can do just as well with your $10 cornflakes watch. Sigh.

[C.J.]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

Ahhh, the "can it only tell time?" remark. Universal. Yes, it can only tell time. And it isn't even made of gold. And I know you can do just as well with your $10 cornflakes watch. Sigh.

[Launch Mini]

Actually, the watch I got in my cornflakes lasted about 72 hours before it completely stopped working.

[C.J.]

Originally Posted by Launch Mini

Actually, the watch I got in my cornflakes lasted about 72 hours before it completely stopped working.

That's because you weren't supposed to put milk on the watch, just the cereal

[Launch Mini]

I read the instruction, It didn't say I couldn't

[maverick]

As far as books, I would recommend, 'The best of Time an Unauthorized History of Rolex' by Mssrs, Hess and Dowling, third edition, just released and the Vintage Rolex Watch book by Skeet and Ural.
If you want accuracy a cheap Casio will do. A Rolex movement can be regulated to almost perfect time. Any mechanical movement is subject to temperature and position changes plus your watch wearing habits.
But no need to worry about changing batteries. ;-)
Almost all quartz movements have a module rather than a movement.
If you get into horology you will become more interested in movements. Congratulations on you new watch, enjoy. =) maverick

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by C.J.

That's because you weren't supposed to put milk on the watch, just the cereal