Chrono24 Buyer has rerouted delivery address without notifying me! Not answering txt

[VacherObsessive]

Hi Guys

I sold a Rolex on Chrono24 as a private seller this week, in the UK, for circa £5k. This is my second watch sale, first one went smoothly no issues

Purchase was made last Saturday, the money landed in the escrow account on Monday morning whereby Chrono24 issued the automatic message to post the watch

I was travelling early this week but packed and arranged the collection Wednesday night, and DHL collected Thursday (Yesterday) morning.

Up until this point the buyer has been very regular with comms, usually replying within a few hours.

Yesterday shortly after the package was received by DHL and I sent him a note and a snap of the collection confirmation, he noted that unfortunately no one would be home to receive the watch (Friday - Today) so he has informed DPD to change the delivery day to after the weekend. First item of concern, he referenced DPD (when I had referred to DHL several times in messages, and linked the DHL website for him to track the watch). This was his last message to me (36hrs ago)

No issue from my side, I told him good idea as you'll want someone in and not to leave with a neighbour !

Today I checked the tracking info and it says the package had been routed to a new address several 100 miles away north of the country

I informed him that I'd seen the delivery location had been changed to a new address, but didn't get a response

I called DHL and they said the request to change the delivery address had been made yesterday. and today a further request to receive the watch on Monday rather than today was made

The watch is now in the depot in the north of the country.

I snapped the latest tracking update and send it again to the buyer, asking him to confirm to me if he rerouted the watch to a new address up north, to make sure. hopefully with an explanation why

when I spoke to DHL on the phone informed me that I could re-route the package to the original address if I wanted to, and the buyer could not override this. I have until Monday first thing AM to do this. I'm not sure of the implications so would rather do it this weekend if it was something I am going to do (depending on if he continues to not respond, and or you guys give me particular advice !)

after my conversation with DHL I called Chrono24 support to see what their thoughts are. the lady on the phone had to speak to a colleague and put me on hold, as she said it was unusual

After discussing with her colleague, she said that it shouldn't be an issue if the buyer has changed the delivery address, as once it is received, the buyer presses receive and then the money is released. I asked what about if there is any funny business and the buyer claims the package was never received, even if the package is signed for, and he claims its a scam for example, and never clicks 'received'. they said that would be very unusual, and the conversation we have had will be on record and they will mediate the matter

the lady from Chrono24 customer services said I should not re-route the package and let it go to wherever the buyer has stated.

I didn't think to ask about the buyers previous purchase history, if any, as he informed me in the message that it was his first Rolex purchase. but for now, I've taken her comments on board, but I am still worried, so I am posting here to hear your thoughts.

as this is only my second watch sale (hopefully my last for a very long time if ever!) it makes me worried that:-

1. he may have been hacked somehow and someone had rerouted his delivery and blocked his communications to me by hacking his account?

2. he is a scammer planning on receiving the package at a new address, claim that he never received it as it has not gone to his address, and never press the 'received' button, and make a claim to have his money released from Chrono24 from the escrow account?


What do you guys think? have you heard of any scams like this, or am I being paranoid? I really cannot afford to have any issues with this watch !!!

Chrono24 says do nothing
DHL says the buyer has rerouted it so all responsibility for receipt the package remains with him. but I do have the ability to override the delivery destination

the package is fully insured for the value of the watch. somehow that doesn't ease my panic.

I have googled various phrases to see if this is a common scam but nothing comes up so I am relying on you guys to give me some hints!

worst case I can either reroute to his original address listed on chrono24 and see what happens, or I can reroute the address back to my house and not take the risk! and take the £65 on postage. such a shame as I've been waiting 3 months to sell this at a fair price. its been slow in the market and riddled with ridiculous and tiresome offers.

any help / words of wisdom would be much appreciated !

[Notsoprobro]

I would 110% reroute it back to yourself. This whole thing smells fishy and its not worth the risk of losing thousands of dollars over trying to appease someone who is dodging communications.

[alex.cicollo]

Originally Posted by Notsoprobro

I would 110% reroute it back to yourself. This whole thing smells fishy and its not worth the risk of losing thousands of dollars over trying to appease someone who is dodging communications.

No experience selling with Chrono24, but I would 100% have it routed back to me, and tell the buyer what you’re doing, so it’s all above board.


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[freefly]

Originally Posted by VacherObsessive

Today I checked the tracking info and it says the package had been routed to a new address several 100 miles away north of the country

I informed him that I'd seen the delivery location had been changed to a new address, but didn't get a response

I called DHL and they said the request to change the delivery address had been made yesterday. and today a further request to receive the watch on Monday rather than today was made

The watch is now in the depot in the north of the country.

AFAIK, the only change of address the recipient can make is to a DHL hub/center, and NOT some random/other address. Only the sender (you) can change the delivery address to a non-DHL center (including re-routing it back to yourself).
So, I'd confirm the above with DHL and make sure that the new delivery address is in fact one of their hubs. If not, I'd re-route it back to yourself ASAP.

[jrs146]

First mistake was selling on chrono24. I would have the package sent back to me. Not worth the risk.

[rolehex]

Reroute the package back to you. Something is not right. In my past experience, 99% of the time, no communication = scam.

And once he receives the watch he has 7 days to examine the watch before telling C24 to release funds.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by Notsoprobro

I would 110% reroute it back to yourself. This whole thing smells fishy and its not worth the risk of losing thousands of dollars over trying to appease someone who is dodging communications.

This


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[Max7857]

I understand your being nervous but I think you run the risk of losing the sale altogether if you have it returned to you. You made Chrono24 aware and they said they would mediate on your behalf if an issue arises.

If you have the guys phone number I would try calling and not just emailing. People have busy and complicated lives and often there is a simple explanation. I know I have homes in Florida and Illinois and elderly parents that often unexpectedly need my help when I am out of town. In those situations I am often out of pocket because I am on an airplane etc or just stressed and don’t feel like checking emails or texts. Just a different perspective. Hope it all works out for you.

[VacherObsessive]

Thanks guys for your responses

And also thanks Max for your perspective

The buyer has since responded and apologised for the delayed response. He said he has rerouted the package to his office as he is struggling to be available at home Monday to receive it. He said he will be in touch upon receipt

I made a bit of a mistake in regards to distance. The new rerouted delivery address is actually 30 miles away from the original home address. My Uk geography is shameful as I thought the home address was on the south coast but it’s actually up north.

The response appears to be concise. I confirm chrono24 said do not reroute as it’s the buyers prerogative to have it delivered wherever they want and if they have confirmed it in writing then it’s set.

I will keep the thread updated with any further news. For now I’m going to let it remain on course as the comms are back

[77T]

That sounds better - but 100% of scams start with anomalies like the ones you mentioned in Post #1.

On the flip side, anomalies only result in scams 1-2% of the time.

If you’re going to be doing watch sales in any volume in the future, you want to get better control over logistical issues. Or calculate theft by deception costs into your pricing model.

In the future, I’d use FedEx First Overnight domestically, or FedEx International First plus Direct Signature and restricted delivery changes.

Hope to see a positive outcome for you.


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[alex.cicollo]

Rooting for you.


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[VacherObsessive]

Originally Posted by 77T

That sounds better - but 100% of scams start with anomalies like the ones you mentioned in Post #1.

On the flip side, anomalies only result in scams 1-2% of the time.

If you’re going to be doing watch sales in any volume in the future, you want to get better control over logistical issues. Or calculate theft by deception costs into your pricing model.

In the future, I’d use FedEx First Overnight domestically, or FedEx International First plus Direct Signature and restricted delivery changes.

Hope to see a positive outcome

Thank you sir

And thanks for the odds ! And great tips re delivery

Fortunately this is my last watch sale (2nd Rolex out of 2 for sale), to raise capitol for some home redecoration (baby on the way in 4 months). No plans to sell my other 2 which are my main wearers.

Fingers crossed and thanks again

[Randomgary]

I've no experience of these selling methods but I would happily re route it back to you, justification being the lack of comms, clarity and the significant change of address delivery.

I would be happy to give them a few quid for their trouble if it feels like they could have been genuine

[TempoKing]

The way I see the whole thing unfolding ...is ..at the end you lose.
If he says ...never received the package ...no matter how much C24 mediates
At the end of the discussion they got to send his money back.

[Knappo 1307]

You are going to be fine. The guy was probably traveling or just busy. He will get it at his office and everything will work out.

[CarrJ]

Originally Posted by Notsoprobro

I would 110% reroute it back to yourself. This whole thing smells fishy and its not worth the risk of losing thousands of dollars over trying to appease someone who is dodging communications.

Please have your watch come back. Too many red flags.


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[bondtoys]

I am selling and buying on Chrono24.

The rules are, that you as a seller have to ship exactly to the address, which Chrono24 gives you after they have received the funds from the buyer.

If you have done this, you should be safe as the money is with Chrono24 now and they will pay you when you have evidently sent the watch to the correct address.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

I am selling and buying on Chrono24.

The rules are, that you as a seller have to ship exactly to the address, which Chrono24 gives you after they have received the funds from the buyer.

If you have done this, you should be safe as the money is with Chrono24 now and they will pay you when you have evidently sent the watch to the correct address.

Right.

However, as I mentioned above (unless I am missing something), a recipient/buyer should not be able to "re-route" the package to their office, which is what happened here. They can only re-route to an official DHL hub for pick-up.
Only the shipper/seller can change the delivery address to a non-DHL location. So my concern would be whether or not the buyer called DHL impersonating the seller to get the address changed.

The potential risk there is that the buyer can then say he never received the package, and there would be a record of the "sender" changing the address. In which case, C24 would happily side with the buyer, and the seller would be screwed.

It's probably fine, but I'd just do a bit of due-dillegence to make sure everything is above board (and documented).

[usling15]

Reroute back home. Losing a sale is better than losing the watch. #1 excuse scammers use to stall is “ they’re traveling”..
Worst case, get it back & sell it for a little less to ensure a sale.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by usling15

Reroute back home. Losing a sale is better than losing the watch. #1 excuse scammers use to stall is “ they’re traveling”..
Worst case, get it back & sell it for a little less to ensure a sale.

Good job. Glad you couldn't be pressurized into being cool and taking the risk for this guy's convenience.

[VacherObsessive]

Originally Posted by freefly

Right.

However, as I mentioned above (unless I am missing something), a recipient/buyer should not be able to "re-route" the package to their office, which is what happened here. They can only re-route to an official DHL hub for pick-up.
Only the shipper/seller can change the delivery address to a non-DHL location. So my concern would be whether or not the buyer called DHL impersonating the seller to get the address changed.

The potential risk there is that the buyer can then say he never received the package, and there would be a record of the "sender" changing the address. In which case, C24 would happily side with the buyer, and the seller would be screwed.

It's probably fine, but I'd just do a bit of due-dillegence to make sure everything is above board (and documented).

DHL told me over the phone that it was the recipient who changed the new delivery address, very explicit about that, and he did it online.

Also, I have written evidence on chrono24 as in a message from him that he has changed it. Quite explicit as well

I don’t think you are correct that with DHL that you cannot as the recipient change the recipient address. Or DHL wouldn’t have informed me. They said either party can change it, but, the sender (and the one who has paid for the service) has final call, ie if I want to change the address / reroute / unroute etc, I can do so and override any request from the recipient. So I can route to his original home address if I want technically. Got until Monday morning but based on the comms I’ve received and the info I’ve received from chrono24, I’ll let it ride out

[freefly]

Originally Posted by VacherObsessive

I don’t think you are correct that with DHL that you cannot as the recipient change the recipient address. Or DHL wouldn’t have informed me. They said either party can change it, but, the sender (and the one who has paid for the service) has final call, ie if I want to change the address / reroute / unroute etc, I can do so and override any request from the recipient.

Totally possible (just going off of memory). Although if that really is their current policy, it's a bit scary (enough for me to never consider using them as a seller).
I was under the impression that a recipient could only change the delivery address to a DHL hub/location, and not some other/random address (only the sender could do that).
Now, if the recipient requested a delivery address change, and you approved, that's different. Is that what happened?

Originally Posted by VacherObsessive

Got until Monday morning but based on the comms I’ve received and the info I’ve received from chrono24, I’ll let it ride out

Yeah, I'm sure you will be fine...but please keep us posted regardless.

[VacherObsessive]

Originally Posted by freefly

Now, if the recipient requested a delivery address change, and you approved, that's different. Is that what happened?

I didn’t approve. The recipient just changed it, and dhl confirmed it. And chrono24 said it is of no consequence

Yeah, I'm sure you will be fine...but please keep us posted regardless.

Thanks mate. I still haven’t decided 100% what I am going to do. But so far based on the reignited comms things seem ok

I will snap and paste the entire correspondence tomorrow blocking names and reference numbers and see what people think

[VacherObsessive]

Originally Posted by freefly

Totally possible (just going off of memory). Although if that really is their current policy, it's a bit scary (enough for me to never consider using them as a seller).
I was under the impression that a recipient could only change the delivery address to a DHL hub/location, and not some other/random address (only the sender could do that).

For your info. Did a quick search

https://www.dhlparcel.pl/en/private-.../redirect.html

Do you know you will not be able to receive a parcel from DHL Parcel? Redirect it!
DHL Parcel offers the recipients the possibility of changing delivery date or address free of charge.
This service is useful and convenient - it does not require any contact with the sender or the courier.



See how the parcel redirection service works at DHL Parcel


Redirect your parcel at DHL Parcel step by step:
Internet shopping
When you finalise your online shopping, enter your mobile phone number or e-mail address, whereby we can send you notifications about the planned delivery day and address.
Preparation for shipment
When preparing for shipping, the online shop transfers the contact details of the buyer/parcel recipient to us: his/her e-mail address or mobile phone number.
Notifications about a parcel
When our courier picks up the shipment from a shop, we send you a notification message with the information on the anticipated delivery day and place, and the link and data (parcel number and the PIN code) enabling you to use the "Redirect a Parcel" service.
Redirecting a parcel
Once logged on to the przekieruj.dhlparcel.pl/en website, the recipient can change the delivery address and date, enter an alternative delivery address or cancel receipt of the shipment. Such changes can be made numerous times until 23:59 on the day before the delivery day.
Parcel delivery
The shipment is delivered according to the data given as part of the "Redirect a Parcel" service. If no change has been made, the shipment will normally be delivered to the address given by the sender.

[afnios1]

Originally Posted by notsoprobro

i would 110% reroute it back to yourself. This whole thing smells fishy and its not worth the risk of losing thousands of dollars over trying to appease someone who is dodging communications.

+1000

[bayareabuggs]

Originally Posted by afnios1

+1000

+10000!

I am not sure why you are taking a chance here that Chrono24 and the customer will come to the party. This is your property, get it back and if they get annoyed with you thats their problem. At least in this scenario you still have your watch.

[Knappo 1307]

What happened with this?

[VacherObsessive]

Morning friends.
the buyer successfully received the watch in his office Monday morning and sent me a message of thanks, chrono24 released the money yesterday and it’s my account. So far so good!

[rolehex]

Originally Posted by VacherObsessive

Morning friends.
the buyer successfully received the watch in his office Monday morning and sent me a message of thanks, chrono24 released the money yesterday and it’s my account. So far so good!

Well that's good news. Looks like it is a successful sale. Congrats!

[EEpro]

Phew! Reminded me of an eBay watch sale I had. Thankfully that was just an omega. Glad it worked out!