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31 December 2021, 10:50 PM | #1 |
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YOU Decide: The NEW Modern Holy Trinity
With 2022 upon us, it is also time we within horology decide a new Holy Trinity.
With a nod to many decades ago, let us remember the Old-School Holy Trinity for its relevance when it was first decided upon by ???? many decades ago. Today, two of the old-school trinity are now part of very large corporate entities. The other one has changed quite a bit, with questions about various mass production quality levels instead of always doing the very best possible at ALL times. With the Old School Holy Trinity now outdated, without a doubt it is time to choose the Modern Holy Trinity of horology. This is 2022 my friends. Virtually everyone i chat with seems to agree MB&F should be part of the Modern Holy Trinity. Please post below who you feel are the true independent brands that make up the other two Modern Holy Trinity of today's timepiece invention/creation. Note: This is Round One as we hone in on which three brands are part of the new Modern Holy Trinity.
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31 December 2021, 11:01 PM | #2 |
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fp journe
czapek h moser |
31 December 2021, 11:10 PM | #3 |
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VC, Lange, Chopard
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31 December 2021, 11:12 PM | #4 |
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Richard Mille Greubel Forsey Mb&f Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
1 January 2022, 12:06 AM | #5 |
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Great thread!
I suggest adding a poll, choosing three brands To me (I’m no particular order) it’s: FP Journe H. Moser & Cei AP (IMHO) it’s still in the holly trinity ) A runner up is Grand Seiko (yes I know! But their dials, cases and details are crazy!!) Your question is about INDEPENDENT brands so can’t pick ALS!!
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1 January 2022, 12:12 AM | #6 |
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Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet and Vacheron Constantin are still The Trinity in 2022. No change to world order...
Lange is somewhat close but their sports line is in infancy. |
1 January 2022, 12:29 AM | #7 |
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I'm putting a lot of weight to brands that moved along horology through technical innovation. I left out FPJ and DeBethune as they are currently not true independents.
MB&F Urwerk Greubel Forsey
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1 January 2022, 12:33 AM | #8 | |
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Quote:
Times they have indeed changed. Progress marches on and all that. Plus i feel it is time WE ENTHUSIASTS decide who has earned being part of the Modern Holy Trinity. Once again thanks for chiming in, and thanks for supporting the 'old guard' of horology.
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1 January 2022, 12:39 AM | #9 |
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Great thread!
My pick: Richard Mille Greubel Forsey Audemars Piguet My spouse’s pick: Greubel Forsey FP Journe A. Lange & Sohne Despite being on my list, I do not own and do not anticipate ever owning a Richard Mille or Greubel Forsey. Surely would be nice, though! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
1 January 2022, 12:40 AM | #10 |
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Modern or old I don't think you can have this discussion without Patek, innovative, broad market reach (in terms of offerings) and highly (probably the most) relevant. Still the king and leader.
Mine would be FPJ, Greubel Forsey, and Patek. |
1 January 2022, 12:43 AM | #11 |
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Can we do a holy Trinity of watches that we can actually get at retail
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1 January 2022, 12:46 AM | #12 |
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Moderate to high level production for "classic" design trinity:
1) Patek 2) AP 3) Journe 4) Lange (Honorable mention) 5) VC (Honorable mention) Top tier classical design trinity (if money is no object and finishing is king): 1) Dufour 2) Gruebel 3) Variety of independents (Roger Smith, Kari, Gronefeld etc.) Top trinity of "special" material, "special design" 1) MB&F 2) Debethune 3) Urwerk Debatable hype: 1) Richard Mille 2) Hublot 3) Ming |
1 January 2022, 12:48 AM | #13 |
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Ugh, I failed to pay sufficient attention to the independent aspect of the question. I’m still Greubel Forsey, Richard Mille, and AP. Spouse is Greubel Forsey, FP Journe and H. Moser and Cie (instead of Lange, which is not an indépendant).
Note: I’m keeping AP in the trinity because they still hit the mark (for me) on global reach, independence, innovation (love the Code, btw), and playfulness. I’m huge fan of AP. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
1 January 2022, 01:26 AM | #14 | |
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I agree with you times have changed though, but they are still Kings today with evolution and tweaks throughout their history. That's why imo they are still at the perch in 2022. |
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1 January 2022, 01:43 AM | #15 | |
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I look forward to the Modern Holy Trinity of horology. BTW, if this was cars there was probably a Holy Trinity in the 1960s, yet exotic car production and performance manufacturing has changed since then. New companies not in business way back when are now taking the forefront. Ferrari is great, still innovating, yet.... Hope this better clarifies things. So again, yes let's celebrate the old guard, yet also give recognition to those taking horology into Modern times.
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1 January 2022, 02:10 AM | #16 |
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Modern Trinity: Richard Mille, Greubel Forsey, FP Journe
Classic Trinity: PP, AP, VC
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1 January 2022, 02:32 AM | #17 | |
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Quote:
I also think AP hasn't done enough over the past 20 years to keep it seated in a Trinity. From technical achievements, they have been outclassed by Lange. They are also much too reliant on the RO line.
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1 January 2022, 05:35 AM | #18 |
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FPJ
FPJ FPJ
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1 January 2022, 05:47 AM | #19 |
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Someone remind me again why AP with only 1 watch model really after decades belongs in the holy trinity?
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1 January 2022, 06:06 AM | #20 | |
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Quote:
In for the responses to this question
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1 January 2022, 06:42 AM | #21 |
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Doesn't Debetune make all their movements, dials, straps etc? They have many patents as well
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1 January 2022, 07:02 AM | #22 |
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A Lange
FP Journe are my candidates to round out the trinity. They are innovative and make superb quality watches without being anchored to one particular reference or model for their product line. |
1 January 2022, 07:08 AM | #23 |
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FPJ, Mille and Patek and their finishing is really top notch IMO.
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1 January 2022, 07:45 AM | #24 |
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I think the concept of a trinity (or any other numbered list for that matter) is simply outdated and, at best, only loosely applicable to subjective arenas.
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1 January 2022, 07:48 AM | #25 |
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Yes they do. They would have been first on my list. However, OP stated true independents. DeBethune is owned by Watchbox. This is also why I didn't include FPJ.
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1 January 2022, 07:49 AM | #26 |
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1 January 2022, 07:57 AM | #27 |
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1. Lange
2. Credor 3. Patek
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1 January 2022, 08:28 AM | #28 |
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Tbh,
One brand is not yet mentioned and it’s probably the only one that really deserves it. Parmigiani!! Please do look at them and read their history. Look at the manufactures that belong under the parmigiani/Sandoz foundation umbrella and you will understand they are a top tier players They make cases , movements, dials…. For the entire industry. And I mean THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY Do some research Most of the others mentioned I simply can’t agree and I’ll try to explain why. Dufour and smith … top notch but with a production of less then 10-15 per year they are just not acceptable to be put in a holy trinity group. They should at least be available to thousands of collectors just like the PP/VC/AP brands do So for the same reason I exclude MB&F, Urwerk and archer similar top brands. 150 or so per year is imo still unacceptable Again, nothing wrong with these brands, I even wish I had one or more but they are just to tiny Greubel… also a no go for that reason and on top of it… their price. Sorry bit if you can’t offer a great watch between 20 and 50 k you’re imo not worthy Richard mille…. Unbelievable people still buy that joke. The are not a watch brand but a marketing brand. They pretend to be the best and most exclusive. But for some models the use Vaucher movements ( and BTW Vaucher is aboard of parmigiani) At 1/5 th of their listprice it would be acceptable. Again, great marketing but that’s about it. Czapek and Moser? Great and will buy them but definitely not enough high end. Good finishing but on par with for example JLC. So imo not good enough to be called “superior “ And therefore not good enough to replace patek , Vacheron or Audemars Besides they also use movements from Vaucher and Aghenor. Really, put some time in reading about parmigiani , it’s not the most recognised brand today but if you would know who they work for and what level of finishing they can deliver…. I bet you’ll agree Or please start with this Buy this book and read it, you’ll learn about hand finishing and real haute horlogerie. It’s a must have book https://watchprint.com/fr/techniques...-de-gamme.html There is a reason why I made a post a week ago about the parmigiani ionica and there is a reason why I said it blows away Patek, Vacheron and Audemars
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1 January 2022, 08:33 AM | #29 |
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Rolex
AP PP
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1 January 2022, 08:35 AM | #30 | ||
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Quote:
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I love ya!!! I don't care what others say about you behind your back, but man I sooo love ya
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