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21 April 2009, 07:45 PM
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#1 |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Orchi believes there're only 2 WG Gloss Dial variants Ref 16760 GMT II aka "Fat Lady"
Err...to all TRF GMT Buddies...please spare Orchi
a favour to post in here also...your collection of the super sexy... Ref 16760 GMT Master II...a.k.a. the "Fat Lady"... originally coined by a Germany collector n fellow VRF member... Buddy GeorgB... http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...ge/1223309257/ It is the most practical GMT Master watches ever made by Rolex... in a relatively short period of time between 1983 until 1988. in Orchi's own novice opinion... The 1st Generation GMT Master II - Ref 16760 GMT II... has a NO "DATE" plot after "OYSTER PERPETUAL"... on its WG Glossy Dial variant... with Case series of about 8.3 to 8.4 million Case Series... which is believed to have been produced very briefly in 1983/84 or so only... The latter variant of Ref 16760 GMT Master II WG Gloss Dial... featured a "DATE" plot behind "OYSTER PERPETUAL" ie "OYSTER PERPETUAL DATE"... on a separate Glossy Dial variant... which is more commonly found from 1984 or 1985... until 1988 "R" Series cases or so... Best regards Orchi. Here are pictures of Orchi's 8,400,xxx series 16760 GMT II "Fat Lady"... Tall Coronet with longer crown arches...n prominent round "o" crown base... Having NO "DATE" plot on the 1st Generation Dial variant... NOTE: "SCOC" has Serif fonts...(lets call this MK.1)        Here are pictures of Orchi's 9,466,xxx series 16760 GMT II "Fat Lady"... Short n broader Coronet with shorter crown arches... n narrower round "o" crown base... Having "DATE" plot on the latter Dial variant... NOTE: "SCOC" has No Serif fonts...(lets call this MK.2)           Err buddies...however... there is the critical issues clouding this is MK.2 WG Gloss Dial for 16760...with Orchi's 9,466,xxx series case... Here's one from the VRF Dial Archive(1st Archive entry)... with perhaps a late 8 million series case... which looks to be exactly the same to the one posted by Orchi earlier... on(9.466 case) MK.2 Dial...  This other example highlighted in here...could be MK. 3?(Pic courtesy of VRF Dial Archive)... from later 9.6 million series case...but NOT quite the same with the earlier MK.2 Dial... due to the "SCOC" fonts having seen to have tidy Serif fonts... i.e. the little strokes of pen at the end of each font writing... which probably extend to the end of Ref 16760 GMT Master II production... of "R" series 19760 GMT II...?  Same Coronet style...but with tidy Serif "SCOC" fonts... n same same looks with this one from the VRF Dial Archive also... posted by Buddy U5512...  So perhaps...there could be 3 WG Gloss Dials... for 16760 GMT Master II...? Nonetheless...it MAY BE possible that the "MK.3?" Dial on later Case Series of Ref 16760...could be the SAME as the ones found on EARLY WG Gloss Dial of its later successor...the Ref 16710 GMT Master II... with Tritium markers "SWISS-T<25" at 6 o'clock...too. Hence it may NOT be as simple...but it could be more complicated... as the Early Rolex WG Gloss Dials of those era...has strong tendency to crack up or crazed... so MANY Dials on such watches are turned in to RSC for later replacements... in order to fix the problems. In doing so... to those Ref 16760 that are turned into RSC by around 1988 or thereafter... chances are...the Replacement Dials could be similar to the ones which were available n interchangeable with the Ref 16710 Tritium Dials...also. Here are some examples of the Early WG Gloss Dial variant... for the later successor REF 16710 GMT Master II... with Tritium markers..."SWISS-T<25" at 6 o'clock. These Pictures are excerpt from eBay...of Ref 16710 GMT Master II watches... with Tritium Dials...     Is there any similarities to the possible MK.3 Dial of 16760...? Hahahaaa...IF so...there maybe more complication ahead... NOTE: Novice collectors alike...16760/16710 GMT II Gloss Tritium Dials... are Interchangeable... So please be informed... Err...Orchi learns also... 1. The Most sought after Dial of 16760 has NO "DATE" plot..MK.1. 2. Early 8 mil series of 8,3xx,xxx to 8,40x,xxx had NO "DATE" plot... 3. "GMT Master II" Dials of 16760 n 16710 are interchangeable... 4. These Early Gloss WG surround Tritium Dials are prone to crazing n cracking... 5. IF watch has been serviced before by RSC... chances are the crazed Dials would have been replaced...by RSC. 6. It could be possible... that valuable NO "DATE" Dials may have been swapped out by greedy parties... with replacement "DATE" plot Dial...n sold to unsuspecting Novice collectors.. 7. A fine uncertain line separates between genuine 16760 MK.2 Dial... with those Glossy Tritium Dials from Ref 16710 GMT Master II(or MK.3)... & the Service Replacement ones by RSC... which has close similarities with its predecessor MK.2 Dial... Until further evidence points to the contrary of the above can be obtained... at later stage...the above assumption is purely based on Orchi's novice experience. IF any TRF buddies happen to have the Early 16710 GMT Master II watches... with Case Series possibly from the early "R" Series to 1998 "U" Series... having WG Gloss Tritium Dials... please do post the closeup pictures of the 16710 GMT II Tritium Dials with... "SWISS-T<25" at 6 o'clock ...in here for comparison purpose. Thanks for watching... Best regards Orchi. |
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21 April 2009, 10:41 PM
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#2 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,683
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Wonderful research Orchi. The 16760 is such a desirable reference that has untill recently flew under the radar.
Your study is ground breaking and one that's been sorely missed. Good show. 
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22 April 2009, 12:42 AM
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#3 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
n yes...the ONLY ONE GMT buddy out of millions around the World... whom had in fact...inspired Orchi from the very beginning... to aspire for the intriguing history n knowledge of the Vintage Rolex GMT watches... Orchi was astonished by the your exemplary pictures on the range of Vintage Rolex GMT watches... which are being published alongside the inspirational n well written literature of Rolex GMT Master watches... by Buddy Tomvox1...in the World renown Buddy Delgado's www.doubleredseadweller.com ... vintage Rolex watches website... Without you Unselfish GMT Buddies... Orchi would most certainly have been...clueless. 
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2 July 2009, 04:03 AM
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#4 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1
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Hi Orchi,
This is my maiden post. Actually stumbled onto this thread when i was trying to research on my 16710 that i owned since 1998. Was really curious why i had the "swiss t<25" dial instead of the "swiss made" dial. Your research really answered most of my queries. Thanks Here is my contribution (serial U155XXX) 
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2 July 2009, 10:32 AM
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#5 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Chicago
Watch: 16610
Posts: 300
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great thread!!!
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2 July 2009, 10:44 AM
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#6 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Real Name: John
Location: LONG ISLAND, NY
Watch: 2007 DAY DATE 18KT
Posts: 1,378
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I learn something new every day here! Thanks!
__________________
ROLEX DAY DATE 118238 (2007) ROLEX DAY DATE 18238 (1997) ROLEX GMT 16750 PEPSI (1987) ROLEX AIR KING 14000 (1991) ROLEX GMTIIC TT 116713LN (2008) |
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6 July 2009, 01:03 AM
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#7 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Tony
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Watch: 116680 & 116622
Posts: 3,953
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Orchi, your knowledge on all things Rolex astounds me, sir.
  Thanks for sharing.
__________________
"...why oh why, didn't I take the blue pill...?" http://www.helenanddouglas.org.uk/ www.cheetah.org |
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29 July 2009, 08:18 AM
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#8 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Real Name: Svein E. A.
Location: Norway
Watch: GMT II Fat Lady
Posts: 24
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"Fat Lady" used daily
I guess with this great presentation that the value of my "Mark 1 w.o. date" is going up! Should I keep her in the safe rather than the daily use over the last nearly 25 years?
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30 July 2009, 01:02 AM
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#9 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Annapolis, MD
Watch: Sea-Dweller 16600
Posts: 5,081
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Orchi-
Very good research. Why do you consider the 16760 one of the most practical GMT-Masters? I have had 2 chances to purchase fat-ladies in the past year, and simply passed them by. Now I regret that. |
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30 July 2009, 06:55 PM
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#10 |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Real Name: steven
Location: tampa bay
Watch: 1680 18k sub
Posts: 6,672
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I have heard from several watchmakers that the caliber used in the Fatlady is actually quite fickle and one of the hardest to work on..
dont know if its true but thought I would throw in my 2 cents!! |
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31 July 2009, 07:21 AM
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#11 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New York
Watch: GTM II 16760
Posts: 40
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Hello Orchi,
I noticed a Pepsi GMT above, is it correct the 16760 was only sold in the coke configuration? Cheers, NB |
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9 August 2009, 11:57 AM
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#12 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Real Name: Gary
Location: GMT-6
Watch: GMT
Posts: 3,350
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Outstanding and very interesting!
__________________
Omega Seamaster 300M GMT Noire Omega Seamaster Aqua Terra 8500 Benson 1937 Sterling Silver Hunter |
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10 August 2009, 12:04 AM
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#13 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
16760 GMT II "Fat Lady" or "Sophia Loren" only comes with "COKE Red/Black" bezel...originally. Also only in SS...no Gold model. 
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10 August 2009, 12:07 AM
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#14 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
It's most practical GMT Master at the time...due to 3 time zones...rather than 2.
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10 August 2009, 12:41 AM
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#15 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Real Name: Allan
Location: California
Posts: 3,210
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Beautiful pictures and great information! Thanks!!
Allan |
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15 August 2009, 04:15 AM
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#16 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New York
Watch: GTM II 16760
Posts: 40
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Thanks Orchi,
Such a great watch, I wear mine non stop! |
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1 February 2010, 01:57 AM
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#17 |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Err buddies...not sure what is happening with Photobucket...
but lately...Orchi too gets the dreaded message..."Bandwidth Exceeded"... whenever Photobucket pictures are being blocked... n not being uploaded... IF you are using Firefox browser... you could try the following... So here it is... what Orchi has discovered to be the quick FIX to the problem... that Orchi wishes to share with the VRF Buddies here... or at the least with those that are using the Mozilla FIREFOX... At the FireFox browser... TYPE...........................: About:config PRESS Enter. When prompted, CLICK............: I would be careful, I promise Next Window would appear. In Field "Filter", TYPE........: network.http.sendRefererHeader FIND that Field at the bottom listing. RIGHT Click the Field, CLICK...: Modify On Next POP-UP, TYPE...........: 0 (instead of "2" as shown) CLICK..........................: OK CLOSE(X) the Window. NOTE: For those that has plenty of pics being hosted in PhotoBucket for FREE... or whenever your FIREFOX Browser fails to upload any pictures... IF you wish to...you could undertake the above measure... so as to prevent the same problem that Orchi had recently... even though...you may have not experienced it...just yet. IMPORTANT: TRY NOT TO BE TOO CURIOUS TO ATTEMPT MAKING OTHER CHANGES IN THOSE OTHER FIELDS found in the FIREFOX system... VOILA!!! ALL the pictures that were seemed to be "WIPE OUT" from the postings... in the relevant Forum...would be uploaded n "RE-APPEAR" again. NOT sure how that problem came about... but the above quick FIX has worked for Orchi...
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8 July 2012, 07:03 AM
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#18 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Real Name: Walter A.
Location: Sunny California
Watch: 16760
Posts: 2,629
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Just found one, will have it Tuesday, can't wait
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20 July 2012, 04:21 PM
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#19 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 40
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I was reading this interesting old thread. Is it true that this Orchi guy was actually banned? Seems like he's very knowledgable on GMT's.
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21 July 2012, 08:15 AM
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#20 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NJ / PA / FL
Watch: Exp 1 and 2
Posts: 284
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Quote:
IBTL? |
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21 July 2012, 01:46 PM
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#21 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Real Name: Nathan
Location: US, Latin America
Watch: GMT IIc 18K/SS
Posts: 3,349
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Best to simply let it go.......
__________________
(Member NAWCC since 1976)  116713LN GMT-IIc 18k/SS (Z) + 116520 SS Daytona (M) + 16700 GMT Master (A) + 16610LV Submariner (V) + 16600 Sea Dweller (Z) + 116400 Milgauss White Dial (V) + 70330N Tudor Heritage Chronograph Grey w/Black Sub Dials (J) + 5513 Submariner Serif Dial (5.2 Mil)  Who else needs an Intervention?(109 297) (137 237) (73 115) (221) (23) (56) (229) P-Club Member #5  RIP JJ Irani - TRF Legend |
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22 July 2012, 01:59 AM
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#22 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 40
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Quote:
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4 May 2014, 05:04 AM
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#23 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Real Name: SBK
Location: Singapore
Watch: means shou biao
Posts: 289
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Quote:
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7 August 2023, 02:35 AM
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#24 |
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2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
Location: Texas
Watch: GMT-MASTER
Posts: 17,304
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An update to the "no date" dials - the early dials missing the word "date" after Oyster Perpetual.
Below are the two variations of the "no date" 16760 GMT-MASTER II dials. Since these have not but numbered anywhere in the past, I will refer to them in my photos as the Mark 1a and Mark 1b "no date" GMT 16760 early dials. If you look at them closely, there are several variations - the most notable being the style of the dial coronets and the absence of the hyphen between GMT and Master in the 1b dial. These are early 16760 dials, probably found mostly on the early 16760s in the lower serial numbers - up to 8.5 million range of numbers.
__________________
Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics. |
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