Would a Grey Dealer Refund your Money if RSC seized the watch the grey sold u?

[hondacb1002]

Would a grey dealer ever refund your money if you purchased a watch from them got it serviced by RSC and it had been reported stolen and then seized by RSC? I would assume no. I would assume the grey dealer would make u take the legal route in hopes that u will just give up and call it a loss. I'm just wondering if there are actual upstanding grey dealers who would refund in this situation? Not ones who proclaim that they will, but grey dealers who have actually refunded when this scenario occurs? Has this scenario or something like it happened to anyone? What is stopping a grey dealer from reporting a watch as stolen after it is sold so that if it sent into RSC for service it would be seized and sent back to the grey dealer? Once RSC seized a watch how does the person know that it wasn't the grey dealer who reported the watch as stolen?

[HogwldFLTR]

I guess it entirely depends on the grey. Remember the first rule of buying second had watches; buy the seller.

[~JJ]

I remember it was done a couple times over the years, it would take some site searching to find the old posts.

[Mystro]

Depends on the Grey seller. It’s such a unbelievably rare circumstance with our trusted sellers, it’s probably not worth thinking about.

[hondacb1002]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

I guess it entirely depends on the grey. Remember the first rule of buying second had watches; buy the seller.

I agree. Which is why I am wondering if there are examples of any of these grey market dealers who really stand head and shoulders above all others? People spout incessantly here about trusted dealers etc. Well let us see some evidence of how trusted these dealers are? I want to see some stellar examples of these trusted dealers. No one really brings up examples or past history of these trusted dealers to show how trusted they are. It is all just "believe us" they are there so they are trusted type of responses.

Originally Posted by ~JJ

I remember it was done a couple times over the years, it would take some site searching to find the old posts.

You would think if there were outstanding trusted dealers examples like this would be brought to the publics attention when people ask about trusted dealers? But I never hear of stories like this where a trusted dealer etc makes things right when a watch is stolen. You would also think if these grey market dealers were to be trusted there would be a lot more examples of stolen watches being purchased by grey dealers, sold to customers, seized by RSC, and then a grey market dealer making the seller whole for selling them a stolen watch. Especially when you take into account how many watches get stolen world wide. But you don't see the correlation of post concerning grey market trusted dealers making things right with stolen watches sold to clients. That doesn't add up and it is very weird.

Originally Posted by Mystro

Depends on the Grey seller. It’s such a unbelievably rare circumstance with our trusted sellers, it’s probably not worth thinking about.

I will not be taking your advice so that is a "no" from me. What is your reasoning for not thinking about a worst case scenario with a luxury item? Are you better off having thought or not thought about a worse case scenario when it actually happens? I'm really confused by your line of thinking.


I would wager that more times then not when a watch is stolen, sold to a grey dealer, sold to a customer, seized by RSC when serviced that more times then not the grey "trusted" dealer tells the customer to take them to court. The customer probably gives up and just counts it as a loss. I bet this is what happens more times then not with these so called trusted dealers. Or else we would hear more stories about trusted dealers making things right. and we don't really hear that or at least i don't.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

I agree. Which is why I am wondering if there are examples of any of these grey market dealers who really stand head and shoulders above all others? People spout incessantly here about trusted dealers etc. Well let us see some evidence of how trusted these dealers are? I want to see some stellar examples of these trusted dealers. No one really brings up examples or past history of these trusted dealers to show how trusted they are. It is all just "believe us" they are there so they are trusted type of responses.



You would think if there were outstanding trusted dealers examples like this would be brought to the publics attention when people ask about trusted dealers? But I never hear of stories like this where a trusted dealer etc makes things right when a watch is stolen. You would also think if these grey market dealers were to be trusted there would be a lot more examples of stolen watches being purchased by grey dealers, sold to customers, seized by RSC, and then a grey market dealer making the seller whole for selling them a stolen watch. Especially when you take into account how many watches get stolen world wide. But you don't see the correlation of post concerning grey market trusted dealers making things right with stolen watches sold to clients. That doesn't add up and it is very weird.




I will not be taking your advice so that is a "no" from me. What is your reasoning for not thinking about a worst case scenario with a luxury item? Are you better off having thought or not thought about a worse case scenario when it actually happens? I'm really confused by your line of thinking.


I would wager that more times then not when a watch is stolen, sold to a grey dealer, sold to a customer, seized by RSC when serviced that more times then not the grey "trusted" dealer tells the customer to take them to court. The customer probably gives up and just counts it as a loss. I bet this is what happens more times then not with these so called trusted dealers. Or else we would hear more stories about trusted dealers making things right. and we don't really hear that or at least i don't.

again, it really depends on the seller and it's why people say buy the seller. for someone like davidsw, i don't think there has actually ever been a case of him selling a fake or stolen watch (at least nothing on the internet) and that goes to the point of not having to worry about it if you go with someone that trusted. the same goes for the major names here that are always mentioned. you probably won't have an answer to your question because from what i've searched previously, nothing about them selling a fake or stolen watch can be found. the risk really comes when you go to the new greys/flippers that are all over youtube and came into the business in the last 2 years to try to cash in since they just care about flipping every watch they can as fast as they can

all the "stellar evidence" you need is available here in the feedback forum or on other forums, including stories about how these sellers have gone above and beyond in cases where something wasn't as described or had issues with movements. if you still have reservations then buying grey isn't for you

also your wager and assumption makes no sense. how would there not be a single post on the internet about a trusted seller selling a stolen watch. you really think everyone would chalk it off as a loss and walk away, and not one single person would go post about it? cmon lol

[doboy007]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

I will not be taking your advice so that is a "no" from me. What is your reasoning for not thinking about a worst case scenario with a luxury item? Are you better off having thought or not thought about a worse case scenario when it actually happens? I'm really confused by your line of thinking.

I wouldn't either. I don't get where this "trusted" seller worshiping comes from. But it's rampant on this forum.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

I guess it entirely depends on the grey. Remember the first rule of buying second had watches; buy the seller.

Originally Posted by doboy007

I wouldn't either. I don't get where this "trusted" seller worshiping comes from. But it's rampant on this forum.

Because spending $10k and up on a timepiece is a big deal and the trusted sellers on this forum are GTG. I have read a couple of examples of DSW making good on some odd events. I have personally bought from 4 TSers here and never had an issue. The Trusted Seller promotion here is legit and for a reason.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

Would a grey dealer ever refund your money if you purchased a watch from them got it serviced by RSC and it had been reported stolen and then seized by RSC? . . . Once RSC seized a watch how does the person know that it wasn't the grey dealer who reported the watch as stolen?

Gray Dealers are not used watch sellers, so know who you are buying from.

If a watch is indeed stolen, then it is a Black Market watch, and your "Dealer", if he knew it, has committed a crime. Do you think that a criminal is going to give you back your money?

To report a stolen watch you need proof it was stolen, you can't just make a phone call. An official police report is required, and Rolex will attempt to contact that authority.

Again, reporting a stolen watch that was not stolen is a crime - again, Black Market, not Grey Market or Secondary Market.

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

I would wager that more times then not when a watch is stolen, sold to a grey dealer, sold to a customer, seized by RSC when serviced that more times then not the grey "trusted" dealer tells the customer to take them to court. The customer probably gives up and just counts it as a loss. I bet this is what happens more times then not with these so called trusted dealers. Or else we would hear more stories about trusted dealers making things right. and we don't really hear that or at least i don't.

The amount of ridiculous assumptions in your post is quite something

Trusted sellers have been on here for years and years building a track record of reliability and integrity. I trust a handful of these sellers on here more than I trust my own AD

[Gab27]

I just don't think this is all that common of a situation to begin with. If this was, I am pretty sure you would see some extremely negative reviews as this is not something an average consumer would just 'give up and count as a loss'. Many people will post a negative review if they have a bad $10 meal, often across many different sites. I am pretty sure most people would have a lot to say if they have a bad $10,000 watch.

I am also inclined to think that if this extremely unlikely situation did happen that the most reputable secondary sellers would absolutely refund the money, as a failure to properly rectify this sort of a situation could literally ruin a reputation that they spent many years building. Once that level of trust is lost, it is extremely hard to recover, and that can carry substantial economic consequences.

[Mr. K]

I'm sure a reputable seller will make good.

But better to find out sooner rather than later. If you find out years down the road, it puts both sides in an akward position. How does the seller know if the buyer is trying to pull a fast one. I'm thinking more along the lines of franken watch.

[waterking]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

The amount of ridiculous assumptions in your post is quite something
Trusted sellers have been on here for years and years building a track record of reliability and integrity. I trust a handful of these sellers on here more than I trust my own AD

Well said.

OP....your choice is obviously to continue overthinking your luxury purchases and that is certainly your right...strictly because it is your money. From my POV you are going to continue to worry about things that rarely ever happen and if they do, hopefully, there will be solutions available.

[hondacb1002]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

The amount of ridiculous assumptions in your post is quite something

Trusted sellers have been on here for years and years building a track record of reliability and integrity. I trust a handful of these sellers on here more than I trust my own AD

perhaps you are right. but how many examples are there of these "trusted" sellers making things right for the customer in a situation where a stolen watch is seized by RSC because the watch was reported as theft? As it stands the primary reason why they are trusted sellers is because people say they are trusted sellers. No doubt lots of deals are done but by those who have been proclaimed to be trusted sellers and those not proclaimed as so. Just not many examples of what I am specifically asking for, which I find strange for as you call them "trusted" sellers. For me reading again and again about the "trusted" sellers when I know full well it is based on reputation and not any kind of official organization makes it seem not so trustworthy just because they stress the "trusted" so much.

How about instead of harping on and on about "trusted" sellers these trusted sellers every time they list a watch also in the listing say they if it is stolen the buyer will be made whole and get a full refund. Why isn't that an industry standard for trusted sellers. Makes one wonder a lot.

[hondacb1002]

Originally Posted by waterking

Well said.

OP....your choice is obviously to continue overthinking your luxury purchases and that is certainly your right...strictly because it is your money. From my POV you are going to continue to worry about things that rarely ever happen and if they do, hopefully, there will be solutions available.

ok if they never really happen. and if these watch dealers are trusted. why aren't they stating outright that if they sell you a watch that ends up being reported as stolen that you as the customer will be made whole. seems like something that would be an industry standard for "trusted" sellers.

But lets be honest this isn't the case for a reason. They wanna call themselves trusted sellers but they don't wanna put their money where their mouth is so to speak. why defend this odd practice of so called "trusted" sellers who don't stand behind their product. So weird if you ask me.

[ArtNouveau]

I sincerely doubt any of the well known resellers here would ever end up with a stolen watch. I sold a watch to Takuya here a few years ago. I presented the watch in person to his watchmaker agent who asked to see the warranty card and sales receipt. They did not keep my receipt but that established a legit trail of possession. I would think anyone of them would expect a provable chain of ownership before buying anything.

[hondacb1002]

Originally Posted by Gab27

I just don't think this is all that common of a situation to begin with. If this was, I am pretty sure you would see some extremely negative reviews as this is not something an average consumer would just 'give up and count as a loss'. Many people will post a negative review if they have a bad $10 meal, often across many different sites. I am pretty sure most people would have a lot to say if they have a bad $10,000 watch.

I am also inclined to think that if this extremely unlikely situation did happen that the most reputable secondary sellers would absolutely refund the money, as a failure to properly rectify this sort of a situation could literally ruin a reputation that they spent many years building. Once that level of trust is lost, it is extremely hard to recover, and that can carry substantial economic consequences.

Are you living in fantasy land? It is extremely easy to silence an upset customer and let's be honest upset customers run outta steam at some point and just chalk it up as a loss. Any platform that takes ad revenue is always subject to censorship if it effects the bottom line etc. Makes me wonder when I see all the banner ads here ppl pushing "trusted" this "trusted" that. well how about ya'll set an industry standard that if a watch is sold to a customer and its stolen the customer is made hole by the "trusted" person.

so weird that isn't an industry standard by all these trusted ppl proclaimed to be trusted.

[hondacb1002]

Originally Posted by ArtNouveau

I sincerely doubt any of the well known resellers here would ever end up with a stolen watch. I sold a watch to Takuya here a few years ago. I presented the watch in person to his watchmaker agent who asked to see the warranty card and sales receipt. They did not keep my receipt but that established a legit trail of possession. I would think anyone of them would expect a provable chain of ownership before buying anything.

I can't doubt that. But heck why not offer as a trusted seller the guarantee that if the watch is reported stolen and seize the customer is made whole and fully refunded. I mean they are trusted right, or not trusted that much? or kinda trusted, but not totally trusted?

[fwhawk]

As far as I can tell the trusted sellers here do stand behind their products. If you're considering a purchase from one If them, I guess you should ask your question before completing the deal.

[ArtNouveau]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

I can't doubt that. But heck why not offer as a trusted seller the guarantee that if the watch is reported stolen and seize the customer is made whole and fully refunded. I mean they are trusted right, or not trusted that much? or kinda trusted, but not totally trusted?

Your whole concern is very bizarre. I give up wondering why you think this extremely specific disclaimer for something that almost never happens needs to be on anyone’s website or ad.
And the Trusted Sellers here don’t call themselves that. The multitudes of satisfied customers here that have used them call them that.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

Would a grey dealer ever refund your money if you purchased a watch from them got it serviced by RSC and it had been reported stolen and then seized by RSC? I would assume no. I would assume the grey dealer would make u take the legal route in hopes that u will just give up and call it a loss. I'm just wondering if there are actual upstanding grey dealers who would refund in this situation? Not ones who proclaim that they will, but grey dealers who have actually refunded when this scenario occurs? Has this scenario or something like it happened to anyone? What is stopping a grey dealer from reporting a watch as stolen after it is sold so that if it sent into RSC for service it would be seized and sent back to the grey dealer? Once RSC seized a watch how does the person know that it wasn't the grey dealer who reported the watch as stolen?

If you bought your watch through the AD network the issue doesn’t arise.

[johnwigan]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

Would a grey dealer ever refund your money if you purchased a watch from them got it serviced by RSC and it had been reported stolen and then seized by RSC? I would assume no. I would assume the grey dealer would make u take the legal route in hopes that u will just give up and call it a loss. I'm just wondering if there are actual upstanding grey dealers who would refund in this situation? Not ones who proclaim that they will, but grey dealers who have actually refunded when this scenario occurs? Has this scenario or something like it happened to anyone? What is stopping a grey dealer from reporting a watch as stolen after it is sold so that if it sent into RSC for service it would be seized and sent back to the grey dealer? Once RSC seized a watch how does the person know that it wasn't the grey dealer who reported the watch as stolen?

No, a grey dealer probably will not even be around in 5 or 10 years time. A watch can be.reported stolen at any time now or in the future. Add in it could be reported stolen anywhere in the world. Trying to deal with police in foreign countries is a nightmare. And Rolex in other country. And Local police. You may be under suspicion yourself. Just hope your watch isn't reported stolen if you do buy grey. Or buy from an AD.

[dannyboy123]

I think for you the AD model is the way to go for you. It's how we got our 5, RRP is my limit. If I had the $$$ I'd go grey though.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

ok if they never really happen. and if these watch dealers are trusted. why aren't they stating outright that if they sell you a watch that ends up being reported as stolen that you as the customer will be made whole. seems like something that would be an industry standard for "trusted" sellers.

But lets be honest this isn't the case for a reason. They wanna call themselves trusted sellers but they don't wanna put their money where their mouth is so to speak. why defend this odd practice of so called "trusted" sellers who don't stand behind their product. So weird if you ask me.

Wanna, wanna wanna.

[zengineer]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

I agree. Which is why I am wondering if there are examples of any of these grey market dealers who really stand head and shoulders above all others? People spout incessantly here about trusted dealers etc. Well let us see some evidence of how trusted these dealers are? I want to see some stellar examples of these trusted dealers. No one really brings up examples or past history of these trusted dealers to show how trusted they are. It is all just "believe us" they are there so they are trusted type of responses.







You would think if there were outstanding trusted dealers examples like this would be brought to the publics attention when people ask about trusted dealers? But I never hear of stories like this where a trusted dealer etc makes things right when a watch is stolen. You would also think if these grey market dealers were to be trusted there would be a lot more examples of stolen watches being purchased by grey dealers, sold to customers, seized by RSC, and then a grey market dealer making the seller whole for selling them a stolen watch. Especially when you take into account how many watches get stolen world wide. But you don't see the correlation of post concerning grey market trusted dealers making things right with stolen watches sold to clients. That doesn't add up and it is very weird.









I will not be taking your advice so that is a "no" from me. What is your reasoning for not thinking about a worst case scenario with a luxury item? Are you better off having thought or not thought about a worse case scenario when it actually happens? I'm really confused by your line of thinking.





I would wager that more times then not when a watch is stolen, sold to a grey dealer, sold to a customer, seized by RSC when serviced that more times then not the grey "trusted" dealer tells the customer to take them to court. The customer probably gives up and just counts it as a loss. I bet this is what happens more times then not with these so called trusted dealers. Or else we would hear more stories about trusted dealers making things right. and we don't really hear that or at least i don't.

Do you have even a single example of a situation playing out like this? Or are you actually asking grey dealers to defend their reputation by somehow proving they would react a certain way in your fantasy world?

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk

[joli160]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

I can't doubt that. But heck why not offer as a trusted seller the guarantee that if the watch is reported stolen and seize the customer is made whole and fully refunded. I mean they are trusted right, or not trusted that much? or kinda trusted, but not totally trusted?

Fight your vendetta elsewhere and stop potential slandering legitimate businesses. You don’t like trusted sellers buy elsewhere, simple as that.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

I would wager that more times then not when a watch is stolen, sold to a grey dealer, sold to a customer, seized by RSC when serviced that more times then not the grey "trusted" dealer tells the customer to take them to court. The customer probably gives up and just counts it as a loss. I bet this is what happens more times then not with these so called trusted dealers. Or else we would hear more stories about trusted dealers making things right. and we don't really hear that or at least i don't.

Right. "I sold you a stollen watch. So what? Sue me!" I am sure that happens a lot. Not.

In the US (and most other justidictions I am aware of), a sale by a merchant usually carries implies warranties. The most basic of which is the implied warranty of title.

And in many states selling stollen goods would also be an unfair trade practice.

I would trust a trusted seller not to commit suicide by jury.

Please note that this post does not constitute legal advice. So, if you are concerned about the issue, ask your lawyer.

[hondacb1002]

Originally Posted by joli160

Fight your vendetta elsewhere and stop potential slandering legitimate businesses. You don’t like trusted sellers buy elsewhere, simple as that.

what are you going on about? I thought these people were trusted? these are your words not mine. I am asking what exactly trusted means specifically and then all of a sudden people come out of the wood work saying its not ok to ask! It is really strange to proclaim someone is a trusted dealer and then they don't offer the guarantee that if the watch is reported stolen and seized by RSC the customer is made whole and fully refunded. This imo should be standard operating procedure for anyone who proclaims they are trusted and stands behind the integrity of their product.

People who deal with stolen goods often will never offer the guarantee of making the customer whole if they sell them something that is stolen and then taken from the customer by authorities etc.

I guess these guys are trusted dealers. But if the shit hits the fan well you know how it goes. They will not stand behind their product and offer a full refund and make the customer whole if the product they sold happens to be stolen? Is that really asking a lot for a trusted seller?


And furthermore if any of these trusted dealers wanna make a post and offer a guarantee that if they sell something that is seized by RSC upon servicing step right up and post here. But it is crickets from trusted dealers as far as i can tell, but not from the rolex forum peanut gallery!

[Easy E]

Have you called or contacted any of the trusted sellers here and asked them your question(s) directly? Give that a shot. Seriously, just ask.

[S’portEye]

Why ask the question if you have already made up your mind? Nothing anyone says will change your position. Let it go. Buy from an AD.