Alignment of Minute Hand with Second Hand

[Tempo]

I'm looking for a surefire way of adjusting the minute hand so that it arrives at the marker at the exact moment the second hand points to "12 o'clock."

I usually pull out crown to stop the second hand when it touches "12 o'clock" and adjust the minute hand to point directly at the appropriate marker. But when the crown is pushed in and the second hand starts moving, the minute is not in perfect alignment with the second hand. It takes a few tries to get it just right because the minute hand seems to shift a bit when I push the crown in.

Does anyone know any techniques to align the minute hand and second hand more accurately? I've had a TT datejust and SS date for about 20 years, and have just acquired a new SD. These watches are so accurate, it seems a shame when the hands are not in proper alignment.

Thanks for your advice!

[Ck8]

Originally Posted by Tempo

I'm looking for a surefire way of adjusting the minute hand so that it arrives at the marker at the exact moment the second hand points to "12 o'clock."
I usually pull out crown to stop the second hand when it touches "12 o'clock" and adjust the minute hand to point directly at the appropriate marker. But when the crown is pushed in and the second hand starts moving, the minute is not in perfect alignment with the second hand. It takes a few tries to get it just right because the minute hand seems to shift a bit when I push the crown in.

Does anyone know any techniques to align the minute hand and second hand more accurately? I've had a TT datejust and SS date for about 20 years, and have just acquired a new SD. These watches are so accurate, it seems a shame when the hands are not in proper alignment.


Thanks for your advice!

There are models that do that and I had a DateJust that did that. You have to set the second hand to quarter to the hour and the minute to the exact 12 o'clock position. Push the crown in when the it is quarter to the minute making sure that the minute hand don't move, sometimes slightly. I think on these models the second hand engages first then the minute hand and is about 15 seconds delay.
I have a IWC that needs to set the same way. There are other Rolex models, I think it is the newer model as I have a Daytona that do not have the same issue, I can set both the second and minute hands at the 12 o'clock position and both would engage at the same time when the crown is pushed back in.

I hope that is clear to you.

[gasguy98]

I have non Rolex watches that I line up also. All I can write is when you push the crown in do it slowly, like the way your supposed to pull the trigger while firing a rifle. Yeah, if I do it too fast the minute hand jumps a few mm.

[stanislav]

I think that my hour hand is 2 minutes ahead of the minute hand hitting 12 o'clock, when it hits the hour marker
Is it common and I should leave it alone, or I should get it fixed if possible?

[lorsban]

What I do is wait for the second hand to hit 12 when I pull crown. It's a bit hit or miss, though. Sometimes I'm spot on. Sometimes, I'm off a second or two.

[Tools]

That's always a tough one because when you push the crown in, the gears have to mesh tooth-to-tooth. They are seldom perfectly aligned after you move the minute hand out of position...

[SPACE-DWELLER]

There is a bit about the sec./minute hands alignment (play in the hands) in the FAQ's, the part "Winding Setting Your Watch".

[f16570]

And I thought it was just mine!

[Tempo]

Thanks for the helpful advice folks.

Extremely useful FAQ, Bo!

I'll be practicing on the SD. It is so satisfying when the hands are all synchronised, and so frustrating when they are not!

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by Tempo

Thanks for the helpful advice folks.

Extremely useful FAQ, Bo!

I'll be practicing on the SD. It is so satisfying when the hands are all synchronised, and so frustrating when they are not!

Speaking of the SD, the "play in the hands" seem to vary depending on the watch and how the movement was tuned. On my SD, you get perfected hands alignment if you first turn the minute hand like 10 minutes past the marker and then back again to "15 secs. BEFORE the marker. Turning the crown clockwise ever so slightly to have the minute hand "jump" (thus the term "play" in hands), let's the minute hand stand pointing exactly on the minute marker. Once I press the crown in, at the next full minute the minute hand points exactly on the minute marker.

On the Daytona that I also have and on a now flipped SS Sub Date, the play in the hands were corrected the OPPOSITE way, as described in the FAQ's:

If you want to make the minute hand points EXACTLY on the given minute when the seconds hand has reached "12" (or "60" seconds), then you must know that there is some "play" in the hands.
So if you just set the minute hand according to our example (EXACTLY 11 AM so that the minute hand will point exactly on the 12) then you will notice that by "one minute past 11 AM" the minute hand will NOT (or probably not!) point EXACTLY and spot on on the minute but rather somewhat (like 15 seconds) PAST it due to the "play" in the hands!

Solution: Following the example, turn the minute hand approximately TEN minutes PAST "11 AM" and then turn the minute hand BACK again to the EXACT time (hour hand point at "11" and minute and seconds hand pointing - exactly - on "12"). Then - EVER SO GENTLY - turn the winding crown clockwise so that the minute hand actually points a bit (like "15 seconds" PAST the full minute marker). That way you adjusted to the "play" of the minute hand, and the minute hand will point EXACTLY on the minute next time the seconds hand reaches "twelve".

So in other words, bearing the play in the hands in mind, I'd practice a bit and you will figure out how YOUR watch works and reacts.

[Felly Jr.]

All of my Daytona's have been spot on and I haven't had to fiddle with the hands at all to get them to line up but all my other Rollies have had this mis alignment issue. Must be the superior 4130 movement I guess?

[Tempo]

Another question: Do the second/minute hands lose alignment over time and need to be re-synchronised periodically?

Thanks for the extra tips, Bo. I tried this on my SD and it seems to react exactly lilke yours.

I guess alignment method varies from watch to watch and requires experimentation to figure out the amount and direction of "play" involved for each watch.

[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by SPACE-DWELLER

Speaking of the SD, the "play in the hands" seem to vary depending on the watch and how the movement was tuned. On my SD, you get perfected hands alignment if you first turn the minute hand like 10 minutes past the marker and then back again to "15 secs. BEFORE the marker. Turning the crown clockwise ever so slightly to have the minute hand "jump" (thus the term "play" in hands), let's the minute hand stand pointing exactly on the minute marker. Once I press the crown in, at the next full minute the minute hand points exactly on the minute marker.

On the Daytona that I also have and on a now flipped SS Sub Date, the play in the hands were corrected the OPPOSITE way, as described in the FAQ's:

If you want to make the minute hand points EXACTLY on the given minute when the seconds hand has reached "12" (or "60" seconds), then you must know that there is some "play" in the hands.
So if you just set the minute hand according to our example (EXACTLY 11 AM so that the minute hand will point exactly on the 12) then you will notice that by "one minute past 11 AM" the minute hand will NOT (or probably not!) point EXACTLY and spot on on the minute but rather somewhat (like 15 seconds) PAST it due to the "play" in the hands!

Solution: Following the example, turn the minute hand approximately TEN minutes PAST "11 AM" and then turn the minute hand BACK again to the EXACT time (hour hand point at "11" and minute and seconds hand pointing - exactly - on "12"). Then - EVER SO GENTLY - turn the winding crown clockwise so that the minute hand actually points a bit (like "15 seconds" PAST the full minute marker). That way you adjusted to the "play" of the minute hand, and the minute hand will point EXACTLY on the minute next time the seconds hand reaches "twelve".

So in other words, bearing the play in the hands in mind, I'd practice a bit and you will figure out how YOUR watch works and reacts.

I think Bo is pretty much right (is he ever anything elce) If i remember back to my Engineering training, we used to take a slide on a machine past the figure then back to set it accuratly, this removed the 'play/backlash' in the gearing, a watch works in the same manner. Even though they are produced as accuratly as possible, there will still be some error/play in the tiny gears that the watch uses, this is being'forced' slightly by the pressure of manualy adjusting the gear train, and the streeses, backlash, play, movement and so on in the watch gearing will be evidedn. If you take the minute hand past the time, either way and then guid it more gracefully to the minute you require and follow Bo's guidlines above, it will help to set the watch more accuratly.

I think i got that about right.....makes sence in my head, may not have explained it very well though!!

[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by Tempo

Another question: Do the second/minute hands lose alignment over time and need to be re-synchronised periodically?

Thanks for the extra tips, Bo. I tried this on my SD and it seems to react exactly lilke yours.

I guess alignment method varies from watch to watch and requires experimentation to figure out the amount and direction of "play" involved for each watch.

Im not sure, but i think that on most of the Rolex movements, all the gear trains that move the hands are linked, except when you adjust them, so if they are set, the minute hand and second hand will move together, except one faster than the other, but the ratio between the two will be constant, except for any minescule discrepancy in the gears inside. Thus, the two will not require adjustment once set perfectly, save to adjust for loss/gain in the watch over time. Both will differ by the ammount your watch will loose/gain over a set period. Same for the hour hand on non GMT modles. I cant help with the Daytona. I have no idea how that complication will work.

I may be wrong, but thats how i understand it?

[fmalloy]

One thing I've found on my GMTII-C - I suspect the minute markers are not completely even around the dial. I set it to hit a marker right to the second, but then half way around the dial the minute hand is a little off, then back to another part of the dial it hits it again.

Anyone else see this?

[Baptistman]

Got the answer, stop spending hours gazing at it for hours.

[stanislav]

Originally Posted by fmalloy

One thing I've found on my GMTII-C - I suspect the minute markers are not completely even around the dial. I set it to hit a marker right to the second, but then half way around the dial the minute hand is a little off, then back to another part of the dial it hits it again.

Anyone else see this?

i have the same impression - exp 1

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by fmalloy

One thing I've found on my GMTII-C - I suspect the minute markers are not completely even around the dial. I set it to hit a marker right to the second, but then half way around the dial the minute hand is a little off, then back to another part of the dial it hits it again.

Anyone else see this?

Yes, I believe the topic of this quality control issue was put on here a while back. Good point!

[Cmaster03]

Glad this was brought back up actually...

When I asked my "hacking" question earlier today I didn't realize it had been addressed so recently. And I have been on the board ALOT over the weekend. Just missed the post somehow.

Oops.

[Tempo]

Finally figured out the right method of aligning the hands on my SD.

Incredibly, the minute hand now points precisely at the appropriate marker each time the second hand hits zero!

The minute hand has rotated 3 times around the dial fully synchronised with the second hand.

Here is the method (notice it owes everything to Bo's procedure.)

1. When the second hand hits zero, pull out the crown to freeze it at that point.

2. Turn the minute hand clockwise 5 seconds ahead of the minute marker at which time will be set.

3. Notice the minute hand moves freely for about 2 mm when you adjust it, before it encounters resistance to the left and right. This free-play what Bo defines as the margin of "play" of the minute hand.

3. Slowly nudge the minute hand anti-clockwise until it points directly to the specific minute marker. The crucial trick here is to ensure there is absolutely no free play when you try to nudge the minute hand further clockwise. You should feel definite resistance. When there is the slightest free-play in the anti-clockwise direction, it will result in lagging and overshoot in the minute hand. All the free-play should be in the clock wise direction.

4. Push in the crown to synchronize the watch with your preferred time reference.

Those who have tried every alignment method in vain, I hope this method will work for you.

It is just so essential and gratifying when the minute hand arrives at the appointed marker each time precisely when the second hand hits zero. It would not be a superlative chronometer otherwise!

[Tools]

All my hands align........

[Roger]

At last I now have some of the answers I have been looking for. I only ever have a problem with the alignment on my Exp 11470. Even when set perfectly it can then appear to go out of alignment at certain points of the dial. There is no consistency to the pattern. Sometimes it will run for days without going off track.

I have a Zentih El Primero and there is absolutely no slack in the hands when changing the time. Just align the chosen minute with the second hand at zero and it always stays perfect. Just one problem in that the movement is non hacking so good time has to be set when the watch is first wound up.

My other Rolies are easy to align but still have slack in the hands. I firmly believe this is a quality issue and if you ever check out the hand slack on other good watches such as IWC, I think you will also find there is no slack, so why Rolex?

Regards

[Tempo]

Originally Posted by Tools

All my hands align........

Tools, I was not referring to this type of alignment. My SD is OK like yours in this regard. The problem is the inability of the minute hand to point directly at the appropropriate minute marker each time the second hand hits zero.

Roger, I'm not surprised you see this flaw in other Rolexes. I've see it in my other Rolexes and those owned by my friends (Yachtmaster, Explorer etc.) I'm not so sure why Rolex tends to be sloppy in ensuring the hands are tightly synchronised. Perhaps this is one of the necessary compromises of a design that favours durability over refinement.

I'm still having this problem after trying such a variety of approaches.