Rolex vs Rolex

[belray]

Hi guys. I have posted this on another forum but to get the best possible cross-section of responses - here goes. I am about to invest in my first Rolex, as I have always admired them and thought that people who wore them had an unexplainable mystique. My Speedmaster is getting a bit battered, so I figured another quality watch would assist in the rotation also.

I though that I had a good grasp on the Rolex line of sport watches. The more research I do though, shows me I don't know nearly enough to make an informed decision about actually parting with my hard earned cash to buy one (AUD$5000.00???). I was amazed that I was able to con my wife into "going along" with me buying one to celebrate my 40th birthday (she is extremely easy to get on with and doesn't and never has nagged - good value).

Anyhow, I digress. Should I ever run into financial trouble, which is the best watch for resale between the Submariner, Sea Dweller or the GMT2? I am very partial to all three and to be honest, if the right Sub or SD came up, I would probably buy it as I don't see a great difference between the two (I am not a diver).

What is the benefit in your opinions of owning a Rolex? As I eluded to earlier in this post, I have always held Rolex in high esteem and have thought that there was always something more than meets the eye to someone wearing one. Prestige doesn't even enter the equation in my case, because out of all the people I socialse and mix with 1 in 20 would recognise the brand, and maybe 1 in 30 would know what they are worth. This to me is one of the main attractions of the watch - mine and my wifes secret!!

Finally if I may, what is the difference between the GMT Master 1 and 2? In which direction does the bezel rotate and does the bezel have a ratchet function?

Sorry for the long post, but I must be sure before I part with my cash. Thanks heaps......

[Rockrolex]

First of all, welcome to TRF, belray. Glad you found our merry madhouse.

As for your question, I would never use resale value as the reason to buy a watch. The odds are you will lose money from your original investment if you buy NIB.

Now if you want to know the relative merits of the Sub, SD and GMT, here are some.

The Sub is the quintessential sport Rolex. It's the one people think of when you mention Rolex. It's always in style and is a solid workhorse. You can get the Sub in SS, TT, or YG. You can get it with the traditional black bezel or the LV (green) bezel.

The SD is a Sub on steroids. It's a little smaller than the Sub (1 mm less), it does not have the cyclops for the date window, and can dive a lot deeper than the Sub (or man for that matter). The SD is like a Ford Model T. You can get any color you want as long as it's black.

The GMT-II (they don't make the GMT-I anymore) is similar to the Sub but more versatile. It has a 4th (24 hour) hand to keep track of a second time zone. The bezel rotates bidirectionally. It's a great watch for travellers. And it's as tough as the Sub. You can get the GMT with three different bezel colors; it also comes in SS, TT and YG. The Anniversary GMT-II comes with a green bezel option and a green 24 hour hand.

My recommendation is that you go to an AD and try them all. One will smile more than the others. That's the one to get.

[rollie pollie]

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

The odds are you will lose money from your original investment if you buy NIB.

I purchased my stainless steel Submariner (16800) new in October, 1984 and if I had to sell it today, I don't think I'd lose too much money.

[Otis]

Welcome to TRF belray! Glad to see another Australian in the ranks.

Congratulations on your upcoming birthday & watch!
As the others have already said, try one on and whichever one smiles at you will be the one. In terms of resaleability, My guess is that the SS Sub date would be the one to keep its value the most, as ed said: it's the quintessential sports rolex. One thing also to keep in mind is the service costs, I'm not sure on the particulars, but I believe your Sea-dweller may be more expensive to service...

Best of luck and keep us informed!

[Uncle-AJ]

Hi there and welcome to TRF.

I go along with Ed, resale value is not a reason to buy a watch.

I'd go for a sub because I think it epitomises the brand.

The benefits of owning a Rolex are knowing you have a reliable well made timekeeper on your wrist. Plus you can feel proud wearing it.

The differences between the GMT's has been covered.

[mike]

Hi Belray, Let me also extend a very warm welcome to TRF.

Man! that's a lot of questions! I'll try to give my feelings on some.
First, I think the benefits of owning a Rolex (or any other brand of fine watch) is in great measure a subjective thing. Rolex makes strong reliable watches with a lot of great history. Taken care of a Rolex will last a lifetime.
Few brands have the name recognition Rolex has. When one thinks of the "tool watch" concept--watches made for a specific purpose Rolex is one brand that comes to mind.

I agree with ED, resale value is not something I would first think of when buying a Rolex (with perhaps a couple exceptions) but rather "what do I want the watch to do?"
Given that, the Sub, SD seem to hold their value and have a bit higher re-sale than the GMT if push comes to shove.

Which reference you choose is really a matter of taste. All will serve you well.
The Submariner date is probably the most poplular sport model. A classic piece and one of the most copied watches there is.
The SD is the big brother of the sub differing in the thickness of the case, the lack of a cyclops(giving it in my view a more utilitarian look) and an HE valve. Both use the same 3135 COSC movement, and in the real world one is as "tough" as the other.
Side by side


The GMT master I and II as you call them are multi time zone watches that have several distinct differences.
First, as Ed said the GMT MASTER reference 1675 or 16750 is no longer made.
The 1675, a vintage piece, used a 1575 movement, did not have a quick-set date feature, and in the eariler models till circa 1970 or so used a non-hacking movement. (Second hand would not stop when the winding crown was pulled out.
It was my first Rolex and is my sentamental favorite. However the lack of quick-set and hacking can make it a real pain to set. It also used an acryllic crystal--scratches easier than modern sapphire.
1675


The 16750, also a GMT MASTER is a bit more modern, introduced circa 1979-80. It also is no longer made, but was the first to incorporate a quick-set date and hacking feature. It also used an acryllic crystal. Both the 1675 and 16750 used the older thin case and are extremely comfortable to wear. The 16750 also was "upgraded" to a fast beat 3xxx movement.
16750

Visually, there is little difference between the 1675 and 16750. Both can be fitted with either a Red/Blue or Black bezel insert.

The 16710 is the MASTER II.
The 16710 incorporates a "jump hour" feature allowing you to advance the hour hand in one houe increments(or back) and because of this haswhat's know as a semi-quick set date feature. Because of this feature the 24 hr hand and 12 hour hand can move independently of each other as opposed to being synced together as with the 1675/16750
The 16710 come with three bezel options, the third being Red/Black.
16710


I'm sure I've forgotten something, hope this helps.

By the way, congrats onowning one of the best watches out there. The Speedmaster is a great watch with a ton of history!!
Mine circa 1977-80

[mikey]

Hi, I know what you mean by resale if you ever get into financial woes, but if your buying brand new you are going to lose money trying to resell. Kinda like buying a brand new car driving off then it considered used immediately! I like the SS DJ, and if you pay $1500-2000 for a Preowned one then you probably will get nearly 100% of your money back if you decided to resale. But, the Sub Date is the most popular Sport Model especailly the LV Sub. You will love the Maxi dial, but you must make a choice.

[Gedanken]

Welcome aboard, belray! What state are you in? There's a few of us in Victoria and we get together every once in a while, so feel free to join us!

Okay, like the others I'd advocate against looking at getting a Rolex in resale terms. However, I did pick up my Sea Dweller in Singapore for about A$5200, and recently I spoke with a dealer in Glen Waverley about what it would be worth now. Despite two years of constant wear and a ding on the case, he examined it and said he'd be asking about A$7000 for it as a starting offer. Obviously the final price would probably be lower, but I'm just reporting his estimate here.

Now unless you were working for someone like Comex, you wouldn't actually need a Sub, much less a Sea Dweller. However, I'll speak from my own experience here. I also own a DateJust and a Tudor 79170 chronograph, but it's the SD that I wear 90% of the time. I've been thinking of getting a GMT-II as well, but the SD does the job so well (it doesn't matter if I'm in a suit or in jeans, it just goes with everything) that I've really taken my time about getting round to getting the GMT.

[amanda]

Originally Posted by Otis

Welcome to TRF belray! Glad to see another Australian in the ranks.

Congratulations on your upcoming birthday & watch!
As the others have already said, try one on and whichever one smiles at you will be the one. In terms of resaleability, My guess is that the SS Sub date would be the one to keep its value the most, as ed said: it's the quintessential sports rolex. One thing also to keep in mind is the service costs, I'm not sure on the particulars, but I believe your Sea-dweller may be more expensive to service...

Best of luck and keep us informed!

I'd agree with these sentiments 100% Having just sold a GMT Master 2 and also not that long ago shopped for a GMT Master 2... the SUBs I saw in second hand dealers sold like hot cakes, whereas the GMTs are still there now 4-5mths down the track from when I first saw them in these stores.

Do make sure you by the watch that you like the most!!! If you settle for what you believe has the better resale you might regret it.... just my 2c worth

[belray]

Thanks guys. You have helped me immensly. I will be buying used. I am pretty sure that it will be a Sub with date. Hopefully, recent model with box and papers. The resale value is not the sole reason for buying the watch, but I feel it is a consideration for a $5000 outlay. When I finally get one, I will put some photos up. I still love the Speedie Pro though......

[Otis]

Originally Posted by belray

Thanks guys. You have helped me immensly. I will be buying used. I am pretty sure that it will be a Sub with date. Hopefully, recent model with box and papers. The resale value is not the sole reason for buying the watch, but I feel it is a consideration for a $5000 outlay. When I finally get one, I will put some photos up. I still love the Speedie Pro though......

A man after my own heart!


If you don't mind me asking, whereabouts in Aus are you?

[Prince]

Welcome to TRF, belray. Congrats on reaching the "Big 4-Oh" soon, and hoping you get the watch you are looking for.

Just a note: After you get it, we would love to see photos of it. As you can probably already tell, we are fairly ga-ga over watch pics!!!!

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by belray

Thanks guys. You have helped me immensly. I will be buying used. I am pretty sure that it will be a Sub with date. Hopefully, recent model with box and papers. The resale value is not the sole reason for buying the watch, but I feel it is a consideration for a $5000 outlay. When I finally get one, I will put some photos up. I still love the Speedie Pro though......

Here's a tip, belray. Watch JJ's posts - he babies his Rolexes, and sooner or later he's going to find a reason for getting a new Rolex, so it's only a matter of time before that "I'll never part with this" Sub Date of his will be on the market.

[AJC]

Hi Belray,

From my experience here in Oz the Sub date is the most popular and probably on par with the Seadweller.

Even though the GMT is the best watch, the Subs still sell better.

Aaron

Mike,

Great picture history.

[JJ Irani]

Hi Belray,

A big welcome to TRF. Looks like my good friends have just about covered everything you ever need to know about the 3 most popular Rolex Sports models.

Pesonally, I own the Sub-date 16610 and am very happy with it. You go with whichever one smiles the most at you - all 3 are superb.

Good luck in your final choice.

Cheers - JJ

[belray]

For those who are interested, I live in Canberra Australia. A geat part of the world. I work in the public service after serving in the Australian Regular Army. The hunt for my watch contiinues.........

Cheers..

[Gedanken]

Ah, one of our members, AusPete, moved down to Melbourne from Canberra recently. You're in good company here!

[Lol-x]

I would suggest a 50th Anniversary Submariner, it is much clearer than the regular Submariner and more sought after. It may cost a little more, but in my opinion well worth it.
I have one on my wrist now, and it is very accurate, alluring and worth a lot on re-sale. Check it out!

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

I would suggest a 50th Anniversary Submariner, it is much clearer than the regular Submariner and more sought after. It may cost a little more, but in my opinion well worth it.
I have one on my wrist now, and it is very accurate, alluring and worth a lot on re-sale. Check it out!

But it's GREEN!

[Otis]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

But it's GREEN!

Yeah, that's because it's gone off.....

I'm actually quite partial to them. You would never think that it would work, but somehow rolex manage to do it.

[Lol-x]

You can always get a black insert to use if you want.
Anyway, the Green Sub is a worthy option so give it some thought. The maxi dial is the way of the future and is a harking back to the tool watches of the past.

[astcell]

With the new dial we can now tell the "new" members of the Rolex family vs. those who have been dedicated all along.

[jac67]

Rolex and investment should not be used in the same sentence!

If you want an investment, go for a Term Deposit.

Watch prices (especially vintage) are set by taste. As tastes change, prices follow.

Buy a Rolex because you like it, and buy the model which YOU think looks the best.

However, in reality it's nice to know that if you so wished, you can sell it easily and not lose too much.

From what I have seen, the Submariner will be the easiest to sell, then the Sea-Dweller and lastly the GMT Master II. Please note I am referring to new watches and NOT vintage.

Good luck.


John.

[DIVER4USN]

The Sea Dweller is the watch of choice for me, I am a Diver that has a chance to use it. A good rule of thumb would be: If the majority of your friends would give you that "Deer in the headlghts" look when you explain the difference between a SD and a Sub, just get the Sub. All you have to say is: "It is a dive watch". (Just not THE Dive watch) Sorry, partiality slipped out.

[Sam]

From everything I've seen, the Sub (16610) holds it's value better than the GMT, but not to the point that I would buy a Sub if you really like a GMTII better.

Me....I like Subs, but I LOVE GMTs. And you can swap out the bezel insert for a completely different look.

[Rockrolex]

Originally Posted by DIVER4USN

The Sea Dweller is the watch of choice for me, I am a Diver that has a chance to use it. A good rule of thumb would be: If the majority of your friends would give you that "Deer in the headlghts" look when you explain the difference between a SD and a Sub, just get the Sub. All you have to say is: "It is a dive watch". (Just not THE Dive watch) Sorry, partiality slipped out.

Welcome to TRF, Jason. Thought you could sneak in with an innocuous post, did you? No way. We're always on the lookout for new members so we can give them a warm welcome.

Stick around and join the fun at our merry madhouse. And how about some pics of your SD.

[mikey]

I like the Vintage Rolex more than the newer ones. The fact that a Rolex is vintage means it has stories to tell if in its oriiginal condition. I just love the acrylic crystal bubbled look on the vintage Datejust and Sub/SD/GMT etc. I am sure back in the old days people bought a Rolex to really wear in whatever extreme conditions whether mountain climbing, jet skiing etc. Today, you got sapphire glass and D shapped links. Too formal

[Dr S]

I'd go for the 50th Anniversary (on my wrist right now), if you want a sub that is (there are a lot more of them about though) - but the Seadweller will always be worth more (and it is a much rarer watch for not much more money) and is still Rolex's Premier sports watch - it also has a cleaner look (flat glass) The Seadweller is a heavier watch though and you should try them on first. The GMT is only 100m water proof - enough for most of us - but if you want a divers watch it is ruled out - again it comes with lots of different variations of dial colour and so there are lots of them about (and for sale second hand).

My first Rolex was the Explorer II - I loved the looks and had to have it - but always always wanted the Seadweller and just had to buy it. I love the cleaner look - also dependent on the size of your wrist adn need for a date - the Explorer (one) is probably the cleanest looking Rolex imho