A. Lange & Söhne and The Holy Trinity of Watches.

[mario1971]

Does A. Lange & Söhne have the right to sit on the front bench of The Holy Trinity of Watches? Looking at their history, certainly not. Does their innovative approach to their projects, as well as the legendary perfection of every detail, give them the right to knock on the gates of watch paradise?

[Notimetodie]

Yes. 1. PP, 1. ALS, distant third.

[dpj17]

Without question, imho the best quality on any "major" production brand from top to bottom.

[Pw92676]

I think classical HH relies heavily on heritage. For this reason, it is what it is. Otherwise many modern independents would be in the discussion.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by dpj17

Without question, imho the best quality on any "major" production brand from top to bottom.

Breguet models in the same price range are often better finished. IE the tradition.

[NYG1121]

Originally Posted by mario1971

Does A. Lange & Söhne have the right to sit on the front bench of The Holy Trinity of Watches? Looking at their history, certainly not. Does their innovative approach to their projects, as well as the legendary perfection of every detail, give them the right to knock on the gates of watch paradise?

Of course it is. I would argue its superior but of course I am biased!

[misochew]

My biased vote is yes. However they’ve only been around for 30 years

Maybe this is a question for our grandchildren to answer 40-50 years from now?

Hopefully mine will be thankful grandpa had an unhealthy obsession with ALS.

[MILGAUSS88]

I think the Holy Trinity of watches is what it is, and can't change.
3 Swiss companies with a long history of haute horology.

Having said that, ALS is better quality than the Holy Trinity, along with a slew of independents.

[unknown]

that holy trinity is just BS
As much as I like the 3 AP PP VC ... Breguet is much more important when you read the history and inventions these brands have/made

[mario1971]

The same can be said about Jaeger-LeCoultre, and yet no one mentions them in the holy trinity.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by unknown

that holy trinity is just BS
As much as I like the 3 AP PP VC ... Breguet is much more important when you read the history and inventions these brands have/made

Breguet as in Abraham Louis Breguet, the Swatch owned company is utter sh!te and they live off the name they bought, it has nothing to do with the legendary watchmaker.

Breguet and Blancpain have the highest return of watches within warranty and I'd never spend my hard earned money on one of them, no matter how good they look.

[raclaims]

I see nothing wrong with using the “holy trinity” as a benchmark while still respecting their place in the history of HH. Using that approach one can feel very confident in a Lange purchase and obsession as compared to the long storied history of PP/VC/AP - Lange shines bright as a magnificent watch maker. Time marches on - we should just be thrilled we were there when they started out and got to enjoy the early days of the brand and rest assured that our grandchildren will marvel at the pieces we’ve left them to enjoy and think of us in this snapshot of time.

[raclaims]

I mean look at these - come on!









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[EEpro]

Yep, just give them another 100-200 years and if they keep this up they will be revered the same way.

[mario1971]

For what and how they do with their products - they already have my respect. :)

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Breguet as in Abraham Louis Breguet, the Swatch owned company is utter sh!te and they live off the name they bought, it has nothing to do with the legendary watchmaker.

Breguet and Blancpain have the highest return of watches within warranty and I'd never spend my hard earned money on one of them, no matter how good they look.

Interesting to know. Thanks.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by raclaims

I mean look at these - come on!









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Arguably leads the pack in both finishing and innovation. The only drawback I see is their servicing is expensive and slow.

[Copasetic]

Originally Posted by raclaims

i mean look at these - come on!









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wow!

[dpj17]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Breguet models in the same price range are often better finished. IE the tradition.

I also have a tradition, absolutely love it and agree Breguet doesn't get their due. For me, there is just a different feel to a Lange than any other watch. Quality covers more than just finishing.

[raclaims]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

Arguably leads the pack in both finishing and innovation. The only drawback I see is their servicing is expensive and slow.

To their credit they are trying to address this with the new nyc boutique entire second floor now dedicated to a service dept for the USA

[vitalsigns]

In my mind, the Holy Trinity designation is more historical reference than anything else, and so it should stay that way (PP, VC & AP only). It's a nod to history, nothing more.

IMO, other brands have clearly passed at least one of the Big 3, in particular, AP, which is now really just the Royal Oak Company.

Breguet easily surpasses AP now.

VC still has some incredible creations and craftsmanship, most notably outside their more pedestrian everyday offerings, so it's debatable whether they'd fall within a contemporary Top 3 (probably not, but likely the Top 5).

Lange certainly would be in a contemporary Top 5...and a good argument can be made for inclusion in the Top 3.

It's hard to rank brands because our own personal preferences and criteria differ so much from others'.

[Russell996]

Certainly Lange make some amazing pieces, these four being favourites in my collection. Personally, I think they need to start offering some different case designs and they can also be a little on the large size sometimes.

[will_scofield]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Certainly Lange make some amazing pieces, these four being favourites in my collection. Personally, I think they need to start offering some different case designs and they can also be a little on the large size sometimes.

Wow! Love that variant of the L1 Tourbillon, never seen one before. Appears to be platinum from the metal tone and the 38.5mm size, can you share more info about it and a reference?

You have fantastic taste.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Breguet as in Abraham Louis Breguet, the Swatch owned company is utter sh!te and they live off the name they bought, it has nothing to do with the legendary watchmaker.

Breguet and Blancpain have the highest return of watches within warranty and I'd never spend my hard earned money on one of them, no matter how good they look.

I respect your opinion and knowledge a lot bad. As a watchmaker you definitely know what you’re talking about but I do have another opinion or better another experience

I own 3 breguet and never had an issue with one, I have a few friends owning breguet too and o lu one of them had a problem with a perpetual calendar chronograph. Always in the month of November it got stuck.

Now when talking about AP…. I honestly don’t understand this brand still exists
They’re beautiful but utterly crap.
Ik had 2 times problems with an offshore. One just stopped working and another one lost 2 hands.
3 close friends own Royal Oak and offshores too…. ALL 3 of them had problems with their AP
Chronograph didn’t work anymore, date window didn’t move anymore, screws fell out ( even when using locktite )

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by will_scofield

Wow! Love that variant of the L1 Tourbillon, never seen one before. Appears to be platinum from the metal tone and the 38.5mm size, can you share more info about it and a reference?

You have fantastic taste.

Lange 1 Tourbillon Handwerkskunst - edition of 20 from 2014 to commemorate the 20th anniversary of the brand.

https://www.alange-soehne.com/gb-en/...handwerkskunst

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/in...handwerkskunst

https://monochrome-watches.com/a-lan...rsary-edition/

[will_scofield]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Lange 1 Tourbillon Handwerkskunst - edition of 20 from 2014 to commemorate the 20th anniversary of the brand.

https://www.alange-soehne.com/gb-en/...handwerkskunst

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/in...handwerkskunst

https://monochrome-watches.com/a-lan...rsary-edition/

Thank you for sharing, pretty much a perfect watch. I'll keep an eye out if one pops up on the secondary market here in the US. The dial and movement side finishing and execution separates this from the other variants I have seen.

I have been debating getting the honey gold one but I prefer white metals and dark dials.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by will_scofield

Thank you for sharing, pretty much a perfect watch. I'll keep an eye out if one pops up on the secondary market here in the US. The dial and movement side finishing and execution separates this from the other variants I have seen.

I have been debating getting the honey gold one but I prefer white metals and dark dials.

Happy hunting. The last one I saw come to market was Phillips New York auction in June 2022.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by unknown

I respect your opinion and knowledge a lot bad. As a watchmaker you definitely know what you’re talking about but I do have another opinion or better another experience

I own 3 breguet and never had an issue with one, I have a few friends owning breguet too and o lu one of them had a problem with a perpetual calendar chronograph. Always in the month of November it got stuck.

Now when talking about AP…. I honestly don’t understand this brand still exists
They’re beautiful but utterly crap.
Ik had 2 times problems with an offshore. One just stopped working and another one lost 2 hands.
3 close friends own Royal Oak and offshores too…. ALL 3 of them had problems with their AP
Chronograph didn’t work anymore, date window didn’t move anymore, screws fell out ( even when using locktite )

I'm glad you didn't have any issues with Breguet so far!
You're right about AP, they're unreliable and their aftersales is a joke. Hit or miss with these brands.

I have many friends in the industry + experience myself, seen enough to scare me away from many brands... If going haute horlogerie I'd stick with Patek & Lange.

Doesn't take away from the fact that a lot of brands make incredibly beautiful watches, just giving my own opinions on it.

[charger_vital]

It would be hard for me to put ALS in the category of “trinity” given its dark past. And I’m not buying the argument that the company is different than the Nazi company 50 years before it. It has the same name and same ownership lineage and that matters for a lot of reasons. But even looking past that, and it’s a big looking past, the design language is off putting and tired.

They are well built and well finished. But not more so than GF, Debethune, Laurent Ferrier, Dufour, Smith, D Candaux, Halter (the list goes on) and in many cases ALS comes up short when compared on this level.

So I guess I’m at a loss. If you like the watch, that’s great. There are a couple of gems in the brand. Enjoy it. But with a terrible history, unremarkable design language, no iconoclastic model, finishing that is on par with many others, what exactly do they do that puts them in the category of trinity?


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[Copasetic]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

It would be hard for me to put ALS in the category of “trinity” given its dark past. And I’m not buying the argument that the company is different than the Nazi company 50 years before it. It has the same name and same ownership lineage and that matters for a lot of reasons. But even looking past that, and it’s a big looking past, the design language is off putting and tired.

They are well built and well finished. But not more so than GF, Debethune, Laurent Ferrier, Dufour, Smith, D Candaux, Halter (the list goes on) and in many cases ALS comes up short when compared on this level.

So I guess I’m at a loss. If you like the watch, that’s great. There are a couple of gems in the brand. Enjoy it. But with a terrible history, unremarkable design language, no iconoclastic model, finishing that is on par with many others, what exactly do they do that puts them in the category of trinity?


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I think this video answers some of your questions:

https://www.youtube.com/live/8ZqMDj6...Y4mvy8baO0_Zc1