Grand Seiko held my watch for 5 months; said misaligned seconds hand is "within spec"

[In-N-Out]

I acquired the tentagraph from a grey dealer back in December 2023 (Brand New with stickers).

I promptly noticed the seconds hand not being aligned at 12 o'clock and made a thread about it.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=927931

After dropping it off at GS in Beverly Hills to get it fixed, they told me it will be sent to Japan and it would take 8-12 weeks. I've been on contact with them biweekly to see what the status was after the 12 week period, and then finally last week (nearly 5 months later), they told me they got the watch back but they didn't fire the alignment.

pics in that thread above.

Apparently GS said this is "within spec"

quite a laughable response and I guess they are taking a page out of the Tesla playbook lol

anyway, im not sure what the next step should be. to me, this is a huge defect on a $14k retail watch (I paid slightly less than that).

How hard should I press on this issue. I'm not happy about this and im shocked GS wouldn't stand by their product

[Fleetlord]

Push the boutique manager very hard. It’s the worst part of dealing with GS. They are very defensive about their defects and won’t bother fixing them.

I think that’s why they haven’t bothered to expand service in the US to match their sales channel growth, they really don’t think they have problems…lol

It’s too much WIS stress dealing with watches that can’t be fixed domestically. Takes too long, poor communication…etc

Good luck

[brandrea]

Those are press fit hands aren’t they? I can’t understand why they wouldn’t realign them

[Lol-x]

That's an horrendous response from Grand Seiko
They don't seem to realise that this kind of thing significantly damages their brand and undermines consumer confidence in spending huge sums of money on a watch.

[Andad]

Hodinkee posted an article on the Tentagraph last year.

The pix show a misaligned stopwatch hand.

This must be a common fault?


https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/gr...raph-live-pics

[1William]

Sorry to hear. Hope you can get it worked out. Please keep us posted.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Andad

Hodinkee posted an article on the Tentagraph last year.

The pix show a misaligned stopwatch hand.

This must be a common fault?


https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/gr...raph-live-pics

At least I guess you’ll never be late

[Giovannibravo]

Interesting. I didn't know GS has bad customer service when it comes to servicing your watches. Hopefully this gets sorted out.

[DonLee]

Originally Posted by Andad

Hodinkee posted an article on the Tentagraph last year.

The pix show a misaligned stopwatch hand.

This must be a common fault?


https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/gr...raph-live-pics

that could be just from not shooting the pic straight on.

[Gebbeth]

If that is within spec, then GS specs are out of whack. That misalignment would bug the hell out of me.

I had a long, tortuous, saga with GS service and my Night Birch. Was running 17 spd fast out of the box. Sent it back to the AD, who verified that the watch was off, and sent the watch to GS in New Jersey, only for them to send it to Japan for adjustment.

It took nearly 6 months to get it back. Constant calling to the AD to check on status, no dice.

When I got it back, still fast, although less so. It was still around +14spd fast. They very nicely put in a card about watch magnetism, basically a passive aggressive way of saying that it was my fault (I guess).

After trying to live with it running that fast, I sent it back, but this time directly to GS service center in New Jersey. Them getting back to me got delayed because they were in the process of relocating their HQ.

Anyway, got the watch back, this time after a month and a half or so. Still fast, but manageably fast.

Apart from what I think is an issue with their dual impulse escapement design, causing it to run fast (I believe there are several threads on this subject, as well as other sources), I would confirm that GS is pretty spotty when it comes to servicing their watches. They do seem defensive and eager to blame the customer for things.

Your picture and the Hodinkee picture are eerily similar, which leads me to believe there is something about the movement that doesn't keep it straight at the 12. Maybe this happens upon usage of the chrono....like the gears don't align correctly.

But I assume GS will say "No, not my problem. Everything seems fine to me."

[Fleetlord]

They drank from the sales increase stream and they are all about growth growth growth and not too interested in support.

They believe their own marketing puff about perfection...I mean why would they need to be bothered with warranty service? Their products are perfect and if you do find something, that's within spec.

I still have GS (got one coming in today) but they are really a PITA to deal with.

[RW16610]

I'm so sorry to hear this and see how seemingly difficult it is dealing with this brand. I hope this is somehow sorted out for you soon.

[In-N-Out]

You guys were right.

Right on queue, they blame the victim again. This time, they tell me I should have returned the watch within 14 days of purchase. (I bought from a reseller so I couldn’t).





Here is the “within standard” email




Here’s also another instance of them scolding me: initially they told me it’s a 10-11 week turnaround



They then scold me that that’s just the shipping time, not the total turnaround time. Real turnaround time is 5-8 months lol




Grand seiko is an absolute joke to deal with.

I have the SBGM221, White Birch, and this TENTAGRAPH. I’m considering selling all 3 based on this joke of an experience. Really puts a bad taste in my mouth. For a brand trying to grow and become a luxury brand, this isn’t how to do it

[RW16610]

In your shoes I would also want to sell the watches you own from this brand. So sorry you had to deal with this, but if you can't be left with a better impression I'm certain you'll be able to find something to replace each of these with.

[Fleetlord]

This was an infamous reply from Seiko to an AD in regards to a request to align chapter ring.

Actually, as the watch is one of the mass produced products, the printing misalignment on the dial and
the misalignment of the dial legs' positions are allowed to some extent; we set the appearance standard.
Meanwhile, we think it is difficult to adjust the misalignment by repair as it is due to a variety factor (e.g. dial print, dial legs).

Therefore, please kindly ask the customer to accept the appearance level by explaining the above and
the fact that you explained to the customer before the replacement that it could not be guaranteed that the appearance
would be improved dramatically as the watch was within standard originally.


We set the appearance standard….lol

What gets me is the lengths GS goes to market their meticulous craftsmanship and painstaking attention to detail. They even present a loupe at the boutique when looking at a watch to see how glorious it is in 10x..

But, when there is an obvious flaw in alignment that ruins all that finish work, it’s deemed acceptable and you should just live with it and appreciate the notion that they are good with it, so you should be too

[Andad]

Originally Posted by DonLee

that could be just from not shooting the pic straight on.

The pix I saw on the review was pretty well straight on and the stopwatch hand looks too close to the marker to be an angle issue.

[Crown & Shield]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

This was an infamous reply from Seiko to an AD in regards to a request to align chapter ring.

Actually, as the watch is one of the mass produced products, the printing misalignment on the dial and
the misalignment of the dial legs' positions are allowed to some extent; we set the appearance standard.
Meanwhile, we think it is difficult to adjust the misalignment by repair as it is due to a variety factor (e.g. dial print, dial legs).

Therefore, please kindly ask the customer to accept the appearance level by explaining the above and
the fact that you explained to the customer before the replacement that it could not be guaranteed that the appearance
would be improved dramatically as the watch was within standard originally.


We set the appearance standard….lol

What gets me is the lengths GS goes to market their meticulous craftsmanship and painstaking attention to detail. They even present a loupe at the boutique when looking at a watch to see how glorious it is in 10x..

But, when there is an obvious flaw in alignment that ruins all that finish work, it’s deemed acceptable and you should just live with it and appreciate the notion that they are good with it, so you should be too

I am a big advocate of their Spring Drive movements, but it really bothers me that even on their higher end models they state in the warranty that the movement may be replaced when servicing the watch. I think Tudor has a similar policy, but the price point is not the same.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Those are press fit hands aren’t they? I can’t understand why they wouldn’t realign them

That's a very good point.

[topslop1]

I'd go aftermarket at that point...

[Crown & Shield]

Originally Posted by topslop1

I'd go aftermarket at that point...

And risk voiding the warranty? Oh, wait…

[In-N-Out]

I'll update you guys with what happens....but I will definitely stop supporting this brand based on this experience anyway. might keep, might sell, but definitely won't buy any more GS. spent about $20k on this brand, which isn't that much compared to the price of Swiss watches, but it's way too much to spend on GS, a brand that doesn't give a shit about its clients

[scarlet knight]

Good to know. Poorly played by GS.

[1William]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

I'll update you guys with what happens....but I will definitely stop supporting this brand based on this experience anyway. might keep, might sell, but definitely won't buy any more GS. spent about $20k on this brand, which isn't that much compared to the price of Swiss watches, but it's way too much to spend on GS, a brand that doesn't give a shit about its clients

Please do. I have owned a lot of GS watches over the years but have lost my way with the marketing and endless releases. I have taken a pause until I figure it out. I also owned a Tentagraph but sold it based on price. Just not enough watch for the money for me. At 14k it should be very special and it was nice but just not great to me.

[In-N-Out]

Originally Posted by 1William

Please do. I have owned a lot of GS watches over the years but have lost my way with the marketing and endless releases. I have taken a pause until I figure it out. I also owned a Tentagraph but sold it based on price. Just not enough watch for the money for me. At 14k it should be very special and it was nice but just not great to me.

Still waiting on a response. Will definitely update you. How much did you sell your TENTAGRAPH for and where did you sell?

[Gebbeth]

The sad thing is that I also own an SBGJ239. It's an older High Beat GMT model, and this watch has been spectacular in terms of reliability, quality, and accuracy. It is one of, if not the most, accurate watch I have. About a +1spd deviation out of the box.

How they went from that, to my Night Birch, and deem that acceptable, I just don't know. So disappointed.

So much so, that I actually kind of discount, and do not want, a GS with their 9SA5 movement. I am very wary of that movement not only because of my personal experience with the Night Birch, but also because of the expected treatment of me should I have the audacity to ask that the watch run within advertised spec and not be accused of magnetizing the watch......right out of the box mind you.

[Gebbeth]

I mean, do these guys actually listen to ALL comments....not just the ones that verify their own delusions of themselves?

[2000-NJDEVILS]

To the OP -

I am the owner of a Panna Cotta Daytona Rolex circa late 2000 with exact same issue -
Rolex told me then that it is a non-event and just deal with it. 24 years later my $6075 list price Daytona is now worth over $50K (the dial is turning patina yellow) and the 1/2 of a millimeter that the chrono dial hand is off - actually adds value (that’s according to 3 different dealers on 47th street NYC).
Bottom line is either sell it, sue GS in District Court(over $5K claim but under $20K) or wear it and not let it stress you out>…..
Good Luck!!

[In-N-Out]

Originally Posted by 2000-NJDEVILS

To the OP -

I am the owner of a Panna Cotta Daytona Rolex circa late 2000 with exact same issue -
Rolex told me then that it is a non-event and just deal with it. 24 years later my $6075 list price Daytona is now worth over $50K (the dial is turning patina yellow) and the 1/2 of a millimeter that the chrono dial hand is off - actually adds value (that’s according to 3 different dealers on 47th street NYC).
Bottom line is either sell it, sue GS in District Court(over $5K claim but under $20K) or wear it and not let it stress you out>…..
Good Luck!!

lol. well it certainly worked out for you!

but this is GS we're talking about, not Rolex. I too drank the kool-aid for a little bit and considered GS to be on par with Rolex in terms of quality and value, but that is CLEARLY not the case. also I didn't buy GS thinking the value will go up. this brand clearly depreciates on day 1 and rarely goes up.

Grand Seiko NA is an absolute joke and treats their clients like trash. I may reconsider this brand again in 10-15 years, but holding a defective brand new watch for 5 months and then: a) not fixing it, b) implying I should have returned it within return policy period...is probably what you would expect from a TJ Maxx (or Tesla), but not from an aspiring luxury watch brand.

I think every collection still needs an "entry" level luxury watch, but I'll stick with Tudor, Cartier, or even gshock for that.

[2000-NJDEVILS]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

lol. well it certainly worked out for you!

but this is GS we're talking about, not Rolex. I too drank the kool-aid for a little bit and considered GS to be on par with Rolex in terms of quality and value, but that is CLEARLY not the case. also I didn't buy GS thinking the value will go up. this brand clearly depreciates on day 1 and rarely goes up.

Grand Seiko NA is an absolute joke and treats their clients like trash. I may reconsider this brand again in 10-15 years, but holding a defective brand new watch for 5 months and then: a) not fixing it, b) implying I should have returned it within return policy period...is probably what you would expect from a TJ Maxx (or Tesla), but not from an aspiring luxury watch brand.

I think every collection still needs an "entry" level luxury watch, but I'll stick with Tudor, Cartier, or even gshock for that.

I’m certainly not giving any legal advice here - but, BNIB watches almost always have a 2-3 year warranty - If you really feel strongly about GS not honoring this, you may want to find an attorney and jeweler (expert witness) and have a demand letter sent to GS USA stating your grievances - they can either do right by you (fix the watch) or let you sue them. If you choose to litigate, I would love to see you win and would like to hear how this shameful situation gets resolved amicably or adjudicated.
Good Luck!

[Gargamel]

I have a very slightly misaligned second hand on both a GS SD chrono and a Daytona. It doesn't bother me anymore and it's not worth a service.