Seek your view on new Biver 3-hander

[Ichiran]

Just released. Price is from CHF 75k to 121k. Movement is developed with Dubois Dépraz SA. JCB said the movement finishing is top notched. I can see sharp carvings in the photo below but will need more pics to have a better idea. Size is a sweet 39mm by 10mm.
How do you rate this watch?

https://watchesbysjx.com/2024/09/the...que.html?amp=1

[Ichiran]

A better angle of the movement. There is guilloche (operated by hand) and many sharp angles. I find the dial quite plain though.

[FrugalGreubel]

Looks nice but there’s just too many other interesting options in that price range.

[ChetBaker]

I agree. Not impressed by the movement. Looks like a dressed up version of something that can be had much cheaper.

[kunlun]

Obviously, it's the highest of haute horology, but then the question is how is speaks to a given collector.

They really went for it in the Debois-Depraz developed movement--not in any way a mark against it, many independents come up with their own movements and there is quiet word later that the watches don't work so well without some help. Making a movement that looks nice is easier by far than one that runs consistently well. I think this one should, given D-D's chops and using grand sonnerie style click wheel and rachet prawls seems unique and interesting.

As for the decoration, that is really something. The guilloché is something I like to see. Could even be too much, frankly. I like decoration, but super baroque decoration isn't for everyone. This is highest quality work, for somebody with a more is more mindset.

As for the sectorish dial, the pietersite is cool and the rose gold dial needs simplicity as the gold is enough interest by itself.
Thr platinum dials I am less convinced by.

Oh, and congrats to them on a very wearable size! The bracelet option has ceramic inserts for durability, well done there as well.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Obviously, it's the highest of haute horology, but then the question is how is speaks to a given collector.

They really went for it in the Debois-Depraz developed movement--not in any way a mark against it, many independents come up with their own movements and there is quiet word later that the watches don't work so well without some help. Making a movement that looks nice is easier by far than one that runs consistently well. I think this one should, given D-D's chops and using grand sonnerie style click wheel and rachet prawls seems unique and interesting.

As for the decoration, that is really something. The guilloché is something I like to see. Could even be too much, frankly. I like decoration, but super baroque decoration isn't for everyone. This is highest quality work, for somebody with a more is more mindset.

As for the sectorish dial, the pietersite is cool and the rose gold dial needs simplicity as the gold is enough interest by itself.
The platinum dials I am less convinced by.

Appreciate this well-thought-out review.

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Appreciate this well-thought-out review.

I am currently in Geneva and will be visiting the manufacture next week. I'll save my judgement till then but I really like the movement pics. The stone dials are cool too.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Bearxj86

I am currently in Geneva and will be visiting the manufacture next week. I'll save my judgement till then but I really like the movement pics. The stone dials are cool too.

I met JCB at an AD event in Singapore in June. He shared why he started this brand, and why retirement will never work for him and why he came back to horology. He shared his vision for Biver and his next few watches which I believe are going to be PC and chrono (with superlative hand-finishing). I almost could sense his passion as he spoke.

Your visit to the manufacture will even be better I reckon. Have fun and please share your take after your visit.

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

I agree. Not impressed by the movement. Looks like a dressed up version of something that can be had much cheaper.

this...

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Obviously, it's the highest of haute horology, but then the question is how is speaks to a given collector.

They really went for it in the Debois-Depraz developed movement--not in any way a mark against it, many independents come up with their own movements and there is quiet word later that the watches don't work so well without some help. Making a movement that looks nice is easier by far than one that runs consistently well. I think this one should, given D-D's chops and using grand sonnerie style click wheel and rachet prawls seems unique and interesting.

As for the decoration, that is really something. The guilloché is something I like to see. Could even be too much, frankly. I like decoration, but super baroque decoration isn't for everyone. This is highest quality work, for somebody with a more is more mindset.

As for the sectorish dial, the pietersite is cool and the rose gold dial needs simplicity as the gold is enough interest by itself.
Thr platinum dials I am less convinced by.

Oh, and congrats to them on a very wearable size! The bracelet option has ceramic inserts for durability, well done there as well.

biggest problem of independents in house movements

[WatchEater666]

I am a huge fan of JCB as an entrepreneur. His previous work was all really really cool. Wanted to love this brand from launch, but I feel like all the design including this new one is uninspired, and just feels super generic.

They look well made, but there's nothing else really going on.

[dchang81]

I've watched a fair number of biver videos, he usually mentions a brand needing an icon. From the front this looks like any variety of watches, nothing particularly unique imho. There are some cool looking dial variants but the base design doesn't stand out to me.

[subtona]

Good looking watch for 2k. A bit more for the precious metals.

At the asking price it’s a hard pass.

[ButtButt]

Movement looks nice. Front looks a bit plain and uninspiring. Don't like the name/logo.

[Easy E]

I don’t think it’s a 100g nice, but the Pietersite (blue) dial does look really good

[1William]

Not a fan. Nothing that makes the watch special and the price is radicicolous.

[JAJ2349]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I met JCB at an AD event in Singapore in June. He shared why he started this brand, and why retirement will never work for him and why he came back to horology. He shared his vision for Biver and his next few watches which I believe are going to be PC and chrono (with superlative hand-finishing). I almost could sense his passion as he spoke.

Your visit to the manufacture will even be better I reckon. Have fun and please share your take after your visit.

He’s a great salesman, one of the best I’ve ever met.

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by subtona

Good looking watch for 2k. A bit more for the precious metals.

At the asking price it’s a hard pass.

Ooh, I like this!

Simon Brett 3k!!

Remy Cools, 1.5k!

Rexhep Rexhepi, maybe a cool $1800

I mean, there are Chinese replica makers on reddit, you could go to.

[bobernet]

The movement is the draw. The rest is pretty pedestrian.

So, you’re paying for the decoration and finishing. I think it’s trying too hard. Sagrada Familia in a watch movement.

Pass for me.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Outrageously expensive. But that movement has some pretty finishing on the bridges

[subtona]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Ooh, I like this!

Simon Brett 3k!!

Remy Cools, 1.5k!

Rexhep Rexhepi, maybe a cool $1800

I mean, there are Chinese replica makers on reddit, you could go to.

Not sure how we got to Chinese replicas? Maybe because they would take a similar beating after purchase.

Rexhep can have my money.

Either way really no need to make it personal.

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by subtona

Not sure how we got to Chinese replicas? Maybe because they would take a similar beating after purchase.

Rexhep can have my money.

Either way really no need to make it personal.

I'm not sure how you took this personally. I respect you

However, your post was either a desire to restore pricing to 1880 levels, or you seriously felt that we should ignore everything great about high end horology. In that case, a replica is ideal for you. This is meant as a thoughtful suggestion.

To expand, you disregarded the custom and finely finished case.
Then we have the unique movement (are people thinking all micro-rotor movements are the same?) And the huge level of hand finishing, going to the gear wheels.
The hands are also hand finished, this is perhaps more clear in live pictures rather than mock-ups. The bracelet is very well designed and finished.

So yeah, if we ignore everything about the watch, yes 2k might be reasonable, and I think a replica would still be more expensive, while lacking all the things you've disregarded.

If you come away feeling attacked, or that I am some sort of fanboy for this watch, please know neither is true.

I do find it very difficult to understand thinking the Rexhep is acceptably price while this watch which displays equal or superior levels of watchmaking arts is close to worthless.

Personally, I don't feel I have to want something for myself to appreciate it and what goes into it. I guess I don't believe value is solely based on whether I like something (sorry, this is a discussion on art , value, and subjectivity).

[subtona]

Projecting a lot.

On the whole, I don’t find this watch appealing.
I don’t find bivers name on a watch more than a cash grab.

I don’t see future value in this watch.

And I certainly have never ever considered a Chinese replica. That implication or suggestion is uncalled for and unacceptable.

You are welcome to whatever opinion you like as we all are.

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by subtona

Projecting a lot.

On the whole, I don’t find this watch appealing.
I don’t find bivers name on a watch more than a cash grab.

I don’t see future value in this watch.

And I certainly have never ever considered a Chinese replica. That implication or suggestion is uncalled for and unacceptable.

You are welcome to whatever opinion you like as we all are.

Ah, well I hope we can meet over some JCBiver cheese and a good baguette, cheese paired with a fine wine, and understand each other better.

[Ichiran]

The finishing of the movement must have involved at least 100+ hours in my view, maybe more. Those sharp curved angles in the same plates as the guilloche are very time consuming to do. Maybe I'm the only one who think that CHF 75k is very reasonable for such level of finishing.

Thanks for expressing your views above. I'm contemplating the rose gold version and it is a difficult decision because I find the dial a little traditional (nothing wrong with that). The overall package is seductive though.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

The finishing of the movement must have involved at least 100+ hours in my view, maybe more. Those sharp curved angles in the same plates as the guilloche are very time consuming to do. Maybe I'm the only one who think that CHF 75k is very reasonable for such level of finishing.

Thanks for expressing your views above. I'm contemplating the rose gold version and it is a difficult decision because I find the dial a little traditional. The overall package is seductive though.

In an attempt to be a bit more thoughtful outside of my gut but honest reply,

I like the 39mm size, no date and the 3 hand simplicity, I don’t love the 10mm thickness though there appears to be a sporty (biver) element to the design. The rose appears to be most desirable to me in the photos. As far as balance (among the most important things imho) The hands are nice but maybe a bit small. The crown appears a bit big. Hard to definitively say from the pics. From the perspective of a daily wear, the dial has to nail it.

Many great points regarding the movement finishing as well as the general questions about small manufacture function. Finishing is nice but function is essential. The movement can only be seen when the watch is off the wrist… I don’t find myself looking at the movement as much as the dial and taking the watch off to share the amazing view with other collectors can at times be risky and in my experience fleeting.

Speaking with a long time sales manager just last week, we spoke about a small brand in the 90s that he recalls were flying out of the showcase… the watches frequently came back almost as fast for service.

As shown in his talking watches appearance, Biver owns my grail, the Patek 3670A (1 of 16); not finished as well but not the end all be all for me.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

A better angle of the movement. There is guilloche (operated by hand) and many sharp angles. I find the dial quite plain though.

Compared to the work on the movement decoration I understand your impression of the dial.

But one stands out to me...




That one shows Pride and Passion to match the Guilloché underneath.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

The finishing of the movement must have involved at least 100+ hours in my view, maybe more. Those sharp curved angles in the same plates as the guilloche are very time consuming to do. Maybe I'm the only one who think that CHF 75k is very reasonable for such level of finishing.

Thanks for expressing your views above. I'm contemplating the rose gold version and it is a difficult decision because I find the dial a little traditional (nothing wrong with that). The overall package is seductive though.

I’m not the best at putting things into words so my immediate response was also pretty brief. But I appreciate you posting about this release and feel like there’s more to add so I’m gonna ramble on for a bit.

I think you’re right about the finishing. It looks top tier and I really do like the movement. If I had unlimited funds I’d buy one but I don’t so I’m more picky when it comes to a watch in that price range. It’s not about the dial. I personally really like more boring/traditional dials. Hell i recently got the light blue Principia which many consider the most boring/plain of their dial options. But it made sense to me cause of the price, the brand and I just wanted a very under the radar piece of high horology that I could wear anywhere. I really do think these pieces are way better than the first offering we saw from Biver but it’s just that price point I can’t get past. Once you get into the 100K price range I just immediately focus on something more fun/interesting. That’s where I want a Simon Brette, DeBethune, Urwerk, MB&F, etc.

But all that being said. If you like it and you are thinking about getting one I say look into even more. If you got the money and it will make you happy then you can’t go wrong.

Please keep us updated. I’m always curious to see about people’s watch buying decisions, especially with newer brands.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by subtona

Speaking with a long time sales manager just last week, we spoke about a small brand in the 90s that he recalls were flying out of the showcase… the watches frequently came back almost as fast for service.

Thanks Gus, I understand your concerns. Dubois-Dépraz is quite known in the industry and JCB has been around for a long time. For me it really boils down to the aesthetics (if I would pick this watch to wear out of my watchbox) after the finishing clicks the box.

Originally Posted by 77T

Compared to the work on the movement decoration I understand your impression of the dial.

But one stands out to me...

The stone dial is a stunner of course but I would get this one if I decide to go ahead.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

Please keep us updated. I’m always curious to see about people’s watch buying decisions, especially with newer brands.

Thanks for chiming in. There is another watch I'm looking out for at the moment which makes this an unnecessarily tougher choice. That watch is beautifully finished (but not on par with Biver), around the same price ballpark, around the same size but with an interesting complication.