Is this the first red Submariner?

[highcotton]

Ran across this picture on the web and cannot say I have ever seen one like it. What are some opinions?

[Mark020]

6536/1 I think?

[Pete17]

Rare but not unique.
There's a few examples of early Subs with red text.

[mks4]

This is from VRF from 2 days and it's a pretty neat story and thread going over there. The Vintage experts are really going back and forth...fascinating!

[HL65]

Opinions....First off for me it is all wrong and not legitimate. It has WG surrounds which clearly make no sense. My guess is the red was painted on as well. Just my opinion and I would never think about buying such a watch. As for first red on dials: the best examples I have ever seen are Philipp Stahl's 6200 and also the very rare early 6542 with depth rating in red. Both extremely rare and amazing!!

And as for so called vintage experts nobody even notice WG surrounds.

[Vincent65]

Sorry, but I don't see any WG surrounds.

And I'm not a 'so-called vintage expert', just for the record

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

Sorry, but I don't see any WG surrounds.

And I'm not a 'so-called vintage expert', just for the record

Well I do so either my computer is really bad or my eyes are!

Perhaps from the photo it looks that way?? Look at silver ring around each lume. Just my opinion and won't be first time I was wrong.

[Vincent65]

Yes, I can see the rings; a lot of these older gilt dials have a pre-printed circle and then the lume dot is applied, like a dome, on top. I've seen many with a circle around the lume plot.

[Vincent65]

Maybe it was re-lumed, also...

[HL65]

I understand that but to me I see silver circles which look different. Again just my opinion and certainly as I said wouldn't be first time I was wrong!

**Blowing up in my iPad I still see silver ring around all lume as well as the area underneath/circle where lume applied.

[dysondiver]

connor ,,,, its needing a new battery too ,,,, well spotted

[cruvon]

Rare or not, is not in a condition I would be proud to wear!

[gpfps]

The marks have gold surounds no doubt, doesn't jive with red text !

[Mark020]

It does not have surrounds.

[HL65]

Again I see separate ring on outside of all lume markers separate from circle underneath. Maybe optical illusion but still see it. Nonetheless I don't care for the dial myself.

[Lgear080]

I immediately thought the red text was added after the fact
Also. Hmmmmm.

[azguy]

looks like it has WG surrounds to me too, something is wrong with that watch

[springer]

Under magnification, the plot is painted underneath, and while it appears to be a metal ring, it is not in my opinion. The reflection at the top of the plot makes it appear to be a metal ring.

The internet experts will all have an opinion on its peculiarities!

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Again I see separate ring on outside of all lume markers separate from circle underneath. Maybe optical illusion but still see it. Nonetheless I don't care for the dial myself.

You see it but I don't think it is white gold markers, not uniform enough and likely hand done. Also 3/9/12 don't have it. Funny how a nice clear photo of the dial, serials, ref, and movement would (likely) put much of the controversy to bed - but what fun would that be

Originally Posted by springer

Under magnification, the plot is painted underneath, and while it appears to be a metal ring, it is not in my opinion. The reflection at the top of the plot makes it appear to be a metal ring.

The internet experts will all have an opinion on its peculiarities!

Shadows in other places - just not uniform in application. May simply be where the moldpatina hasn't grown ;)

[highcotton]

Here is the story that goes with the post.

"This watch belongs to an 87 year old neighbor and he has owned this watch as long as he can remember. At least 45 years. He purchased this watch when he was in the military, though he cant exactly remember when or where he purchased it. It appears old age symptoms (Dementia) have set in."

This was lifted from another forum and I don't really know the rules about that kind of stuff. I just thought it was interesting. I can remove the post if this is against the rules.

[bplein]

If you find that post, you'll see other pictures from other angles. While they are less clear, they show the "WG surround" look as well.

Strange.

[scottb2]

I am with ken on this one - the lume looks weird any way you slice it

if it were a true example I would gladly want to have it - I think the condition is ok for a watch that old

best

SB

[marcello pisani]

pictures seen I can only say :
1) odd dial in ugly conditions with relumed indexes ( it could be even reprinted as from these pics it's impossible to be sure of anything )
2) 5508 back ( at least we hope so .... LOOLL )
3) " unbekannt " case and reference numbers
4) " unbekannt " movement , backinside and case
in Rome we have a sentence that says : < ma de che stamo a parlà ?????? >
for the translation please check :
http://www.romanesco.it/ingleseromanesco.asp

[Pete17]

No WG on that one.
Just the edges of the plots underneath the lume.

Better pics would help though....

[HL65]

Originally Posted by marcello pisani

pictures seen I can only say :
1) odd dial in ugly conditions with relumed indexes ( it could be even reprinted as from these pics it's impossible to be sure of anything )
2) 5508 back ( at least we hope so .... LOOLL )
3) " unbekannt " case and reference numbers
4) " unbekannt " movement , backinside and case
in Rome we have a sentence that says : < ma de che stamo a parlà ?????? >
for the translation please check :
http://www.romanesco.it/ingleseromanesco.asp

And in US cousin Marci we say " If it looks like and smells like it is

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Pete17

No WG on that one.
Just the edges of the plots underneath the lume.

Better pics would help though....

Also don't agree as I see the edges of plots underneath and there is still a separate ring around lume. Very bad relume perhaps but messed up and not right for me whatever it is. Yes better pics would clearly help but still not help this watch.

[scottb2]

there is also a saying about a duck - they all apply

[linesiders]

In Germany we Americans had a saying:

UpGefucht - I won't translate

[Pete17]

LOL
another old favourite is that "you can't polish a turd."

edit. just saw the VRF thread. The original post smells a bit...

Cheers

[DCheeta]

Maybe my eyes are bad too, but I don't see how those could be anything other than wg surrounds. The highlight on one edge with a shadow on the opposing edge indicates a raised surface. To me. Who knows.