Eliminate the Grey Market

[H25B]

Pointless thread alert... but whatever.

Allow ADs to set prices wherever they want. All of a sudden there's no "grey market" and just "a market.."

Suddenly we find out what these things are truly worth.

[77T]

Posting ahead of 1st cup of coffee…but don’t see how it fixes the supply problem.

Also, the “mark to market” pricing would just raise secondary market prices.

For example:
If a buyer got a Platona at $120K+Tax, ($130K) then sells it to a dealer with a minor uplift to $140K and dealer wants a minimum markup to $170K, then the price soars due to demand without new supply.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[JC316]

This is not the way.

[rambo99]

lol.

[Amateur]

Agreed it could work - prices can't infinitely go up for all watches across all ranges...

[Tikandtokalot]

That loud noise is your alarm clock.

[joejet]

I know some brands are or are planning to do this (AP maybe) and some are taking the product only in-house (JP Journe) but the first is not a good business practice there will be complaints about selling to people for different prices.

The FP Journe route might work for them but Rolex is so much bigger I don’t think they want that hassle and if the market does slow down and watches do come back into stock again Rolex will have to sit on a lot of inventory rather than each AD sitting on some each. Make a big difference to cash flow.

[H25B]

Originally Posted by joejet

I know some brands are or are planning to do this (AP maybe) and some are taking the product only in-house (JP Journe) but the first is not a good business practice there will be complaints about selling to people for different prices.

The FP Journe route might work for them but Rolex is so much bigger I don’t think they want that hassle and if the market does slow down and watches do come back into stock again Rolex will have to sit on a lot of inventory rather than each AD sitting on some each. Make a big difference to cash flow.

My grandfather was an antique dealer his entire life. He had a long list of wealthy and some famous clients. Why? Because he had stuff they couldn't get anywhere else. There were no prices on anything in his warehouses, just a coded tag so he could tell what he had paid for the piece.

Damn right, some people paid more than another person would've. Why sell something for $100 when they'd pay $1,000. It's business.

[rmwill]

Great way to destroy the brand if/when demand falls. 40% at Jomashop just like Omega.

[samson66]

Sort of already happening in stores that sell pre-owned along side new watches. Sell a Daytona to a "customer" and buy it back and sell it pre-owned for 3x the cost.

[JRell]

I would not buy grey market, but they only help me. I get my watches through my AD and they sell for 2 to 3 times more through greys. So they help raise their value. If people choose to pay these crazy prices, thank you!

[TheVTCGuy]

Yeah, well, I don’t like the idea. The reason being because I have a great relationship with an AD, so am lucky enough to get pieces at MSRP. If it was the wild wild west of pricing, I am sure I would have to pay more. Maybe not as much as the next guy, but in the current state of the market more then MSRP.

[dpt.calvin]

Here we go again.

[WalterW]

Pointless indeed

[H25B]

Originally Posted by WalterW

Pointless indeed

Don’t wanna be the one to break the news, but about 70% of this part of the forum is pointless.

[alllexandru]

has been beaten to death this....

how they can adjust prices to AD?
saying a date sub now is grey 15k
official rrp is 8k
what if 13k new rrp price to AD is considered too much for the normal buyer? How do you deal with that? Making discount depending on AD ? Then it will decrease the image leading devaluation of the brand

You cannot apply such policy on the fly it will transform a bad situation into worse.

[paxjedi]

Originally Posted by H25B

Pointless thread alert... but whatever.

Allow ADs to set prices wherever they want. All of a sudden there's no "grey market" and just "a market.."

Suddenly we find out what these things are truly worth.

That! ^


.

[258Pearl]

100% of all new Rolex watches are sold at MSRP via an AD.

Everyone buying the piece for the first time pays MSRP.

Now.... if we only knew what % of those watches were sold to Used Watch Dealers (I don't like calling them "Grays or Greys" because they are not "Gray Markets")

I think if we only knew how many new owners actually kept the watches for themselves vs how many get resold, that could tell us a lot.

I'm guessing most people pay MSRP and keep them, and a small percent sell to the pre-owned market.

It's the folks that can't or don't want to wait, who pay they hefty mark up. Some of these folks paying the premium just do not want to bother with the AD relationship and the wait. They want it for themselves, and they want it now. Understandable.

Others are pure speculators who have no intention of ever keeping and are only out for the price appreciation/investment value.

Hard if not impossible to quantify, but interesting to ponder.

[buffetwarren]

Economic downturn will squeeze the grey market. Interest rate hikes and geopolitical factors such as Russia Ukraine issue will also have an impact. Prices can’t skyrocket forever.

[macrowatch]

But we already know what they are worth???

[WalterW]

Originally Posted by H25B

Don’t wanna be the one to break the news, but about 70% of this part of the forum is pointless.

I disagree. I’ve gained so much knowledge from this forum and have been guided in the right direction numerous occasions by members. Also I’ve met lots of awesome dealers in the for sale section. But yes there are utterly pointless people in this world for sure

[ALF61]

This thread’s title is as good as Rolex prohibiting owners from selling their watches. Totally out of order.

[Kelvin Knight]

The minute the advantageous disparity between retail price (msrp) and secondary market price disappears, so goes the demand for these pieces…

The smart brains within these brands (Rolex, AP, PP etc…) will continue to balance and foster this disparity for as long as they can.

[watchwatcher]

Well, technically, you're not eliminating the gray market. Just moving a chunk of it inside the doors of the AD.

And, as I think about the resulting scenarios which would develop from that, I don't see much changing for the average, non-whale customer.

[hambone1983]

Originally Posted by H25B

Pointless thread alert... but whatever.

Allow ADs to set prices wherever they want. All of a sudden there's no "grey market" and just "a market.."

Suddenly we find out what these things are truly worth.

the grey market IS the market, so we already know what they fetch in the world.

I think it would be truly awful to turn every AD into a used car lot where after shaking hands with a greasy sales-liar you have to count your rings and fingers to make sure you still have them

[ArtNouveau]

My fair price for a new Rolex is MSRP. If I had to go haggle with the AD for them I wouldn’t be buying any more.

[thenewrick]

I tend to be more of a free market capitalist so I’d probably be okay with this. Car dealerships are in a similar situation where they pay a lot of money to be an authorized dealer and have lots of requirements to be one and they get to set their own prices “market adjustment” “sales discounts”.

When I don’t like is seeing car dealerships having a strong lobbying effort to disallow direct sales models like Tesla.

So there needs to be a balance to allow for free market to decide and allow vendors to have some control over their own decisions but then restrict their ability to control competitors.

But in general, I’d be okay with ADs selling new stock at whatever price they want. I’d also be more than okay with Rolex having a direct sales method that coincided with this new policy.

If Rolex had an online marketplace where you could just order references at their msrp it would directly compete with ADs and drive costs down.

So it’s a sticky situation. ADs make their money selling not a Rolex. So they don’t want other ADs undercutting them and they don’t want Rolex having a direct sales process.

Not sure what the best solution for all parties would be.

Without a doubt the best solution for collectors who want to buy a Rolex is direct sales online with an actual digital waitlist(reservation). But of course that puts all ADs out of business.

Right now everyone is happy except for collectors who can’t get novelties at msrp and that’s probably not a big concern to anyone else in the entire marketplace.

Tough cookies.

There’s some references I’d like at msrp but I’m also totally okay not getting them. There’s always other toys to spend my toy money on. Just got a new kickass speaker set up for my home theater. :D

Blessed to not have FOMO. Sounds painful.

If you have no Rolexes and really feel like you’re missing out you could always buy a used piece for reasonable money. A Datejust 36 or DJ II from 1995-2010 is still a great watch that’ll last a lifetime.

Enjoy what you’ve got and enjoy the hunt and shake off that FOMO it’s toxic

[daveswordfish]

Rolex is positioned very carefully in the luxury watch segment. Their products are priced (MSRP/RRP) a bit higher than the brands with whom they compete, and rightfully so. What makes folks think Rolex wants Subs to sell for $18k and Daytonas to sell at $45k? They don’t. Not sustainable, and repositions Rolex into an entirely different segment where they do not want to play. They also don’t want fluctuating prices at dealers, as there will be times prices decline, a big no-no for luxury brands.

Rolex will keep their core strategy and allow the secondary market to run its course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VegasBaby]

Originally Posted by H25B

Pointless thread alert... but whatever.

Allow ADs to set prices wherever they want. All of a sudden there's no "grey market" and just "a market.."

Suddenly we find out what these things are truly worth.

The Grey Market is the Market if you can't buy at Retail Price.

[Gab27]

ADs can already do this if they wish, just not as directly as increasing the sticker price on the specific Rolex watch. For that matter, many also sell used, which they charge well above MSRP for.