Submariners 116610 and 114060 exactly the same except the date feature?

[El Cascarrabias]

I'm sharing an excellent post "Tools" (Larry) posted almost ten years ago regarding the differences between the Submariners 16610 and 14060. Measurable differences such that parts are not interchangeable.

I realize the movement and crystal are different in the ceramic models. My question is: Are there measurable differences between the ceramic 116610 and 114060 (case, bezel, etc)?

Here's Larry's post:

Originally Posted by Tools

Most neophytes to Rolex see the Sub and the Sub Date and just assume that one has a date, the other doesn't, and that's the difference..

Of course, this is not true. They are completely different watches..

Here is a bit of trivia to amaze your friends:

......................... Sub................. Sub Date

Case Size ........ 39.5mm................ 39.5mm

Case inc Crown . 43.50mm..............43.60mm (difference could be possible to a higher seated tube)

Bezel Diameter... 39.5mm ...............40.00mm

Thickness.......... 12.20mm ..............12.55mm (Sub Date middle case is thicker as is the bezel)

Crystal Diameter..29mm ...................30mm

Visible Dial..........25.5mm..................26.5mm

Lugs.................Holes..................No Holes (since ~2001)

Weight ............ 127 grams .............. 135 grams

Hand length.....................same.......

Almost nothing on these watches interchanges except the hands and Triplock Crown... Even the bezel inserts are different to fit the different size bezels, and they use different (although interchangeable until SEL's) bracelets.... Since they do use the same hands, it gives an illusion that they are longer because of the smaller dial..they extend into the markers more..

Attachment 136354

Here you can clearly see that the Bezel on the 16610 is thicker than the 14060 by comparing the undercut beneath the bezel grip surface:
Attachment 136353

Another difference is the machined ledge on the backside of the 16610 (right) for the fitment of an SEL bracelet. The 14060 does not have suich a lip or ledge and an SEL bracelet cannot be fitted to this model without modification..

Attachment 136355

Since these watches are made independently, and since they have continued on with the legacy of the original (nostalgic) Sub in the 14060M; I believe it will continue in production..

So, does anyone have an answer? Larry?

[seattlewatch]

I’m glad you kicked this off b/c I’ve always wondered why no one seems to talk about this. Here’s a pic I took at The Hour Glass in Singapore in 2014 when making the decision between the two. To me, the size difference was really *significant* – just look at the case height difference between the two. Part of this may be exaggerated by the angle of my picture, but there’s still definitely a difference.

On my wrist, I really noticed the difference – so I went with the no date. They’re obviously both amazing options, but for me personally, the clean look of the ND was hard to beat, and looking at it never gets old. I have the cyclops on my polar 16570, and love that one too, so I don’t think you can go wrong if deciding between the two.

Hope this picture helps, so much for ever getting to see them side-by-side in a store again anytime soon. In 2014 in singapore, they had everything in stock (hulk, batman, you name it), and they’d throw in a 10% discount without you even asking for it. Now I’m on a never-ending waitlist for the two pieces I want…

Anyone else know the actual size difference in mm’s?

[seattlewatch]

I’m glad you kicked this off b/c I’ve always wondered why no one seems to talk about this. Here’s a pic I took at The Hour Glass in Singapore in 2014 when making the decision between the two. To me, the size difference was really *significant* – just look at the case height difference between the two. Part of this may be exaggerated by the angle of my picture, but there’s still definitely a difference.

On my wrist, I really noticed the difference – so I went with the no date. They’re obviously both amazing options, but for me personally, the clean look of the ND was hard to beat, and looking at it never gets old. I have the cyclops on my polar 16570, and love that one too, so I don’t think you can go wrong if deciding between the two.

Hope this picture helps, so much for ever getting to see them side-by-side in a store again anytime soon. In 2014 in singapore, they had everything in stock (hulk, batman, you name it), and they’d throw in a 10% discount without you even asking for it. Now I’m on a never-ending waitlist for the two pieces I want…

Anyone else know the actual size difference in mm’s?