5510 Explorer dial Australian Navy

[RANCDdiver]

I’m looking for information about the Submariner 5510s issued to the Royal Australian Navy (RAN), the only 5510s fitted with the Explorer dial.

Sotheby’s auctioned one in December 2023 and according to them, unspecified scholarship had determined that the hammered fixed bars on it were to A10 specification. Can anyone clarify that for me? I did ask Sotheby’s but they didn’t respond and there’s nothing on the internet about it which I can find. What is A10 spec?

https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auct...ial-submariner

I’m also aware of the example previously sold by Wind Vintage. But as declared, it had already been unsympathetically restored so can’t be completely relied on when trying to determine exactly what the original specification was.

https://www.windvintage.com/rolex-su...alian-military

Greg Petronzi of True Patina, who serviced the very ‘weathered’ Sotheby’s RAN 5510, reckons just five of these watches survive. So apart from the above, does anyone own one of the other 3, now or in past? Or know someone who does/has? PM me if you'd prefer to discuss it privately.

I’m confident the real experts are here, so any information or thoughts about these super rare Rolex milsubs would be gratefully received.

[jedly1]

The Sotheby's watch was my old watch and fairly well known in military watch circles . Hammer twisted my arm out of it as he decided I wasn't Australian enough ��*♂️... it now lives in USA... feel free to drop me a PM .

Two of the other known watches were bought over the counter in melbourne a long time ago , one went to watches in Rome , one direct to Hong Kong where they both live in world class collections

The James Dowling watch I believe is still in a collection in London . All three of those watches are with fairly private collectors who don't really post their stuff on the internet .

[jedly1]

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/g1d...ibextid=WC7FNe

[RANCDdiver]

Thanks so much for the info.

Not Australian enough! That's funny. What's he got against Melbourne? I'm a Sydney boy myself and while Bondi and Manly are good, Bells Beach trumps them every time.

'Military watch circles' are precisely the guys I'm trying to connect with. But I do understand the reasons why they play their cards very close to their chests. Any thoughts on those A10 spec bars?

[interestedwatcher]

Ex ADF here - had a discussion with a gent on ANZAC day who was in his 80s (but very sharp), he was wearing a modern explorer - anyway, he told me about being in the RAE in the 1950s and 1960s, and he was issue a 3 - 6- 9 submariner. He traded it to a well known collector in Perth who I also know - for the explorer he was wearing.

The fact that he mentioned the collector by name he traded it to (without me prompting) has me fairly confident the story was genuine. So I imagine a few more of these watches will be floating around retirement villages.

[RANCDdiver]

Interestedwatcher, thanks for your input and your service.

The first RAN diving manual is pretty clear about who got what. Only clearance divers got a Rolex and in early 1962, the team was just 51 strong of all ranks. Standard RAN divers got a Droz.

What's really interesting is the Royal Australian Engineers (RAE) connection with the exchanged watch you saw on ANZAC day. As some early 5513 Subs also came with the Explorer dial. When the UK MOD went back to Rolex from Omega in the 1970's with the 5513/5517 UK Milsubs, 100 of the approximately 1500 watches eventually supplied went to the UK Royal Engineers. Most went to the navy, some also to helicopter pilots on air/sea resue. But specialist Royal Engineer sappers who were qualified divers, whose task presumably was to blow the foundations out of all the major European bridges if the Cold War kicked off, were likely issued these watches.

Would love to know more about the watch you're talking about. Reference number and case back engravings, if they've survived, would be the proof of the pudding. You know who has it now, so please PM me with a name to chase up. He's free to to say no. I'm just trying to put the record straight about Australian military watches, which I think has been overshadowed by the UK MOD watches.

[jedly1]

There were some 5513 369 SAAS ( supposedly ) watches too , that mostly all stem back to Perth bases and later Perth auction disposal , could equally be RAE I bet .

[RANCDdiver]

Thanks Jed,
From a recognised milsub expert like you, the possible existance of 5513s with Explorer dials issued to the SAAS and maybe RAE sappers too, is significant new information.

Nothing about that on the internet so far, confirming my thoughts that not enough is widely known about Australian military watches.

[one80]

Originally Posted by jedly1

There were some 5513 369 SAAS ( supposedly ) watches too , that mostly all stem back to Perth bases and later Perth auction disposal , could equally be RAE I bet .

Interesting.
Do you know what type of 369 dials they were? e.g small logo like the 5510 dials?

[jedly1]

Originally Posted by one80

Interesting.
Do you know what type of 369 dials they were? e.g small logo like the 5510 dials?

5513 not big crowns , so one of the 7 recognised versions of 369 dial

There used to be some stuff posted online about them in public forums but most of this was removed from public view to combat fakers .

For many years most high level discussions were not actually conducted in public forums , there were invitation only private forums , but like most forums these have died a death now .

20 years ago a lot of us realised that every time you held a big debate , or discussed the nuance or 'tell' of a fake , in the public arena ... 6 mths later the next generation of fake appeared with that nuance corrected and such conversations were taken private .

[RANCDdiver]

So it seems the first rule of milsub club is, don't talk about milsubs. Which I absolutely undertsand, as fakers abound.

https://perezcope.com/2021/04/13/pla...rum-hong-kong/

Many thanks to Jedly1 though, a recognised expert who's stepped up and shared his knowledgable insights about these super rare watches here. More to me privately, as the second rule of the milsub club is that proof of ownership of one is what really gets you in the conversation.