Kurono Tokyo Watches

[thesingularity7]

Anyone here own one of these? I would love to hear your opinion on these watches.

Their latest watch "Anniversary Green: Mori" went on sale today to commemorate their 1 year anniversary I believe. It was scheduled to be a 50 piece limited edition.

The release had some hiccups and a lot of people were upset because their promise of a "5 minute" hold didn't actually work. So they decided to open up orders again and allow people to purchase it again. It ended up not being a 50 piece limited edition anymore, but they offered full refunds to those unhappy with the decision. I've been following a lot of these 'small batch' releases and there's always hiccups and unhappy customers, but I'm quite impressed by the way they handled the situation.

I'm not a big fan of green, but I'm likely going to pick up whatever they offer next.

The 'Mori' that just released:




Their previous Chronograph:


Link to the Instagram where the drama unfolded: https://www.instagram.com/p/CAfjsF1nr2o/

[scarlet knight]

I was following this sale. I was not in love with the green face enough to compete for it. I really rather just be able to buy a watch rather than compete for a limited edition.

[christianj]

I was following the upcoming sale as well but also wasn't in love with the green dial. Clearly others were since they sold out very quickly.

[_speedmaster_]

I got the copper Reiwa, love it. A ton of watch for the money.
Slightly more detailed thoughts and some pics in this incoming thread I started.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=736712

[Collector2019]

I missed the previous release with copper dial. So jumped on the ship this time and glad I did. The green dial looks very vibrant and lively.

The way they handled the situation after they failed to fulfill their 5 mins hold period is very decisive and done swiftly.

I was lucky and managed to get one out of the first 50 pieces release but also was happy to see them reopening the door for their unsatisfied customers. It made me appreciate the brand and know that they care about their clients.


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[scarlet knight]

It looked like they charged a lot more on the second round. 1700 vs. 2400, roughly. Am I correct?

[KBM]

Not the right dia color for me as well, but love the design. Congrats to those who scooped one!

[thesingularity7]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I got the copper Reiwa, love it. A ton of watch for the money.
Slightly more detailed thoughts and some pics in this incoming thread I started.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=736712

Thanks, I'll give it a read. The copper Reiwa is a gorgeous piece. Congratulations!

Originally Posted by Collector2019

I missed the previous release with copper dial. So jumped on the ship this time and glad I did. The green dial looks very vibrant and lively.

The way they handled the situation after they failed to fulfill their 5 mins hold period is very decisive and done swiftly.

I was lucky and managed to get one out of the first 50 pieces release but also was happy to see them reopening the door for their unsatisfied customers. It made me appreciate the brand and know that they care about their clients.


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Congratulations! Be sure to post pictures once you get it.

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

It looked like they charged a lot more on the second round. 1700 vs. 2400, roughly. Am I correct?

I didn't know this, but it seems unlikely that they would do this.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

It looked like they charged a lot more on the second round. 1700 vs. 2400, roughly. Am I correct?

Correct. The first go around had a less complicated dial and therefore a slightly lower price.

[scarlet knight]

I read carefully. I am a semi-retired lawyer.

[Collector2019]

Maybe you confused SGD to USD?

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

I read carefully. I am a semi-retired lawyer.

[Collector2019]

Originally Posted by thesingularity7

Thanks, I'll give it a read. The copper Reiwa is a gorgeous piece. Congratulations!




Congratulations! Be sure to post pictures once you get it.



I didn't know this, but it seems unlikely that they would do this.

I’ll - hopefully it will arrive sometime this June


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[scarlet knight]

For those who obtained one, kudos on your victory! Enjoy the watch and let us know how you like it!


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[Pongster]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

I read carefully. I am a semi-retired lawyer.

I am a semi retired lawyer as well. But i dont read carefully.

Am debating whether to hunt for a Tsunami or settle for a Kurono.

[Swaye]

delete

[thesingularity7]

Originally Posted by Swaye

I got one of the green dials yesterday, but I have very mixed emotions. They had a major screw up with the check out process, which they were quite apologetic for and I appreciated it. However, when they wrote me they expressed a small hold back for those who had been affected, and never explained that they were upping the number of watches from 50 to 286. That is a HUGE jump. So, I still believed I was buying an LE of 50 (perhaps confusion on my part but easily confused based off the e-mail I read), but I was really buying a second batch of watches running to nearly 300.

Independent of whether I like the watch or not that seems unethical to me. All the pre-sale literature said 50 watches. After you buy it it becomes clear they have upped it to 286 so everyone who wanted one got one, which is great, but it is no longer limited. Also just found out the shipping date in longer June, but instead Sept-Oct. And all this was reported after the fact. They have in fact offered refunds, so that is good. I am deciding now if I stick with it or just divest of the whole thing.

They have been pleasant to deal with during my interactions, which I appreciate, but the whole thing has been a bungle at this point.

That is unfortunate regarding the altered delivery dates. This fact alone would make me quite disappointed.

In their defense regarding the 280 watches, after the debacle they did post saying that they would be opening orders again and there would be no limit on the number of pieces that could be ordered (except the limit of one per person). They also mentioned the total number of people that had expressed interest (it was in the 1000s), so I suspected at least 200-300 new orders. Maybe they weren't clear about this with folks that had ordered the first 50, but they did mention it all over their social media prior to the second wave of orders.

They did offer full refunds (and a fifty on top for the trouble ) to those in the first 50 that were not happy with this situation, so I think they handled it as best as they could. I've seen plenty of other brands do much worse in similar situations.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by thesingularity7

That is unfortunate regarding the altered delivery dates. This fact alone would make me quite disappointed.

In their defense regarding the 280 watches, after the debacle they did post saying that they would be opening orders again and there would be no limit on the number of pieces that could be ordered (except the limit of one per person). They also mentioned the total number of people that had expressed interest (it was in the 1000s), so I suspected at least 200-300 new orders. Maybe they weren't clear about this with folks that had ordered the first 50, but they did mention it all over their social media prior to the second wave of orders.

They did offer full refunds (and a fifty on top for the trouble ) to those in the first 50 that were not happy with this situation, so I think they handled it as best as they could. I've seen plenty of other brands do much worse in similar situations.

I was deleting my post to not besmirch the brand or diminish the watch, but you quoted it so whatever. In some respects they handled it well, but making a LE watch non-LE, without clearly explaining it or the altered delivery dates was pretty ham fisted at a minimum. I will grant they were trying to make the best of a bad situation, but a bad situation that they caused. I don't dislike the brand or the watch. I still may take delivery of mine, but really undecided at this point.

I can see what they were trying to do by opening it up, but in the act of trying to make amends, they made an LE a non-LE and sort of diminished the overall product. Many will disagree with me, and that's fine, but part of what made these so special to me is the fact that very few were made.

edit: I don't follow social media so had no idea they were detailing any of this. Please be aware I had written them after the 5 minute cart issue directly, and when they responded it was to my e-mail, and they used my name in the response. Therefore, I thought this was an e-mail to me and only me. I had no idea during all of this that a form letter was going out to everyone. So, I believed, based on this personalized e-mail response to my e-mail that they were suggesting they had held a few back, and were opening it up to me and select others who had been caught up in the checkout issue. I had zero idea in the moment that this was a form letter opening it up to everyone to just order away. So yeah, probably a bit of this was just unique circumstances, and all of this happened in an hour so there wasn't much time to digest. Not mad at the brand or anything, just an unfortunate set of circumstances, and maybe more specifically an unfortunate set of circumstances for me. So, I will mull it over this weekend and think about the watch, and if I still want it or not. Stuff like this happens, and I do agree they have tried to mitigate the issue, but in doing so they created another issue (no longer a real LE from a micro brand).

[Pongster]

If a watch is purely for one’s enjoyment, i actually dont see a difference between LE and non LE.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Pongster

If a watch is purely for one’s enjoyment, i actually dont see a difference between LE and non LE.

Many won't.

[thesingularity7]

Originally Posted by Swaye

I was deleting my post to not besmirch the brand or diminish the watch, but you quoted it so whatever. In some respects they handled it well, but making a LE watch non-LE, without clearly explaining it or the altered delivery dates was pretty ham fisted at a minimum. I will grant they were trying to make the best of a bad situation, but a bad situation that they caused. I don't dislike the brand or the watch. I still may take delivery of mine, but really undecided at this point.

I can see what they were trying to do by opening it up, but in the act of trying to make amends, they made an LE a non-LE and sort of diminished the overall product. Many will disagree with me, and that's fine, but part of what made these so special to me is the fact that very few were made.

edit: I don't follow social media so had no idea they were detailing any of this. Please be aware I had written them after the 5 minute cart issue directly, and when they responded it was to my e-mail, and they used my name in the response. Therefore, I thought this was an e-mail to me and only me. I had no idea during all of this that a form letter was going out to everyone. So, I believed, based on this personalized e-mail response to my e-mail that they were suggesting they had held a few back, and were opening it up to me and select others who had been caught up in the checkout issue. I had zero idea in the moment that this was a form letter opening it up to everyone to just order away. So yeah, probably a bit of this was just unique circumstances, and all of this happened in an hour so there wasn't much time to digest. Not mad at the brand or anything, just an unfortunate set of circumstances, and maybe more specifically an unfortunate set of circumstances for me. So, I will mull it over this weekend and think about the watch, and if I still want it or not. Stuff like this happens, and I do agree they have tried to mitigate the issue, but in doing so they created another issue (no longer a real LE from a micro brand).

I see your point and I can definitely understand the frustration. If it makes you feel any better, I believe the overall interest in the watch was ~2000 customers, out of which only 280 got the watch. So it is still pretty limited - not as limited, but still limited. I doubt any more of these watches will be ever made, and I don't think this will alter the resale value in anyway so I just see this as a very small and exclusive community of watch collectors just got a smidge larger.

I'm quoting their latest Instagram post below, and it appears that only the additionally released pieces will have the altered shipping dates. Unfortunate, but still reasonable in my opinion. Either way, I hope that if and when you do get your watch, you are still able to enjoy it, because it is a beautiful watch!

In the second batch's 10 minute window, a total of 241 successful orders were put through. An additional 695 pending orders did not meet the 10 minute cut-off, and we will not be able to process those. This brings the total number of orders for Kurono Anniversary Green to be 286 watches, including those that have requested order cancellations.
Since Chrono 1, from your feedback, we have endeavoured to correct issues with the ordering system and to stem out those that have been reselling Kurono at up to 5x its retail price on Chrono24/eBay/etc. We put in place code to limit order quantities to 1, introduced customer accounts so that only genuine customers and not automated bots purchased, went through line by line to weed out ghost accounts, and finally, relied on the default shopping cart system of a 5 minute hold during checkout. We were excited, and communicated this to you in the hope it would really improve things, and have tips on how to expedite checkout payment. Unfortunately, we were failed by the 5 minute checkout hold. And we had to fall on the sword on that.

We did not like to expand our edition size, as this would cause disruption to future launches, future production, and future deliveries. But we had to. Irregardless, we hope that you will not think of this episode detrimentally and continue to allow us to grow as we gain more expertise over time.
Nevertheless, for the initial 50 that have purchased, deliveries will remain in June. Those from the first batch of 50 that have requested to cancel, will be immediately refunded, and will give up their allocation to the next in line from the second batch. ALL of the first 50 will be given US$50 token of apology, whether or not they keep their orders or cancel. We expect fulfillment of the second batch in the September/October timeframe.

We are very thankful that the final edition size has remained below 300. We have learnt a lot from this episode, and we ask for your leave for causing you any discomfort initially. But Kurono is definitely listening to you, and we ask for your continued patience and support.

[Pongster]

^ i agree. still limited. And congrats to the enthusiasts who successfully ordered.

Personally, am saddened that for the three launches of kurono, i only learned about them in watch fora. When sold out already. How do you guys know beforehand?

Side note: “Irregardless” reminds me of a former colleague. Oh well, clearly English is not the brand’s first language. Unlike my former colleague.

[scarlet knight]

Originally Posted by Pongster

^ i agree. still limited. And congrats to the enthusiasts who successfully ordered.

Personally, am saddened that for the three launches of kurono, i only learned about them in watch fora. When sold out already. How do you guys know beforehand?

Side note: “Irregardless” reminds me of a former colleague. Oh well, clearly English is not the brand’s first language. Unlike my former colleague.

I just want to buy watches that I want and I want to get them soon. I am not going to compete for limited editions or wait on imaginary waiting lists. There are many watches that I like that are easily obtainable. I guess some are excited by the hunt. I find it frustrating.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

I just want to buy watches that I want and I want to get them soon. I am not going to compete for limited editions or wait on imaginary waiting lists. There are many watches that I like that are easily obtainable. I guess some are excited by the hunt. I find it frustrating.

This is how I feel, though I do enjoy the hunt, but only for pieces that I’m actually interested and trying to find the somewhere in the world. I don’t like the shimmery, opaque, potentially sophistic world of limited additions. These kind of things demonstrate to me that they’re just about trying to hype up value, there’s nothing really limited or special or unusual. Just a marketing ploy


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[thesingularity7]

Originally Posted by GGGMT

This is how I feel, though I do enjoy the hunt, but only for pieces that I’m actually interested and trying to find the somewhere in the world. I don’t like the shimmery, opaque, potentially sophistic world of limited additions. These kind of things demonstrate to me that they’re just about trying to hype up value, there’s nothing really limited or special or unusual. Just a marketing ploy


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I like the idea of exclusivity among watches. And most of us do, as we are in fact on the Rolex Forums

While being "limited" does benefit most brands, I'm not convinced that it is always a marketing ploy. I've bought hand-made guitars before and often spent a year or two waiting for them to be made just because it takes that long to do things properly as a 1-2 man operation.

Similarly, I do believe that some watches just cannot be made at a scale that will satisfy everybody. And from what I've read about brands like Kurono, Ming, etc, I think they're just no capable of making watches in the thousands right now. Are they benefiting heavily from the hype? Absolutely. Was that their intention? Unclear.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by thesingularity7

I like the idea of exclusivity among watches. And most of us do, as we are in fact on the Rolex Forums

While being "limited" does benefit most brands, I'm not convinced that it is always a marketing ploy. I've bought hand-made guitars before and often spent a year or two waiting for them to be made just because it takes that long to do things properly as a 1-2 man operation.

Similarly, I do believe that some watches just cannot be made at a scale that will satisfy everybody. And from what I've read about brands like Kurono, Ming, etc, I think they're just no capable of making watches in the thousands right now. Are they benefiting heavily from the hype? Absolutely. Was that their intention? Unclear.

That’s well said.


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[Collector2019]

I was among the lucky ones who got the order through on the first batch and I totally support them on the decisions they have made. I don’t understand why watch enthusiasts are complaining about a limited edition not being anymore limited edition when in fact it’s below 2k watch?

If exclusivity is your taste reach out to Kari, akrivia or even vacheron for a unique piece.

[scarlet knight]

Originally Posted by Collector2019

I was among the lucky ones who got the order through on the first batch and I totally support them on the decisions they have made. I don’t understand why watch enthusiasts are complaining about a limited edition not being anymore limited edition when in fact it’s below 2k watch?

If exclusivity is your taste reach out to Kari, akrivia or even vacheron for a unique piece.

I guess people are perplexed as to why a 50 piece limited edition became a 200-something piece limited edition. In the scheme of things, i guess it is a minor blip. More pressing problems.

[Collector2019]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

I guess people are perplexed as to why a 50 piece limited edition became a 200-something piece limited edition. In the scheme of things, i guess it is a minor blip. More pressing problems.

Well I think it’s deeply embedded in their Japanese culture to honor their word no matter what. They promised 5mins hold period at checkout but the system failed them so they went against their market strategy and “fall on the sword” to keep clients happy. For me that raised my appreciation for the brand


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[thesingularity7]

Originally Posted by Collector2019

Well I think it’s deeply embedded in their Japanese culture to honor their word no matter what. They promised 5mins hold period at checkout but the system failed them so they went against their market strategy and “fall on the sword” to keep clients happy. For me that raised my appreciation for the brand


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I feel the same way about this situation. (a) The watch is still limited, just a little less so than was promised. (b) No obligations were enforced and full refunds were offered (with $50 compensation) to those unhappy with their way of adapting to the situation. (c) Those that were holding them to their word for 5 minute holds had a second chance at getting a watch and (d) They have been incredibly transparent about the entire thing.

This is the most ethical handling of an unfortunate circumstance I've ever seen by a watch brand. After spending 6 months trying to acquire a Rolex and having to navigate the absolute nightmare of a situation (and arguably unethical) that they have created, this kind of honesty is incredibly refreshing. Enough so that I'm certain I'll be adding a Kurono to my collection this year.

I've been on the list for 3-5 micro brand releases in the last 6-8 months and more than one of them had "bugs" or "unavoidable/ unfortunate circumstances" that made a significant fraction of the potential customers unable to get what they thought they would. And each time the end results was "We're sorry for the inconvenience, but we will be restocking again in X more months". Basically a nice way of saying "Too bad".

And from what I can see on Instagram / Facebook, it looks like they navigated this situation to arrive at a point where they have more happy customers than unhappy ones. So if that is the case, I think they've done well for themselves.

[Pongster]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

I just want to buy watches that I want and I want to get them soon. I am not going to compete for limited editions or wait on imaginary waiting lists. There are many watches that I like that are easily obtainable. I guess some are excited by the hunt. I find it frustrating.

Me too. Though at this stage in my collecting life, am attracted to the craftsmanship (especially the dial) of independents. I read about Masahiro Kikuno. Even emailed him. He was gracious enough to respond but he wont take my order. Even if i was willing to wait. I guess that’s how long his list was.

Further research showed me to Hajime Asaoka. And of course Kurono. Although the Tsunami somehow appeals to me, none of the three Kurono releases have sung to me. The closest that i like was the Chronograph.

Anyway, to each his own and again congrats to those who were able to get one.

Maybe the next would be for me.