What could they really do to such an iconic watch and not totally mess it up?

To be honest I don't see what changes, people are just going to leave it in the safe for some time and when they get the papers put it on sale, I mean we are talking clients who have already bought a few Patek, not a first client, so instead of putting it now for 100K, he'll put it in 3-5 years for 130K as it will be worth more money in a few years theoretically.

Anyways there are so many on sale already if we take the 5131 that one more or less won't make a huge difference, on the contrary, the more are for sale the cheaper they should be, make them rarer on the grey market and the prices will soar, at least that's what I think.

I am french and hate any kind of control other people want to have on your life, and not giving you papers for a product you bought for some period, whatever the reason, good or bad, is control against free market and that is never a good sign when these kinds of things start, first it's a few pieces, and next what else?
I am also on 2 lists for hard to get pieces, I would love to keep them, but it's happened in the past that I bought a watch and I didn't love it, even though I was sure I would, and at those price levels if I buy something that I don't love after 6 months well I should have the right to do what I wish, when I had 4 Rolex and 3 Pams I didn't think I would sell them, but tastes change...

I will probably still take the 2 pieces even if that means waiting for the papers, but won't be happy about it and PP won't be gaining points for that with me...

:cheers:

No, don't do it, except if you are super rich, I think a normal grey market price is 75K, max 80K, maybe it'll get there, maybe not, but don't pay more...

I think if you really didn't like a watch you purchased from Patek and told Patek and the AD why you don't like it, I am sure they will take it back, of course at a lower trade-in value. So I don't think this will be a problem. If the AD doesn't sell pre-owned watches, they can then pass it on to reputable second hand dealers.

There are people who flip watches quicker than they trade in cars. And I have been to high end car dealers where they share stories of car owners trading in a car in every year, just to get the latest one.

If the new Patek policy is implemented, I doubt it will affect true watch enthusiasts, whether you keep your watches for years and buy/sell within a short time. However IMHO I think it will affect speculators and resellers who are in it just for the profit.

Agree 100%. even the gardened collector with 100's of PP pieces will be put out but easily convinced it's actually in their best interest for price stability.

Yeah but you're talking about a big number of TRF members, some of which are very respected here, many here are serial flippers, not for the money but because they get bored or want something else, without some of them this would be a very boring place IMO...

At the same time if it was to avoid there being 58 5131 on chrono24 and have more people wearing them then why not, the ends are good as it is incredible seeing so many at these prices, though not very fond of the means...

I think gardened was meant to be hardened! Fat thumbs small key board!

I haven't seen one at 75-80k USD

This thread is interesting - PP do have a number of issues to contend with from the slow down in Emerging Markets (primarily China and other Asian countries) to the poor strategy and execution on some of the core references (5270 etc). However in general the 175th anniversary collection was solid, the London exhibition was fantastic and the 2016 Baselworld pieces were slightly lack lustre but solid nevertheless.

I think Patek have become overly prescriptive on what their collectors and allowed / not allowed to do with their watches. This is unfair especially when most of these watches are sold at top end prices (except perhaps the 5131 and 5175).

I also think that then Nautilus anniversary collection (two watches one of which may be a PC) will be a success. It will be a relatively low key launch but given the importance of the Nautilus range I'm sure it will be given some importance.

I do think Patek realise that in the digital age of increased consumer awareness and changing habits newer brands such as Hublot and RM are able to take market share without any heritage or manufacturing expertise.

I would like to see Patek focus on improving after sales care / servicing, reducing volumes and the product range. They should continue to offer more affordable models such as the 5711 and 5167 but maintain the brand strength around a solid range of AC's, PC's, Chronos.

Compare the current status of PP to their direct peers such as VC and AP and they remain head and shoulders above them in terms of brand strength and product range.

ALS, FPJ and Laurent Ferrier are very credible competitors but they cannot compete with the history and collectibility of PP.

So in summary PP have issues to resolve but the brand is still strong and for me alongside Rolex form the ultimate duo of brands for collectors of all ages.

Coffee anyone!

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What a beauty!

Absolutely stunning...:clap:

One day I will have one of those and I will wear it and enjoy looking down at it knowing ive flown around all of those places on that fantastic time piece..:cheers::thumbsup:

If I want to buy a Patek watch and Patek keeps the certificate, i'm not buying it, simple as that. And if I buy a watch and want to sell it for whatever reason, nobody is going to stop me. Nobody tells me what to do or not to do, please let us have some freedom. Our governments are already putting way too much rules, if now companies are getting in that too, where does this end guys, come on.

I join you


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basically , i agree to keep the papers isn t a friendly move on the other hand it will surely block the grey market and turns some potential customers away , if PP can afford it , do it.

And that's the very freedom you are getting. The option not to play!! Personally a piece of paper doesn't prove ownership it's merely the warranty!

So chatting to another AD today about the problem is that he had a very good customer that wanted a highly sort piece which he got. He also wanted it sealed and the papers clear as it was an investment. He appears to have some sort of shop where he published this piece naively as a way to get more online traffic. PP picked this up and teacked it to the AD specifically asking why 2 weeks after sale it's in a website??? The client didn't plan on selling it but this was construed. Then blank papers popped up!! Let's say that's one dealer who isn't letting g any sealed watches leaving the store ever again!

Hmm.. I am just wondering if the warranty/papers does not prove ownership what would then? Sale receipt perhaps? I know keeping the warranty/papers might slowdown resellers but if I was sold my dream watch at a good price papers or not that watch is coming home (except stolen pieces of course:chuckle:)

Crazy - is this even legal?

Pure nonsense
 

I hope it isn't, all nonsense if you ask me

I agree with this.

Personally I'm not too fussed if they keep warranty paper - upside is I'll be more diligent in making sure I'll only buy keepers :)


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I can only speak for the UK and don't know if this is a PP or Rhone initiative. As I said before this applies to special models not all 60 000 so let's not get too excited! I wish I could afford a watch that is so desirous that PP want to keep the papers!

I think on Monday will post my papers to Thierry ,hey please keep it for three years:-)

Before everyone gets all excited about losing one's freedom to buy and sell Patek watches at will, I think it is worth noting Karl's comments that the new policy will affect application and LE pieces and not your regular production pieces, at least that is how I am interpreting it. I don't know if Patek really cares that someone bought a Nautilus and flipped it to a gray dealer or re-seller. But they do care if you did that with the 5131 or a 175th Anniversary watch. I agree that it is a good thing for the watch community that these pieces stay in the community and not get passed around from re-seller to re-seller.

Wont write anything publicly, will not risk my relationship with my ad's. If someone wants to know more they are welcome to contact me.

Sorry i must have missed the part where your "predictions" became facts and anyone else who may or may not have more insight is just guessing.

I hope they care about all of their clients. The Patek arrogance sometimes is beyond me yet seems to be alive and well.

I don't have predictions just facts. Clearly articulated and supported. Up to the reader to take what he would like from it. Your post was so vague we don't know who is wrong, what is incorrect and how your post helped the thread!! Anyway that's the beauty of a forum.

Interesting info re: Nautilus anniversary. Isn't there a Nautilus themed auction in the works?

Yip. Christies. 40 lots over 3 months I think

Holding the warranty during 5 years !!!
Easier way than stop working with AD who sell sealed watches
Definitely bad bad policy Thierry Stern
Happy to know that I will save money in the future, because even for a limited serie, and even I never sold a Patek before 5 years, the brand which will convince me to pay a lot of money and be captive during 5 years is not born already.