I hope Amazon buys Patek... Prime 2 Day delivered Service of your Nautilus!

The majority of the Fifty Six collection have the Hallmark of Geneva certification. Only the three-handers with the date do not.

Man this would stink. I see no good coming out of it. That said it may not change all that much but to me patek is best as patek and not part of a group.

If I owned a ss nautilus purchased at 50k I would be a bit nervous.

It is a good thing that Lange is not independent. There is a more than credible rumor that Lange sales are not good (resale value adds credence to that) and are propped up by how well Cartier does.

In contrast, from what I have been read VC is doing quite well (Richemont CEO or someone else high in the company specifically mentioned that they are happy with VC sales).

Seems hard to believe. They don’t even make any appealing sport watches to begin with:chuckle:

Not sure why people would hold off buying Pateks right now. If anything I’d jump on them as long as I could prove it was produced before the sale.

Well, Forbes in 2016 or 2017 estimated that the Stern family would worth around 3B if Patek were to go public, based on Patek's revenue comparing to Richemont and Swatch's and their market cap.

So Bloomberg's 8-10B is a considerable premium and one I could see is enticing to the Stern family, if someone were actually to offer that.

Not at all - if PP were to be sold, values of current watches (especially the higher priced) would increase significantly.

AP would capitalise and promote itself trying to elevate itself, so values of AP would increase.

If Rolex bought Patek, my local AD would become a Patek AD.

This is all gravy!! Sell TS, sell!!

But then I’d be sad. Don’t sell TS, don’t sell!


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Why? They make 50,000+ per annum currently. :thinking:

Can't see why a 2018 5740 would be worth more than a 2020 5740?

Because collectors will value a watch made before the change higher than they will after the change, even if the watch is identical. There may be no logic to it, but it is what happens.

And they certainly don’t make 50,000 £50k+ watches per annum.


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people sometimes want a geneva seal patek vs a patek seal patek. I have to think an independent patek is worth more than a Swatch Patek as a lot of the "value" isnt just the watch. Its the story, the history, the manufacture. You lose all that justification to pay more money on the secondary market at least. Im sure they will still sell at the same retail but they wont hold value as well or increase as much

Final nail in the coffin for me too.... :thumbsup:

:clap: :thumbsup:

Personally I don't believe a sale is on the cards for many reasons but even if it was 'The history of the brand' is still 'The history of the brand'.
There is no reason to expect watches to increase in value, the recent Nautilus market is not normal and can't continue, people buying at twice retail will at some point catch a very bad cold. Many of the 'old' pieces commanding premiums in the current frenzy will also drop back when normality returns, which as always it will at some point.

J.P. Morgan once said "Everything has a price. You just have to find out what it is" (when he was out to make an offer of Vanderbilt's railroad company) :smokin:

but you are ignoring the tiny differences that make all the difference in value. Look at a flat 4 sub. that is worth way more for reasons that make far less sense than valuing something made from a previously independent company that no longer exists in the same form.

Im skeptical this sale is for real too. Just saying

:thumbsup:

If anything, now is the time to jump in and make more Patek purchases of the pieces you've always wanted to own.. No?
Lest they should cost more post company sale, rendering them less affordable? :2: :thinking:

Pumping cash into PP will most definitely result in higher production numbers. I'm really hoping it's only a rumor as I wouldn't want to buy a greedy corporate owned watch. PP would have zero heritage then as far as I'm concerned.

Perhaps it is worthwhile remembering that the Stern family acquired Patek Philippe in 1932. They may well be interested in selling their equity at an attractive valuation.

Interesting.. :thinking:
Waiting for a century (close) to cash out ..

I am not sure that it has been a bad operating business in the interim. :cheers:

Just read the news on Hodinkee. Is there any possibility Rolex could be brought out one day?

Probably only Apple can afford Rolex.

I love how bloomberg quoted berenberg.
And now hodinkee and others are quoting bloomberg

I get to work im going to call this dude lol

I don't think selling to a conglomerate is the end of the world, and it would not put me off a model I like now, like a 5740 in future just because the ownership has changed. Considerations would be firstly the new designs, and then secondly how the market situation is and how resale is, pretty much the same as now for me. I get more than enough politics in my life with momentous times in both UK and US now that I really don't need to go deep into it in my watch hobby, the price speculation is bad enough. I think this is just gossip as well... which is something I do like. :chuckle:

Look at what happen to Panerai. If sold to wrong company they will come out with nonsense models even vintage pieces drop in value.

...jumping on the rumor, I would have to say this:

I read about the so called tax burden in their area, which it was said they complained about. Possible property taxes aside, you pay taxes for profits. Paying those taxes simply means you did alright. There are companies who make the mistake to increase investments they actually do not need, thus dispose of too much capacity, only to save a fraction of those costs in taxes. Patek's new production facility was mentioned in this context as an unnecessary investment driven by that thinking. Right or wrong, only a few people know anyway.

Different point though: I think the Sterns would have earned enough to be well for a very long time. If there is really no successor in place, they could also turn the company over to the workers. Make it a 49 % Stern share and a 51 % worker share at he start. They still benefit economically as of then but less.
This would turn the company over to the employees, which know best how to run that ship. They could remain independent, credible, focused on their work and always with the long term goal in sight: To build better watches than they have done so far.

In Spain's Basque country there is the Mondragón Cooperative. It consists of more than 100 companies, many of them manufacturing, and run by their employees, almost 75000 of them in sum.

I think this cooperative model could be pretty interesting especially for the watch industry or at least could have been, as a lot of them are owned by other companies now. But traditionally speaking, workforces have been consisting of locals, highly trained, which for sure have a lot more motivation to stay with the company they work for than an employee would have in a bigger city, where there are more fields, companies, jobs and possibly also less loyal employers.

Would anyone know, if this has ever been tried in the watch industry, a cooperative with its members being the workforce?

I have always admired PP as a brand and they have some interesting watches. We are all aware of the issues with service times and the lack of availability on certain models. I always read articles like this with a grain of salt, but I also realize that sometimes things are not a false story. In the end, I believe the PP people are in business and if the money is right the company can and will be sold. I understand the down side as repeated several times but the upside may be an infusion of capital that will allow for better service times and a higher commitment to maintaining the company and honoring the history without it getting in the way of progress. Maybe not. If you think that a company will pay 7-10 billion for a company and not try to maximize brand value you are mistaken. We will see an increase in production of popular watches and the overinflated market for some watches will be gone as we know it. Not a bad thing, depending on how you look at it.

Chill everyone

What's the saying, any publicity is good publicity

Or have I got that wrong

I’d welcome it.. I still love their designs and would welcome a 5712 in SS. Don’t care about resale

In my opinion, should PP sell out it will likely be a private sale to a non-conglomerate. Perhaps a Middle Eastern or European family. I want to believe that a sale of this type would have factors other than bottom line such as preservation of the brand. Are the Sterns willing to allow this cherished brand to dilute itself over a few extra dollars? Maybe to maybe not?

For € 10 billion, they just might... Who knows? :OMG:
Besides, it's definitely looking like a much better deal than letting their kids run the show, who may/may not lead Patek down the road to bankruptcy/insolvency...
We'll see....

Arguably the biggest asset PP has is intangible (name/heritage/reputation). A potential buyer of PP is fully aware of this and knows it would be financial lunacy to do anything that would be detrimental to the brand reputation. You see this happen constantly in the craft beer market. InBev will buy an independent and let it run almost autonomously but they can help them operate a more efficient business without losing integrity of the product. They know if they change anything the people who buy craft beer will abandon it since the beer snobs have a similar aversion to conglomerates. If one of the major watch conglomerates bought PP it would be as another diversifier to their portfolio, not to water it down. They would most likely rationalize how they allocate production resources to align with market demand but I would imagine it would be at the margin and price increases would be more likely while focusing on cost saving through taking advantage of their economies of scale in marketing and distribution (not production). Bottom line, a conglomerate wouldn’t turn PP into a Hublot or an Omega because they already have one of those.


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I think it’s just a rumor.
If that it’s real then AP will become in few years the new PP! Because it remain the only one from the holy trinity who are independent! PP decrease in value and will be like VC a great watchmaker who are a great past but not the best future, a watchmaker who sell complicated horologerie but don’t keep is value because all will be industrial and SWATCH GROUP only care about the profit at the end of the year!
Like Breguet, Ulysse Nardin.....
Also Rolex will be a king!
Just my opinion!

The rumors are around SIHH are a divorce and how the wifes sharess would be disposed. Im going to leave it at that.

+1:cheers:

Agree with you!
And PP become a new VC......unfortunately

This makes the most sense.


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Totally with you on this, King Rolex will reign supreme in the horological jungle ... :dude:
A non-independent is a non-independent, no matter how you look at it, or what the experts try to argue.
No PP for me post sale.