P.9010 movement has been updated for 2020
 

In an interesting turn of events, it seems as though Panerai quietly updated their P.9010 movement for 2020 onwards. I recently purchased a PAM1313, which I am totally in love with. Having owned a PAM312 before, I knew my way around Panerai watches quite well. Upon receiving my new timepiece, I was quite surprised to notice that I was unable to stop the seconds hand for accurate time adjustment. I searched various YouTube videos and saw demonstrations of the seconds hacking when the crown was fully pulled out. Being a new piece, I sent it in to the Dallas service center in order to have it examined and fully expecting it to be a manufactures defect and have them correct the issue. Interestingly, and somewhat disconcertingly, it seems as though the movement has been changed and seconds are no longer hacking in this new P.9010 movement. Although not a big deal given the 72 hour power reserve, it is quite a pain in the butt and I cannot for the life of me think of what advantage removing this feature could’ve afforded in the manufacture of the movement. Please see attached email from the Panerai center for those interested.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...69bd48c07d.jpg


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Hmmmm, interesting. Would love to see each version of the movement in a side-by-side disassembly video to see what changes were made.

I was under the impression from reading earlier threads on this forum that panerai is using richemont movements in their watches now. I just purchased 1392. My understanding is that 2392 is the update of 1392 with richemont sourced movement that is not the same as 1392 despite having the same designation on panerai site.

Curious to see the new finish as well.


all_in_the_pamily on IG

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Indeed, this needs more detail.

How can a revision in features equal the same movement number!

Knowing how Panerai tends to operate, I'll bet they've swapped it to an "upgraded" movement that is cheaper/easier to service/contains fewer jewels.

I agree with the above, any change like this is very likely for the worse.

I bought a first series PAM682 42mm diver back when they first came out--with transparent caseback and 9010 movement--and loved it.

when they, some time later, swapped the movement out for something worse and increased the prices for their "entry level" 42mm submersibles, I decided I was probably done with new panerai.

it's just too frustrating--when rolex and other brands are innovating movement technology at every opportunity, even in minor ways, for a brand like this to be moving in the opposite direction just seems to say they aren't interested in catering to a consumer that cares about this sort of thing.

That’s a margin move for sure. My 1209 has the richmont movement I think (42mm as you said) but it hacks. The minute hand also jumps when you push crown back in, I think my cartier Santos did that too

Well the finishing is definitely cost saving. Shame, I was quite taken with the 1314, but I didn’t really trust panerai to begin with. This didn’t help things.

I just checked on my recently arrived 1118. Confirmed there is no hacking nor seconds reset in the movement. Solid case back so I can't compare movement finishing.

I still love the watch and remain a big fan of Panerai. However, this is disappointing news as I really enjoy that feature.

While I don't want to go down too pessimistic a rabbit hole on their motives, I'd be very interested to know exactly what was changed in the movement and why?

Makes sense that it’s a cost cutting move, which probably also explains the lack of display case back. The P.9010 is nice enough that it really should be displayed. But the email stated that the finishing has changed to a sandblasted one, so maybe they thought it wouldn’t be a pretty to show. Really a shame that a reputed watch maker (and at this price point) would take measures to cut back on quality. I’m sorry, but the lack of hacking seconds is really inexcusable - that’s present in even the most basic of movements.


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That is advertised as a P9010 for the Pam 1118. If it doesn’t have a P9010 then it is bait and switch and a absolute dealbreaker. No way at that price point should a movement not have a hacking second. Quite frankly, I would demand my money back for any new watch with a demoted movement (and not advertised it was changed) without hacking seconds. This is not a minor change done to any movement unless the entire movement has been reworked to eliminate this feature. How can the movement still be labeled a P.9010 at this point??
This news will be a nuclear explosion in the watch world once it gets reported if it is to be true.

Directly from the Panerai web site as of 01/16/2021:
https://www.panerai.com/us/en/know-h...ts/p-9010.html

The automatic P.9010 calibre, entirely developed and created in the Panerai Manufacture in Neuchâtel, has central hour and minute hands, the small seconds dial at 9 o’clock and the date at 3 o’clock. The energy necessary to accumulate a power reserve of three days – the basic standard for Panerai in-house movements – is stored in two spring barrels whose springs are wound by an oscillating weight operating in both directions. Consisting of 200 components including 31 jewels, the calibre has a diameter of 13¾ lignes and it is 6 mm thick. The balance, fixed by a bridge with twin supports, oscillates at a frequency of 28,800 vibrations per hour (4 Hz). It is associated with the device which stops it as soon as the winding crown is pulled out, enabling the watch to be perfectly synchronised with a reference signal. In the P.9010 calibre the hours can be conveniently adjusted without interfering with the movement of the minute hand, thanks to the device which directly moves only the relative hand in jumps of one hour forward or backwards. This function is very useful when changing time zones or moving between summer time and winter time, and conveniently the adjustment of the hour hand is automatically connected to the date indicator.

At the 46 second mark in the video in the link provided shows the crown pulled and the hacking second enabled.

This is what we call a ”smoking gun” in my companies legal dept.

Completely agree. Which is exactly why I sent my watch in to the Panerai service center to begin with. Unfortunately, I am not sure if there’s much that can be done about if. All they would need to say is that “the website isn’t updated”. Rolling my Eyes!!!


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Disappointing. As a newbie to the brand, albeit with a 16 yo watch, I have been enjoying looking at the innovative materials used on some of the newer pieces. But it would really bother me if I felt they were cutting corners and on a backward trajectory in movements. :banghead:

I have a deposit for a 1119. Seriously disappointing

Not impressed

I just checked my 1661, warranty card marked Aug 2020 and it hacks.

Maybe they put a cheaper movement in those models with solid back case? Still remember the Brooklyn Bridge. :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

If they really did this, it should no longer be called the p9010 movement. How confusing going forward.

Well it has the p9010 movement but I don’t know which version it is, hacking. Or non-hacking.

I hope they don’t make these changes to hacking watches that come in for service.

I would contact them again and say you want the movement that was advertised or your money back. This is false advertising at the very least by keeping the same 9010 designation. That movement change (lets call it p.9010B) will make that specific movement toxic and separate it from the original movement dramatically. Contact where you purchased it from as well.


This is no different than buying a new Ford Raptor 4x4 and finding out Ford removed the 4x4 transmission, didn’t disclose the change and is still calling it a Raptor 4x4. Now you have a two wheel drive Raptor and last year models had a 4x4. How much resale value or desirability do you think your new truck will have but most important lacks a feature you need and paid for.

I have a brand new 1313. When the crown is fully pulled out, the seconds hand stops. It does not reset to zero, but it stops.

yes, this is the hacking second function. when the second reset to zero, its called the second reset function(like on the pam 524).

Thanks for the heads up, still waiting on the 1118 here. i love the hack seconds feature of the PAM01033 GMT with 9011 movement. Would be interesting to see the movement within the 1117 / 1118 / 1119. Hopefully once a few reviewers get theirs they will open the case to show us what's inside.

Again, would love to see a video of the movement being taken apart. This would do a lot to dispel any rumors / speculation while also showcasing why this change was made. i do agree the movement must have a new designation (call it 9010b or some such).

It sounds like it is variable abs they flipped it mid-cycle. I have a 10/2020 purchase.


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If it helps, the P9010 is a upgrade from the P9000 movement. Here is its disassembly of the P9000 and you can see the lever that stops the movement halfway down the page under the “gear train”. Pretty standard feature. I have a lot of experience with the P.9010 and movements in general. The P.9010 is the best in-house movement Panerai has ever produce to date with its design and features. There is no reason this hacking lever would ever be removed other than a completely different movement is being used. The notification with the finishing being changed sends up flags it might be a Frankenstein piece together movement using outsourced parts to create a P9010 like clone. Absolutely bizarre unless this might be a temporary fix to a Covid parts shortage. The P.9010 has been out awhile now and is well established and reliable so there is no major deficiencies that needs addressed.

The P9010 is used in the top flagship Panerai models. You can tinker with the entry level watches but this would be Panerai voluntarily committing brand suicide.

https://watchesbysjx.com/2014/09/exp...-together.html

This will give you some info between the P.9000 and P.9010.
https://monochrome-watches.com/intro...ays-automatic/

Agree 100% with your assessment. If you were in this position, what would you do?


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I own a Carbotech Pam 661 with the original P9010. It is a incredible watch and movement combo. That said, I would have not purchased it if it didn’t have a hacking movement. I would certainly contact Panerai and tell them you absolutely want the proper P.9010 movement that is advertised and was developed with a hack seconds. Don’t let anyone tell you this is just a minor tweak or insignificant modification. This kind of change would have to have its movement redesignated with a different name or number. There is no getting around this at the very least.

Then I would contact your original dealer where you purchased the watch and tell them the same. I personally would go to whatever leverage I had to do to either get a original P.9010 movement or my money back including the fraud/purchase protection of my CC. No way would I ever own any movement without a hacking second. The movement is so good it is capable for under 2 seconds a day. I am getting around +1 a day with my P9010. Without a hacking movement you could have to live with a + or - 30 second out of sync movement. :banghead: The only way you can synchronize a non hacking movement is letting the mainspring/power reserve go dead and then try to start the movement again near the correct atomic time. Once you do that, you probably will have to adjust the minute hand to a marker when the second hand hits zero. This would be a huge PIA with a $400 watch and absurd for any automatic movement over $1500.00.

on the panerai official website, it still said the p.9010 has the hacking second function.

I have to admit, after thinking it over, if they've changed the movement without notification, it's leaving me feeling a bit salty.

I've gone ahead and emailed both the boutique SA as well as Panerai concierge politely asking about this. I will update everyone once I get a response.

Please do. I think the more voices they hear from, hopefully we can get some answers or have them make this right.


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thank you.

I’ve contacted a source in Neuchâtel. Will advise.


all_in_the_pamily

THANK YOU:thumbsup:

Slightly off topic. I have a PAM 959 with warranty card dated 2/2020. OP XXXIV calibre is stamped on the movement paper.

Per the website, the watch has the P.900 calibre:

https://www.panerai.com/us/en/collec...le---42mm.html

According to this website, reference P.900 / base OP XXXIV:

https://watchbase.com/panerai/caliber/p-900

Which movement do I have?

Isn’t that the same thing. They just rebranded the richemont moment to the panerai in-house naming convention.

The more I think about the 1313, the more it annoys me. Panerai really have a habit of cost cutting on watches within a very short time frame from release. After all, it’s not like any of the watch sites are going to add an addendum to the reviews of the original spec. Richemont really do seem to push the penny pinching with Panerai.

I sent my 2019 979 with P.9010 mvmt in for service last week due to some erratic behavior - stopping for no reason, and what had been excellent accuracy suddenly off as well. I received a letter from Panerai within 1 day apologizing and stating that they will do a full service at no cost and get this back to spec. No mention of altering the movement in any way. And of course this hacked. I would not consider paying that kind of money for non-hacking watch. I may call them tomorrow to ask about what I am hearing pertaining to this issue. If they were to say they will change to non-hacking, we have a serious problem! That is not what I purchased. I will update the forum with what I hear.

And here lies the bigger issue. Panerai went through a black eye moment with the Brookland Bridge issue. That at least had a stamping of a different movement inside. The Optics were a mess well beyond that one watch. Panerai then went through a complete restructure to put a lot of time and money in a genuine in-house movement making a top shelf movement for their flagship models. In tandem they come out with a entry level line of Panerai. They invest and develop all new top end case materials. Panerai was finding their way again with a progressive and exciting image. To risk all they have done with this movement and image over the last few years would be beyond reckless. The marketing investment alone will lost in one foolish move.

Hypothetically speaking: No one is this short sighted unless they plan to scrap the movement with a all new movement around the corner. If they purposely hobble the P9010 the last year, it will make their all new movement look even more of a achievement. This is a idiotic move and a big FU to anyone that buys a 2020 model but I cant wrap my head around any possible reason for sabotaging their best movement. Forget about if the movement is sandblasted or finished different, trivial. You would never save enough money to warrant a mechanical change in a already established movement to make it worth the trouble. I have been around the mechanical watch world for over 30 years now. I am stumped. I am not rushing into any opinion until I get more intel directly from Panerai.

Panerai concierge, in my experience, are useless. I asked two questions via email, both gave the wrong answer!

I am going to call there myself tomorrow to get someone on the phone. I have also emailed an AD that I know of from YouTube (Elizabeth Smith, from Oliver Smith Jewelers in Aspen, CO). She has a great YouTube site and is a large Panerai AD. Will let you know what I hear.

Would be great if we can keep the thread going to report back what we all hear. The more information, the better for everyone.


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