Jean-Marc Pontroue is destroying the brand
 

Just watched "WatchAdvisor - PANERAI: Straight talk with CEO Jean-Marc Pontroue and I can't believe this guy.

So starting in 2023 all watch will be converted over to the stupid "esteel" with the transition complete by 2025. I don't understand the logic in a luxury product using recycled materials! I don't want a watch with any recycled materials in it.

I guess I'm done buying Panerai's I just don't like the direction the company has been going since this guy took over as CEO. They are also getting rid of the wood boxes and the watches will now come in a small cardboard box with travel case.

If anyone at Panerai is listening you need to get rid of this guy and get back to your roots of what made Panerai a success. It's certainly not esteel and feminine looking travel cases.

Lots of steel is already previously used. What I have issue with is the cringe worth e-steel on the dial.

I just got my first Panerai, PAM 233. I find myself drawn to the more vintage models. I wonder how the new direction of Panerai will affect the value of the previous models. I guess it really doesn't matter to me. I too am turned off on the eco-friendly cheap packaging being used by other firms (i.e. Breitling).

I agree with everything you said. I just recently added a PAM 904 to my "Watch Wishlist". I too am curious how these recent "progressions" will affect value. Not because I'm interested in resale, but because I'm curious if I should buy now or wait?

Once they transition fully to eSteel they will drop the special name.

I think the point here is sustainability. At the moment by having it on the dial, I do agree that is somehow devalues the watch. But once removed from the dial, I don’t mind that the steel is partially recycled. I just don’t need that reminder on the dial lol.

Many luxury brands are going all-in with sustainability.

Its the way world is functioning whether we like it or not... V8 V6 engines are looked down upon and all major Car co.s are forced to electrify for the new world... The fact these dead electric batteries might actually do more damage to environment in future for disposal is to be seen... The extra electricity generation required will have more impact to environment... More fossil fuels burned , nuclear waste released etc etc

Also the e steel might actually be more energy consuming or even the cardbox ... Knowone knows but for sales and marketing people only have one target that is to please a certain mentality to achive more sales at the end of the day. Its all a gimmick no one really gives a damn about the planet in reality and thats the sad part of today's world. Most activists are just fame hungry rather than actual crusaders.

Not to sidetrack the thread, but electric car batteries have a lifespan of about 10 years followed by 10 years of use for energy storage. Furthermore, with today’s technology, 80% is recyclable. Who know what the percentage will be in 20 years.

It’s not marketing or making people feel good. It’s real science and facts.

As for needing energy, yes, one needs to generate power to move the car. The more renewable the source the better. And regardless of the source, the dramatic decreases in CO2 and local particle emissions have real impacts.

As for watches, apparently the younger generation (those who will be the majority of luxury buyers soon enough) expect sustainability. Companies need to cater to that. It’s just good business sense. And if sustainability happens to be better for the planet along the way, why not?

You’re stuck in the past. ‘Feminine boxes’??
Panerai are marketing to the new consumer, not dinosaurs like us on a watch forum. Do I buy into it? Absolutely not!! :chuckle:

This is becoming boring.

Panerai from the correct era .Thats what you buy .:thumbsup:

Agree! Don’t put it on the dial and people won’t care.


PAM 177 / 438 / 643 / 1314 / 233 •

The CEO is doing his job to reposition the brand in the eyes of those who will make the consumers' landscape for luxury items 10 ys down the road. It is a long term strategy that does not focus on values and drivers of past consumers, but those of our children.

It is both normal that many current and old-time consumers don't feel connected to the new strategy, as well as that the CEO's strategy is considered a legitimate and smart business move by investors.

Only time will tell.

My view is that sustainability and luxury does not mix very well. Many chose Panerai for its unique design direction, history and for keeping its heritage, at least up till now. Many successful higher end brands remain successful because these are among the factors one choses a luxury item. Simply adjusting to fads and changing demographics is a very simplistic strategy atuned to mid level brands. (aside, using scraps from machining is not new nor unique as metal scraps has been for the longest time recycled).

I’m in that generation, i could give two [emoji90] about sustainability in watches. I would never buy a brand because they are using sustainable resources in a watch. I want gold, or stainless steel, or whatever their version of stainless steel is. Panerai is going backwards.

The lack of finishing, the “in-house” movement they don’t really make but sort of take credit for. It’s a mess. They make some really cool watches but i wouldn’t pay anything near msrp for one. Their finishing is also pretty bad considering the price point. Different league but Nomos does a way better job of finishing in a the club that’s $8,000 less than most panerai.

I think they need to dig in more on finishes, making their own movement that’s decorated better, and create something that people want to stand in the imaginary line for. Omega does a far better job in their movements with a display back. Even Rolex does a better job without a display back.

If panerai throws a few more limited editions out there they can become the new Hublot.




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I have to agree! Panerai just keeps finding new and unique ways to Bastardize their brand! Which is really disheartening because they’ve had so much opportunity to do things right! And what’s up with the sneaky attempt to downgrade their movements, and keep the movement ref # the same?! :dummy:

Kinda how I feel. They remind me of that person who I’m sure many of us know who despite having many great qualities and opportunities, just can’t seem to help making bad choices and f***ing up :dummy:

Although 80% is recyclable, not even close to that is being recycled. Furthermore, the production of an electric car is very harmful to the environment. The environmental toll of electric car batteries begins before the product is even assembled, most notably in the mining of its active material, lithium. We are wrecking the environment in new ways which are actually worse than the old ways.

Additionally, scientists disagree on the "science and the facts" all the time. So which scientist are you to believe?

I am fine with eSteel, I just don't like the new box and packaging.

This:cheers:

"PANERAI" welcome to the new swatch

I'm with you on the packaging, it's a real head scratcher. If a purchaser doesn't want a box, why not have the dealer keep it? If they standardize the packaging, the dealer can reuse and order more when they need them. That seems like a better eco solution than their new box. It would also cost Panerai less, since not everyone would take a box. Seems like an easy win win.

Aesthetics wise, the color looks like Breitling. Great branding is recognizable from across a room. Using your competitors colors in packaging is so baffling. Paneria could've kept their box experience by using young wood, which is also eco friendly, and kept their uniqueness.

This new solution looks like an attempt to cheapen their packaging cost and add a feature that other brands have started doing, namely the travel case (see Omega and Zenith). On that note, I'd say their competitors did it better. The Panerai's travel case, with the rotating lid, looks so bulky. When traveling, and space is a premium, why would one want to take a large travel case?

If your into collecting knives. Steel is a focal point. There are many blends of steel. Some for hardness, corrosion resistance, durability etc. Not sure what blend Panerai is using but I’d be curious to see the molecularity differences. Might squash some of the backlash

what does the new carboard box look like?

Environmental concern is not a gimmick and many people do give a damn. For Panerai to show some consideration makes them forward thinking, at least IMHO.

Panerai has been a dumpster fire for years…….Limited Editions, Special Editions…… At the end of the day, other than to the Panerai enthusiasts, they all look the same.

It’s been said before but Panerai is like a crazy eccentric artist. Every now and then they will produce a masterpiece but between those times you have to put up with a lot of bizarre nonsense. This “sustainability materials” in a luxury watch is utter marketing nonsense and counter intuitive to the very idea of the market they are in. It’s shamefully lazy and transparent marketing. You can use yard waste as a sustainable and recyclable source for my dinner salad but I don’t want my 5 Michelin star restaurant to do it.



New Panerai marketing:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/plw5xxdbhm...0AM.jpeg?raw=1



Old Panerai marketing:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tz1a5kdzar...0AM.jpeg?raw=1

:rofl:

Nailed it! :thumbsup:

I agree with everything you've said. The 233 is legendary, I have a 112 and I love it. I like a few other older base models but have been quite upset with the direction the brand has taken ever since they went to non screw in casebacks on several "diver" models. It's a real shame, I was a big fan previously. These are luxury items and completely wasteful, to act like these brands want to be sustainable is disingenuous.

At some point you'd think the gimmick special editions would have to run their coarse. There are only so many that fans will buy before it's overkill.

I know this is primarily a thread about sustainable materials (which I'm not too bothered by, except for the pretty awful logo on the dial), but hear me out.
I used to be a huge Panerai fan, it was my first ever proper watch. I bought a blue face 119 in Selfridges in London for £2500 back in 2005 to celebrate getting a particular job.
Over the years I then bought a 243 (best sub ever made imho), a 233 (one of the best watches Panerai have ever made imvho) and odd things like a 160.
I gave the 119 to my son for his 18th, some years ago now, he has always loved it and it will, I hope, always stay in our family.
However ... I went into the London boutique a few weeks ago and tried on some watches I'd seen online, keen to get back into the brand. Gone from the current collection are most of the watches I liked; the new bracelets are tinny, awful, feel like they've fallen out of a Christmas cracker. I must have tried on 10 watches, none of which I would have worn had they been given to me for free. Massively disappointing. I think the guy in charge has got it seriously wrong. The brand back in 2005 made a handful of models, most with something quite special about them. Now they pump out what feels like hundreds and, as others have said, they just don't have the finishing and quality that I remembered. They feel pretty unsubstantial in the hand and I'm out. It's such a shame. The only silver lining is that pre Vendome pieces seem to be plummeting in value so I might go there. As someone said above, buy from the right era. Maybe a 127. Or wait for 203's to be dragged down by the brand until they're almost worthless and pick one of those up for a song.

Panerai’s impact on the environmental issue would be very, very small. But stating a corporate direction on sustainability (i.e. part of their production choice) is being transparent with their customer base.

I’d guess Panerai would have been pilloried had the post-consumer recycled content been kept a secret.

Whether it has greater appeal depends upon the customer base in 2025 onward. Good promotion already since the watch world has noticed and a discussion is taking place.

As for impact, even if Rolex + Swatch converted every model into 100% recycled content (if that was even possible), it would be on the order of a gnat on an elephant’s trunk.

I wholeheartedly agree with this thread. I had a Pam1024 and a PAM1305, and enjoyed both. It’s a brand I want to love, and keep hoping they get back on track, but for all of the reasons mentioned in this thread have found the brand hugely disappointing. All the while their quality of finishing and movements is going down, and prices keep going up. I feel they are already over priced, given the finishing I’ve seen. At what point does it break the brand?

I've owned seven different Panerai watches across all their different case offerings and the only two that I miss are my PAM024 and PAM005. The brand has just traveled in a direction that I am no longer interested in. It really has nothing to do with recycled materials or even the use of innovative novel materials. It just comes down to the branding, the movements, the compromises on the entry level models, and the ridiculous asking prices.

There is no consistency in the offerings, the catalogue is bloated, and you cannot get what most lovers of the brand really want: stainless steel, sandwich dial references with minimal complications, minimal dial text, domed crystals, and conservative designs. People want the PAM111, PAM112, PAM210, PAM372. That's your core offerings and there's no reason any of those models should have been discontinued (just given better movements as they are introduced).

Not a fan.

Haven’t seen any new model to drool over or crave since the Pam911 by AB in 2018.

AB was a true salesman. Lol
Jean-Marc is just an idealistic talker

JM, Coffee’s for closers :cheers:

I couldn’t care less about the cardboard boxes, I buy the watch. I do think that making a wooden box that I’m going to put in the closet forever is wasteful.

Having said that, I went to a Panerai boutique again the other day, first time in 3 years or so, and didn’t find many references that spoke to me… All those 44mm and 42mm submersibles are not great. I get it they have to market to a broader audience, but still…

The Radiomir line looks like have been gutted. The Duo - let’s not even talk about it…

Without wanting to start a fire here, I do have to ask, everyone that is upset with the current direction the brand is heading in, when was the last time you bought a Panerai at an AD and what discount did they give you?

IME, most of the people most upset about the direction of the brand haven't actually bought a new PAM in more than 5 years (and if they did, they pushed for AT LEAST a 20% discount)

I wish Richemont put as much emphasis on Panerai as they do on Cartier.