16710 with a damaged case from a Trusted seller here
 

In the August of 2014, I bought a X series 16710 from one of the trusted sellers here. It was worn in the initial weeks, later it remained on the sidelines as I had other preferences. Recently, I was trying to wind the watch and the crown came off. So thought its service time. Took it to Rolex Service Centre and they came back saying the case needs to be replaced and the price for that is AUD 4180. Called them up, they said "thread in the case middle and the back is damaged". As per RSC, this damage existed before and said they can't fix it, instead wants to replace the whole case. On further questioning , RSC advised that upon opening the watch they noticed that the case and back were glued together. The watch is still at the RSC presently.

This was reported to the seller early last month, he suggested that RSC might have damaged the threads while opening it. Recommended me to contact a shop in US that rethreads cases and case backs. I rejected that suggestion & recommendation and advised him the other detail provided by the RSC "The watch was glued together". I requested him to take the watch back and return the money. He refused to do that citing his return policy "If the watch was misrepresented I will accept a return if notified within 48 hours of the buyer accepting the watch".


These are the two facts I see..

1.During my ownership of this watch, up until RSC opened it, it was only worn and not opened or checked inside (How would you expect these kind of things to happen. It was bought from a trusted seller here and there is no good reason to get it checked internally)

2.RSC found it glued together

For now, I would go seller undisclosed. There is a reason why I came down to vintage section. 16710 by no means is a vintage but do we have to expect this kind of frailty in the case/case threads on a 25 year old watch?(seller keep pointing to the age of the watch) Are my demands gone overboard here? Appreciate your thoughts on the issue :cheers:

This is like 2 years later.....hmmmm......i am not sure i would expect the seller to do something here.....2 years is a while. That being written, most would step up and rectify if that were the case.

However, the glue is not good......a decent seller will authenticate and make sure what they are selling is correct.....so this is a coin toss.

Sorry to hear this. Even from a trusted seller my first order of business is to take it to a RSC for authentication.

Way too much time has passed

How would someone be able to verify what you did or did not do with the watch since you purchased it (2 years ago)?

> no way of verifying

Did the seller provide a warranty?

> 48 hr return policy

So I think you are beat. I guess the only remaining question is whether the seller knew of tampering or defects when they sold you the watch. I think the TRF community would like to know of a "trusted seller" that is dealing in questionable merchandise.

-dan

Agreed...

Good example of "Caveat Emptor"

Folks throw that "trusted seller" term around way too easily here. You really think all the "trusted sellers" here open up every Rolex they take in and inspect it before reselling it? I would always have my own inspection/authentication done when purchasing pre-owned....I don't care who the seller is. Way too much money involved not to independently validate.

I feel your pain and sorry to hear this but after two years of ownership, I think you just have to eat the cost of the repairs. "Buyer Beware".

I wouldn't be so sure about that statement. I know the ones I deal with (popular ones here) have watchmakers open them before selling. The last thing any of the top sellers here need is to accidentally sell a fake or misrepresented watch. Some of the ones that sell less watches... I'm not exactly sure what they do.

Flip it

After full disclosure though right?:thinking:

Unfortunate situation

Mine get sent to Vanessa not because I don't trust the seller, it's cause so issues like this don't come up. I don't think all sellers open the back up and double check. My 116619 was still stickerd so that's the only one I never sent to her.

I wonder if all sellers open the backs of watches traded to them. I bet they do.

I usually take all of mine to RSC in BH for them to authenticate, resize bracelet, service, etc. Never have a problem with any of them (all from trusted sellers here).

Thanks for the responses dear gentlemen..

Yes, no way to verify what I did or what I didn't. So we are in an unfortunate situation where its one man's word against another man.

Sellers response initially when this was reported "In all honesty i am a watch dealer and buy and sell lots of watches. i bought this from another dealer with no history.I did however take it to my watchmaker who put it on a timing machine and said its within cosec specs and it didn’t need a service and was running fine" .

Later response from the seller where he tightens his argument further after more complaining from my side "The watch i will repeat was in working order when you bought it and even passed a water pressure test.". This is where I was bothered. If it passed pressure test, why was I not notified that straight away after I sent an E-mail to him informing that RSC found the watch was glued together. If you ever got the watch pressure tested, I think it will be the first detail you would want to pass on if the case stability/strength comes into question.

Yes, I would reveal the seller not because of any of my grievances but because I feel this forum needs to know issues between buyers and sellers. Will need to size up things on this rather than just pulling the trigger in haste.

Yes

This shouldn't deter anyone from buying what they like from trusted sellers here. Did business with some like DavidSW, they were faultless. Just need to know the right method, which is to take the watch straightaway to RSC for assessment if you feel it needs to. If this thread enlightens that fact or any others, I am jolly good.

Definitely an unfortunate situation.

Not all "trusted sellers" are equal, but it's tough in your specific case because assuming your story is true, too much time has passed.

There is no way to verify what happened in those two years.

It might not be reasonable to name the seller, but it's definitely a lesson for sellers and buyers. Watches should be opened and properly checked by both parties.

So who is the seller?

16710 with a damaged case from a Trusted seller here
 

I'm not a dealer but have bought and sold several watches he and on eBay. Each one goes to a certified watchmaker to see if anything is amiss. Due diligence on my part since I flip watches a lot and would never pass something onward that might be a burden on another member here.
Trust but verify - and IMHO after 2 years it is not really fair to expect any seller to make up for shortcomings that could have been discovered with ordinary diligence.

16710 with a damaged case from a Trusted seller here
 

This situation really stinks. the seller should have checked out the watch before selling. Obviously this does not always happen and it's really the buyers responsibility to confirm everything is in good order. After two years no one should expect a return. It stinks... But it's not the sellers problem anymore.


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Its reasonable, forum needs to know issues like these, just not glowing tributes all the time saying "such and such transaction is gloriously wonderful".. Agree with other your comment "There is no way to verify what happened in those two years"

Within 2 years seller was notified, not after. Yes, time frame is a point here but not the main point, main point is "glued up case". Not due diligence but lack of knowledge/experience is the cause of buyer's failure here.

I've always wondered about scenarios like this whenever purchasing used watches here.

Even though too much time has passed, if a well known seller, and if what you state is true, I would think it helps everyone here to know that this particular seller doesn't open and check thoroughly before reselling (perhaps even for those that bought from this seller around the same time). Although, practice may have changed since then.

16710 with a damaged case from a Trusted seller here
 

I think you've already given enough info to identify the seller. If I am correct, his return policy also states that all watches are sold "as is."

If he didn't represent that it had been opened and the inside inspected or didn't post pictures of the inside of the watch in the listing, then my feeling is that is falls within "as is." While this is disappointing to learn, it's part of the risk of buying from a dealer other than an AD. One buying a watch has the opportunity to do their own inspection at receipt. If the buyer chooses not to, then they assume the risk. In any event, two years seems far too long to me to expect a different result out of the seller's general goodwill.


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Krishna
I should have said 23 months and stand corrected.
Sympathize with the difficulty you now have with that watch. Rethreading the case is what I would do if I was spending my own money.
I have figured out a lot in my years here. But I still have much to learn. However, lack of experience on my part would not be a burden on the seller if I never checked a watch I bought for almost 2 years...

I definitely agree with you saying that the forum needs to know about these issues.

You're right.

The problem here is time.

A mod has asked who the seller is so let's see where this goes.

I feel for you since even the most senior members have said numerous times if there's nothing wrong with a watch no need to have it serviced and opened up. When you buy from someone reputable you wouldn't think you'd have to have the watch opened up at all for any reason, so although it's been a heck of a long time, it makes sense hat it took this long to realize something was wrong.

That said, you did have 48 hours to check the watch out. Now I personally don't blame you for not checking out the watch but that was the policy and certainly your choice to do so.

However, If I were the trusted seller here I would return your money upon return of the watch. Although I've given it to you straight about your ownership of the situation, it looks terrible on their part to have sold a watch that had a glued on case back. Returning you the money is a cheap way out of potentially losing dozens if not more of future deals.

Sorry to hear this.
I can see how this could happen. I do not have access to a qualified WS locally so when I buy something it is usually a few weeks to several months before I get to the city to see my WS to have it inspected and pressure tested.
May need to rethink that process.

Bad situation to be in. The watch is authentic but just in shabby condition. Given the time that has passed I would take this as a loss and a lesson learned.

Like others have said, not all "trusted" sellers are made equal.

IG - @kakashi_gram