Can Vacheron Ever Gain Independence?
 

Random thought, if Greubel Forsey was able to buyback their independence from Richemont, would it ever be possible for Vacheron to do the same?

Most of their time of independence, VC where dancing around bankrupcy.
Their most valuable asset was the building on the Islet in Geneva for decades and that was the only reason why people like Yamani wanted to put money into the company

I didn’t know that.

No. Richemont was a minority stakeholder in GF, VC is a wholly owned entity, there is no one to buy VC back. Additionally even a sale would be difficult, VC is supported by Richemont resources at all levels from movements to real estate and servicing operations so it couldn't operate independently without massive investment.

Maybe if the Saudi PIF decides to buy it and take it private. Otherwise I don’t see it happening lol

Yes it is possible if Lisa posts about how much she loves collecting Vacheron Constantin.

What would that accomplish?

Patek is independent and makes an objectively worse made product for more money than Vacheron.

Anything as simple as that is possible. What are their terms?

I think they are fine under their current umbrella. They make a lot of awesome high end watches(Les Cabinotieres), a flagship sports line (Overseas), entry level (FiftySix), classic (patrimony/traditionelle) and historiques to honor their past. Finally, they have the best customer service IMO.

This is more balanced than many brands (AP for one) and the absence of hype is not a bad thing (for collectors at least).

I don’t know what pure independence would do this or frankly how it would benefit them. FWIW I owned two overseas in past and no VC in collection (at present, that is).

Independence is a false god. They have the backing of unlimited firepower, and inherent security of a large group and are, for all intents and purposes, left to do their own thing as the jewel in Richemont's crown.

Don’t rock the boat.

I'd like to see ALS gain independence. Maybe then they can repair the damage done due to Richemont's ALS forced package 'deals' and future promises if you buy 1, 2, and maybe 3 pieces. Doubt Richemont would ever let ALS go, if they were smart, as some properties are best kept for marketing reasons. Probably the same with VC, why sell it when you can use the name to leverage marketing and sales?

This is a question that no one is asking.

I love VC and wish for them to stay aboard the mothership. I like them to be around in 20 years.

They also have the benefit of lateral integration from the group in terms of parts supply and promotion. Crazy to leave all that unless Richmond wants to take an unacceptable direction on the brand concept.

I'm a HUGE ALS and also VC fan. For me, I far prefer both to PP.

For smaller brands like these, I don't think there is any inherent value to being "independent." The Richemont advantage is HUGE. Think about it, you have attorneys available in every major city who can help you navigate regulatory issues, at an economies-of-scale hourly rate. Real estate professionals who can leverage economies of scale to get great spaces for multiple brands for effective value. Security and insurance professionals who can move these very tiny and expensive machines all around the world efficiently and safely. Software, inventory, broad purchasing power for watchmaking equipment and technology. Even things like purchasing and renovating spaces, carpeting, lighting, HVAC, chairs, desks, union labor contracts, etc, can all be done collectively for higher quality output and more cost efficiently.

Ever see the huge and thick glass in the ALS or VC or JLC boutiques in NYC? Can you imagine how much it must cost to buy and install just the ~10 panels for the ALS boutique alone? Then imagine a bulk purchase for the Panerai and JLC and VC and ALS boutiques, and a bulk contract for all the installation and after-care? I bet you safe 30-40% conservatively. And so on and so forth.

While Lange is my favorite brand, I respect that PP does sit at the top of the pyramid. Yet, they still "bundle" all the same. I was at a major boutique in NYC and asked to look at a Cubitus and a 5811. These watches aren't for me, but I was interested to look at them. The SA was kind and warm and welcoming - no complaints there - but she let me know that PP "required" a customer to purchase 5 PPs before being allowed to "apply" for the 5811. I didn't have any heartburn, that's just the market and how they are stratifying their customers. Like Lange with the SS Odysseus.

To what purpose?

Richemont has 3 Amigos...

If I was forced to pick one brand under Richemont that enjoys the greatest reputation for haute horology, I’d lean toward Vacheron Constantin. How are they being held back by being at the peak of their pyramid?

That said, among some, there’s no unanimous answer.

Some prefer A. Lange & Söhne, others prefer Jaeger-LeCoultre, depending on what “haute horology” means to them.

But if a brand isn't in the 3 Amigos quadrant, I can understand them going it alone...good luck with that one...


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Can Vacheron Ever Gain Independence?
 

Dupe

I love ALS a lot too, but I think they are in a good position now. They have some autonomy from Richemont iirc, they don't use a combined workshop (I believe Richemont has service centres that does Cartier, Panerai, IWC, JLC, VC etc) and send most of their pieces above 3 handers back to Dresden for servicing. The way they operate is also different from VC and the other Richemont brands.

They also have the financial backing to continue creating new calibres. The new 34mm 1815 has such a great new caliber.

As for the package deals, while no one likes it, I believe at least ALS is upfront about it unlike other brands. If you want B, you have to buy A and the HQ approves this and then you collect them all together. While everyone should be able to buy what they want, what if there is a thousand people vying for a product that is limited to 25, 50 or 100? There are far worst games being played by ADs for anything sells for a premium.

Unless independence will mean ALS will continue to innovate and make a new caliber for every other watch, I rather they remain in the Richemont group for financial backing.

I never once saw a VC and thought "oh look, it's just like a Cartier but round and with a maltese bezel". I'm glad they have heavy hitter backing. Gives me confidence that I'll have someone to service it and the parts to do so in five years.

In other news, I just paid the invoice this morning for my 7920 blue dial. Should be wearing my first VC by end of day tomorrow! It's been a year and a half since I saw my first at an airport and made it my grail.

Congrats. Great choice.

Major congrats! :cheers:

Congrats it’s a very good and good looking watch. Enjoy wearing it!

Rolex and AP are independent and do the same bundling.

Honestly, I don’t get the hate for Richemont. A great collection of brands. Perfect? No. But many compelling products and plenty of passion.

You guys may be right, best to keep them all together for economic reasons. Let them stand all on their own and they might fail.