New purchase question

[kiwiAaron]

Hi,

Looking to purchase my first Rolex.

I have a budget to $2500USD which puts me at entry level and used obviously (note: I have three kids, work for a church, live in an expensive city and it's taken me a while already to squirrel away that much on a gratuitous purchase - so increasing my budget isn't an option).

On eBay and C24 there are watches at the price point. Almost all are Oyster, Oysterdate and a few Air kings - which is fine, I love those watches. I've read posts on what to look for in a vintage watch etc i.e. the importance of 'buying the seller' etc.

My question is this - what would do faced with the choice between these two options
1. An okay looking Oysterdate/Air-King with original bracelet
2. OR... An Oysterdate/Air-King with a better looking dial (condition and/or color) but no original bracelet (so perhaps a third part leather one)

Assuming both watches are mechanically sound.

Is there any conventional wisdom around this?

[Tools]

It's up to you on what you put a priority on. Better looking dial? If you mean better condition, then I would look for the best condition dial I could find since original dials are difficult to come by.

The early Air-Kings are great watches, but at 34mm are considered slightly small by today's standards where the bigger brother Explorer is usually 36mm.

[Dan S]

Personally, I'm confident that given a month or so, I could buy a nice 34mm vintage Rolex Perpetual/Precision with bracelet for $2500. It would not be a fancy dial variant, and could take a bit of patience to weed out the overpriced and the crap. I certainly would not waste my time on C24 and would focus on auctions (eBay and otherwise) and private sales.

Obviously, it helps if you know what you are looking at. If you're new to vintage Rolex, it can take a lot of time to recognize the watches you want to avoid (which will be most of them at lower price points), while people with experience can scroll through the listings and eliminate the junk in a few seconds. Start by narrowing down your parameters so you can study a few references carefully. Do you want Perpetual (automatic) or Precision (hand-winding)? Date or no-date? Are there certain styles of dial and/or hand-set that are important to you? Etc.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by kiwiAaron

Hi,

Looking to purchase my first Rolex.

I have a budget to $2500USD which puts me at entry level and used obviously (note: I have three kids, work for a church, live in an expensive city and it's taken me a while already to squirrel away that much on a gratuitous purchase - so increasing my budget isn't an option).

On eBay and C24 there are watches at the price point. Almost all are Oyster, Oysterdate and a few Air kings - which is fine, I love those watches. I've read posts on what to look for in a vintage watch etc i.e. the importance of 'buying the seller' etc.

My question is this - what would do faced with the choice between these two options
1. An okay looking Oysterdate/Air-King with original bracelet
2. OR... An Oysterdate/Air-King with a better looking dial (condition and/or color) but no original bracelet (so perhaps a third part leather one)

Assuming both watches are mechanically sound.

Is there any conventional wisdom around this?

Welcome Aaron.

No conventional wisdom, but work from the basis that the 19mm bracelet is merely a c $350-500 accoutrement that's all but it's always nice if you can snaffle one on a watch.

$2500 should get you a nice manual 6694/6426 or an Auto Perpetual reasonably easily on a bracelet I'd have thought if you go for a std dial batten dial in say most common silver...., but being flexible is the key and not paying retail shop money a big factor as often 35-50% over-optimistic retail pricing is not uncommon on 34mm, and you don't need the safety of a vintage retailer quite so much on these models as less fakery/shenanigans this end of the mkt I've found.

$0.99 start auctions on E bay are esp good on 34mm I've found as everyone is not falling over themselves to outbid each other and buy, as they are on other hitherto more fashionable sort after pieces.

C24 has it place imho on say hard to value Tudor, Jumbo, Integrales etc, but not on cheaper Rolex/Tudor 34mm pieces as sellers (usually private at the sub £2,200 mark, over-value / hike up pricing on their beloved and doted on pieces.

Good luck and post up anything that catches your eye .

[llm3000]

If you can go for a special dial at your budget, go for it. The bracelet is not that big of a deal and can always purchase separately at a reasonable price if you really want one, and when your next saving ready.

[502 to Right]

Do you really want a 34mm vintage watch? If yes, that's fantastic. But if you are choosing this because it's the only Rolex you can afford at this time, I would reconsider. There are a lot of really great new (or newer) watches that you can buy for $2,500 or under.

[kiwiAaron]

Thanks for the comments so far.

My homework/learning is:
[*]If the right watch comes up, don't be too worried if the original strap is not included[*]Focus in on a few references - 6694, 1500, 5500, 1002, 6426 I think it'll be (have I forgotten one?)[*]Decide on preferences (date, no date etc) to help make the decision[*]Spend some time on eBay et al and get a feel for prices and learn to distinguish crap from non crap[*]If I find something I like - put it up here for input.

[kiwiAaron]

Originally Posted by 502 to Right

Do you really want a 34mm vintage watch? If yes, that's fantastic. But if you are choosing this because it's the only Rolex you can afford at this time, I would reconsider. There are a lot of really great new (or newer) watches that you can buy for $2,500 or under.

I'd love to hear more - what are you thinking?

[winst]

It can be a bit of a minefield on the older watches. You could get a watch with an original bracelet, but it could require a costly rebuild. If you go for a 6426 or 6694, try & make sure it has the later 1220/1225 movement as Rolex will still service those for about £850. The 1210/1215 movements are classed as vintage by them and are a ridiculous cost of over £1500 to service. 6426’s & 6694’s are lovely watches, really slim as they are Manual wind and seem to wear bigger than their 34mm sizing possibly due to having plexiglass crystals. The 34mm Air Kings definitely wear a bit smaller, but if you could get a later 14000M, they are automatics with the bulletproof 3130 movement in and a Sapphire Crystal. I had one serviced by Rolex recently for about £650 including a new Sapphire Crystal.

That said, these are all still older watches, that could be quite costly for you to maintain / get to a good condition. I strongly recommend considering either a brand new 36mm / 39mm Tudor 1926 on bracelet which would include 5 years warranty, or a Used Tudor Black Bay 36 on bracelet that could be bought then serviced by Rolex / Tudor RSC come back looking like new & have a 2 year warranty on it still within your budget. They are both excellent watches that would last a lifetime with many of the attributes & DNA of the older Rolex Oysters but with the advantage of significantly better solid end link bracelets and improved clasps.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by 502 to Right

Do you really want a 34mm vintage watch? If yes, that's fantastic. But if you are choosing this because it's the only Rolex you can afford at this time, I would reconsider. There are a lot of really great new (or newer) watches that you can buy for $2,500 or under.

Good question, and the same goes for posting in the vintage sub-forum. Do you really want a vintage watch, or is it purely a budget issue? As @winst mentioned, an old watch is likely to need a movement service and possibly unknown repairs.

[502 to Right]

I remember this video from years ago. Six to be exact. Wow, does time fly.

It's aimed at the Datejust but is applicable here as well. From a watch dealer advising people not to buy a Datejust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FXsUFuKxDQ&t=1s

[502 to Right]

Originally Posted by kiwiAaron

I'd love to hear more - what are you thinking?

Ideally, what type of watch are you wanting? Dress watch, dive watch, all purpose watch? What size do you prefer?

Some brands that come to mind that are quality and in your price range for a new watch are Oris, Longines, Tissot, Hamilton, Certina, Mido, Rado, Frederique Constant, Montblanc, and Christopher Ward. You could also find some decent pre-owned Omega and Tudor watches at the $2,500 price point.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by kiwiAaron

Thanks for the comments so far.

My homework/learning is:
[*]If the right watch comes up, don't be too worried if the original strap is not included[*]Focus in on a few references - 6694, 1500, 5500, 1002, 6426 I think it'll be (have I forgotten one?)[*]Decide on preferences (date, no date etc) to help make the decision[*]Spend some time on eBay et al and get a feel for prices and learn to distinguish crap from non crap[*]If I find something I like - put it up here for input.

Affirmative - Our work is done.....

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by 502 to Right

I remember this video from years ago. Six to be exact. Wow, does time fly.

It's aimed at the Datejust but is applicable here as well. From a watch dealer advising people not to buy a Datejust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FXsUFuKxDQ&t=1s

Thank goodness you can play these videos at 2x speed.

[Tubeguy]

Do you want a vintage look? Like a watch that has miles on it? Or the name Rolex? Or? Maybe spell out your desires and people can chime in.

For $2500 you can get a Zenith El Primero Chronograph. Such a beautiful watch and a great size. And the movement is fantastic. Back in the day when I was forging ahead in life an El Primero Moonphase was amongst the first and best purchases I ever made. I still own it.

For $2500, you get a in-house movement used in the Rolex Daytona as well as some Panerai models.

Here's a real nice one https://www.chrono24.com/watch/MTK8X9

[kiwiAaron]

Thanks for all the input.

To address some of your issues/questions - basically, I have my heart set on a Rolex (or Omega). I looked up some of the watches you all suggested, and they looked great, but just didn't feel the same pull as I do with other watches (hard to quantify but I'm sure you all know what I mean). I'm going to reach out to my local watchmaker thats well respected in Vancouver (Otto Friedl) and see what he has to say about servicing costs etc. I also just like old things - especially old things that I can make functional and useful.

there is a listing for a AirKing that appears to be properly serviced (scroll through the photos to see disassembly image). Pretty watch, in budget, and 'appears' to be ready to go (from Cadran Patiné) - can't post a link as I am new to the forum

This is the scenario I am after. But perhaps I am missing something - happy to learn.

Outside the Rolex, I really like the 90's Brosnon Omega (2531.80). So a very different watch, but a great movement from what I can tell and would be a robust and great daily wearer. You can find these around the $2500-$3k mark if you look hard.

[hotp0pcorn]

Originally Posted by winst

It can be a bit of a minefield on the older watches. You could get a watch with an original bracelet, but it could require a costly rebuild. If you go for a 6426 or 6694, try & make sure it has the later 1220/1225 movement as Rolex will still service those for about £850. The 1210/1215 movements are classed as vintage by them and are a ridiculous cost of over £1500 to service. 6426’s & 6694’s are lovely watches, really slim as they are Manual wind and seem to wear bigger than their 34mm sizing possibly due to having plexiglass crystals. The 34mm Air Kings definitely wear a bit smaller, but if you could get a later 14000M, they are automatics with the bulletproof 3130 movement in and a Sapphire Crystal. I had one serviced by Rolex recently for about £650 including a new Sapphire Crystal.

my vote goes to Airking 14000 or preferbably 14000M with newer movment. Great piece to start, with great movement.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Thank goodness you can play these videos at 2x speed.

Indeed, that was a 12 minute filibuster-wafflethon, with a 30 sec merited message in there somewhere !

[kiwiAaron]

Originally Posted by winst

It can be a bit of a minefield on the older watches. You could get a watch with an original bracelet, but it could require a costly rebuild. If you go for a 6426 or 6694, try & make sure it has the later 1220/1225 movement as Rolex will still service those for about £850. The 1210/1215 movements are classed as vintage by them and are a ridiculous cost of over £1500 to service. 6426’s & 6694’s are lovely watches, really slim as they are Manual wind and seem to wear bigger than their 34mm sizing possibly due to having plexiglass crystals. The 34mm Air Kings definitely wear a bit smaller, but if you could get a later 14000M, they are automatics with the bulletproof 3130 movement in and a Sapphire Crystal. I had one serviced by Rolex recently for about £650 including a new Sapphire Crystal.

That said, these are all still older watches, that could be quite costly for you to maintain / get to a good condition. I strongly recommend considering either a brand new 36mm / 39mm Tudor 1926 on bracelet which would include 5 years warranty, or a Used Tudor Black Bay 36 on bracelet that could be bought then serviced by Rolex / Tudor RSC come back looking like new & have a 2 year warranty on it still within your budget. They are both excellent watches that would last a lifetime with many of the attributes & DNA of the older Rolex Oysters but with the advantage of significantly better solid end link bracelets and improved clasps.

I emailed my trusted watch repair guy (very reputable here in Vancouver) he says "All of these movements are still easily serviceable but yes Rolex has started cutting off regular service on some of their older calibres and are requiring “restoration Service” in Switzerland. So, if you want local official Rolex service done on these watches then you will need to get a watch from after the mid 1970’s. We service these earlier watches all the time without difficulty and have parts in stock in most cases. The only caution I can offer is to watch out for previous water intrusion as this is the one thing that can destroy a watch movement. I would not be too concerned about the watches age or what movement it has as long as it has been serviced regularly and is running when you get it, then it should be fine. It should also be said that we charge the same service price regardless of age and in general the part cost is the same for older watches as it is for new models." He charges $500 for a service.

[77T]

Originally Posted by kiwiAaron

He charges $500 for a service.

I've read this thread since it started and thought my input would be superfluous as many chimed-in with good pointers on choosing a budget friendly Rolex model.

Your watchmaker's service price is about half of what it would cost for the RSC at Rolex to do your first service. And could cost more if your purchase had non-OEM parts on it (that you must bring into compliance for RSC work). Vintage watches can acquire such parts over their life with different owners.

That leads me to a ticklish point...could you afford the TCO over the long haul?

TCO: Total Cost of Ownership regretfully catches people out if not considered beforehand.

About every 10 years after the initial service you'll repeat servicing cost at much higher prices as parts become more scarce.

That's the tangible element.

There are some intangible TCO elements:
Would parishioners symbolically wonder about a Rolex?
Would other costs of living suffer?
Is Rolex a substitute for a lost social goal?

All the above offered in the spirit of TRF friendliness. Not directly on topic - but just one harmonic removed.

Not trying to elicit any negative reaction - often we don't know why a luxury brand beckons. Reminds me of 2 lines from the holiday movie classic, "The Bishop's Wife".

Niven’s character persists saying, “I was praying for a cathedral!”

“No, Henry,” Grant says. “You were praying for guidance.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[502 to Right]

Originally Posted by 77T

That leads me to a ticklish point...could you afford the TCO over the long haul?

TCO: Total Cost of Ownership regretfully catches people out if not considered beforehand.

I was watching the 2006 James Bond movie Casino Royale recently and several non-Bond characters drive Range Rovers. Since I've recently been in the market for a new vehicle, on a whim I looked at the current market price of a 2006 Range Rover and was shocked to see how low it was. But after some internet research I found this quote that made me laugh out loud:

"There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Range Rover."

[forgedblades]

Or this one "Since 1948 turning owners into mechanics"