OPinion on 16700 hands: Are they original?

[Tubeguy]

Hey folks

I saw this 16700 that looks pretty nice. Still has a worn sticker on the back, box, papers, but looking closer the hands, while they don't look new, the patina doesn't seem to match.

Supposedly it has never been polished. Sorry I don't have more pics to upload that help more. The marks on the dial are dust on the crystal.

[Dan S]

Based on the dramatic mismatch of lume in hands and dial, I would certainly not believe that they started life together. Without more information from you, it's hard to say much more. As you probably know by now, you will get the best feedback if you provide comprehensive information and photos, instead of portioning it out bit by bit, which can be frustrating.

[springer]

For me, the hands are too white when compared to the aged - yellow - dial markers. While a slight variation in color is possible between hand color and marker color, I personally consider this more than a slight variation which would indicate to me that they were changed at some point in time.

It is not unusual to find older models where the hands have been changed due to rust, excessive corrosion, or missing lume. Below is a GMT from from the later 1980s.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Hard to say. Hands and hour markers are known to patina differently. Maybe, maybe not. That said, they are a bit "white" in my eyes as well.

$.02

[Tubeguy]

@Dan S Yes I'm sorry there weren't more pictures. I didn't want to link the watch, but will now since they're holding it

I had a brand new 16700 I bought earlier in January, and FedEx has lost it. I'm beyond pissed. The hands do have some mild age spots.

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/rolex...enqGcMAA%3D%3D


Thank you Springer and 0nly5iv3Digits.

[Dan S]

Looks nice except for the hands. That mismatch would bother me every time I looked at the watch.

[GGGMT]

Not bueno. Easy pass.


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[Tubeguy]

I just got this message from the seller. I for one don't believe it.

He states:

"If a 1989-1993 watch has the same patina between dial and hands, one of the two are colored to match"

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Tubeguy

I just got this message from the seller. I for one don't believe it.

He states:

"If a 1989-1993 watch has the same patina between dial and hands, one of the two are colored to match"

True or not, do you find the watch appealing? And if not, why are you bothering to communicate with the seller? Are you planning to buy the watch and then relume or replace the hands?

[TimeToGo]

.
Well there is room to believe. I would even go back a couple more years, 1987ish, where the hands do not patina as fast as the dial plots on these models. So yes, it is very possible.

Now, the example that you have posted appears extreme. If the watch is a safe queen, you would have patina akin to the plots and "at least" some patina on the hands - not necessarily matching.

So that is why you are getting the answers that you are getting. Hard to make any definite conclusions based on one picture.

I do not see the big issue, if you do not like the contrast, do not buy the watch or buy the watch and have the hands color matched.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

.
I do not see the big issue, if you do not like the contrast, do not buy the watch or buy the watch and have the hands color matched.

Exactly. Thank you.

It's impossible to prove that the hands are original, but even if someone proved that to you beyond a shadow of a doubt, would that make you suddenly like the way it looks?

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Tubeguy

I just got this message from the seller. I for one don't believe it.

He states:

"If a 1989-1993 watch has the same patina between dial and hands, one of the two are colored to match"

That’s utter nonsense. Yes, there is occasionally a slight tritium patina difference on original dial/hands, but there are also plenty of watches from that time period that match perfectly with original tritium confirmed, down to the bezel pearl.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Tubeguy

I just got this message from the seller. I for one don't believe it.

He states:

"If a 1989-1993 watch has the same patina between dial and hands, one of the two are colored to match"

That sounds like a "dealer mantra" to sell a watch and is not true. A significant difference between hand and dial patina is not normal. As I mentioned earlier, for me, the hands were obviously changed at some time in the past.

Who is this faux expert dealer? Let's share his name.

[shaunylw]

If you’re looking for a 16700, try jacek at tropical watch. He will get you exactly what you want.


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[psifox]

Difficult to know for sure but the hand actually looks neat for a vintage watch.

[gates]

If you buy it and want the hands matched give Phillip Ridley a call he can hook you up - he squared away a 1665 mkII for me - perfect match - btw there is no way those hands came on that watch...imho of course.

[Andad]

Has that bracelet been re-brushed?

[Tubeguy]

Originally Posted by springer

That sounds like a "dealer mantra" to sell a watch and is not true. A significant difference between hand and dial patina is not normal. As I mentioned earlier, for me, the hands were obviously changed at some time in the past.

Who is this faux expert dealer? Let's share his name.

Hey, I don't want to bust his nuts; I'm just asking for an opinion.

I posted the sales thread from Chrono24 above, but anything he shared with me ... he has his opinion as everyone does. So sending him negative messages is bad mojo.

I searched and found a Timezone UK thread that said, "Yeah, it can happen," as well as a thread here.

Looking really close, you can see some faint signs of patina. But as Dan and a couple of others have said, it might bug me.

The cause of patina (UV vs no UV) is a mystery...at least having it in the sun or not. From what I read, Tritium watches exposed to a lot of light seems to bleach it?
My 1989 16610 I bought new, and wore it outside, to the beach, in the water, and it has mild patina.

I think I mentioned I bought a new old stock 16700 from a dealer I know, and Fedex has lost it in Memphis. Last scan was Jan 12.
We ship hundreds of packages a month with them, so I raised hell with my account manager and they are assigning another person to work on it. So I'm trying to salve my wound by replacing it.

Much thanks to the people commenting. - Kevin

[TuRo]

Seems fairly unlikely to me. They are tritium and there is some oil/detritus build up near pinion, but that's quite a mismatch.

[TimeToGo]

.
The dealer out of Italy is clearly identified on the C24 listing..

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by springer

That sounds like a "dealer mantra" to sell a watch and is not true. A significant difference between hand and dial patina is not normal. As I mentioned earlier, for me, the hands were obviously changed at some time in the past.

Who is this faux expert dealer? Let's share his name.

This.

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

.
The dealer out of Italy is clearly identified on the C24 listing..

Well that explains it then. I’d avoid this watch.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Tubeguy

Hey, I don't want to bust his nuts; I'm just asking for an opinion.

I posted the sales thread from Chrono24 above, but anything he shared with me ... he has his opinion as everyone does. So sending him negative messages is bad mojo.

I searched and found a Timezone UK thread that said, "Yeah, it can happen," as well as a thread here.

Looking really close, you can see some faint signs of patina. But as Dan and a couple of others have said, it might bug me.

The cause of patina (UV vs no UV) is a mystery...at least having it in the sun or not. From what I read, Tritium watches exposed to a lot of light seems to bleach it?
My 1989 16610 I bought new, and wore it outside, to the beach, in the water, and it has mild patina.

I think I mentioned I bought a new old stock 16700 from a dealer I know, and Fedex has lost it in Memphis. Last scan was Jan 12.
We ship hundreds of packages a month with them, so I raised hell with my account manager and they are assigning another person to work on it. So I'm trying to salve my wound by replacing it.

Much thanks to the people commenting. - Kevin

Kevin, it appears that your sentiments, based on this post, indicate you have formed an opinion based on your knowledge from previous ownership and experience with a watch along with other knowledge from internet research regarding mismatched hands which seems contrary to the experience and knowledge of other collectors here.

Since you don't appear to have much of an issue with mismatched hands based on your knowledge and previous experience, I wouldn't be too concerned with the mismatched hands on this GMT 16700 nor be concerned with the opinions of other collectors that do not agree with you.