Rolex wood dial repair

[ravenhome777]

Hello - I had picked up this Rolex wood dial. Is it worth repairing the chip on the edge in your opinion?

If it is worth repairing, I was thinking about attempting a DIY repair. If something goes wrong with the repair, I'd rather be angry at myself, than a dial restorer. :-)

I was thinking about taking a razor sharp knife and slowly passing along the edge of the chip in very light passes until it falls off, and then using UV epoxy in a very light coat to seal repair.

I was going to test the UV epoxy on a scrap piece of mahogany first to see if the shine matches the varnish on the dial. Not sure if it's a matte finish or a glossy finish. If the shine doesn't match exactly, I might just leave it alone, and not attempt the repair.

I was also wondering about the effect of humidity with these wood dials. Not sure if they're susceptible to warping in humid weather. If so, perhaps I should leave it in a sealed zip lock baggy to prevent humidity damaging the dial.



I'm not sure how to add images to this post, but here is a picture on imgur:

https://imgur.com/a/AN1HxRc

[ravenhome777]

Here is a picture of the full dial:

https://imgur.com/a/wDf54Xl

I just purchased it on ebay, so I haven't had a chance to investigate it extensively. I'll look closer once it arrives.

[crowncollection]

Good luck your brave. I would like to see the results


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[miamiclay]

I can’t see quite what the condition is now. Has someone already tried to glue a chip on, or is that whiter “fringe” just a little delamination of the lacquer, or … ?

[ravenhome777]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

I can’t see quite what the condition is now. Has someone already tried to glue a chip on, or is that whiter “fringe” just a little delamination of the lacquer, or … ?

I think it's just a little delamination. It looks like the varnish coating might have gotten pulled up when someone was trying to remove the dial. I can still see the veneer underneath, which looks to be fully intact.

I was assuming that it was from a 18038. chatgpt says you can tell by the position of the feet:

https://imgur.com/a/lXtfsMt

[ravenhome777]

OK, it is for an 18038 because it has gold surrounds.

the fact that your wood dial has gold surrounds (metal frames around the day and date windows) is a key indicator that it was made for a more modern Rolex Day-Date, not the vintage 1803.

�� Based on That Detail Alone:
Your dial is most likely from a:

✅ Ref. 18038 (late 1970s–1988)
or
✅ Ref. 18238 (1988–early 2000s)

�� Why Gold Surrounds Matter:
Rolex only started framing the day and date apertures in gold when they moved to sapphire crystal models (starting with the 18038 series).

Earlier models like the 1803 (with acrylic crystals) had plain, unframed cutouts — framing them would’ve conflicted with the slimmer, vintage proportions.

��️ Here’s How You Might Narrow It Down Further:
1. Look at the Dial Feet (Back of Dial)
18038 → Fits Caliber 3055 (quickset date only)

18238 → Fits Caliber 3155 (double quickset)

These have different dial foot positions, so a watchmaker (or a clear photo) could confirm which movement it's for.

2. Applied Rolex Crown or Printed?
Applied crown and text = Usually 18038 or 18238

Printed crown/logo = Sometimes still found on early 18038s, but not 18238

3. Font Style & Finish
18038 wood dials often have a more natural, matte finish

18238 wood dials are typically more refined, sometimes with glossy lacquer

��️ If You’re Planning to Use the Dial:
To fit it correctly:

Use a 18038 case (Cal. 3055) if you suspect it's from the late '70s or '80s

Or a 18238 case (Cal. 3155) if you’re working with a newer movement (double quickset)

If you’re unsure, you can measure the dial foot spacing or compare it to known examples — or share a photo, and I’ll help identify it more precisely.

Let me know if you'd like help verifying it — or finding a case it’ll fit!

[miamiclay]

Maybe ChatGPT is hallucinating again?

Correct about the gold frames/surrounds, but 1803 wood dials look very different anyway - Straight grain, open pore wood vs. burl on the 5-digits.

Incorrect about the dial feet - AFAIK, 180xx and 182xx dials are structurally identical and interchangeable (true of all DD dials, not just wood).

Incorrect about applied/printed - I don’t recall ever seeing any DD with the coronet printed rather than applied (4- or 5-digit, wood dial or otherwise; even Buckley dials have applied coronets). Some text can be applied on little rectangular plaques, but I think those may be only Crown Collection / Masterpiece models (181xx or 183xx)

Idk about the 182xx dials being glossier than 180xx, I doubt I’ve ever compared them unmounted.

As for your original question, humidity might not hurt, but it certainly isn’t going to help anything. I would store it in an impermeable (glass, metal, hard plastic) case with a packet of desiccant (ziplocs are not airtight).

If you attempt the repair yourself, the most difficult match may be the degree of gloss. However, once it is mounted beneath a crystal, I expect one spot of slightly mismatched or missing gloss would not be visible to the naked eye, especially at the edge.

[suligeo]

Leave it Like this, put it in a watch and join it. You will Not See much of the issue


https://www.instagram.com/vintage_georgex/

[wcgreiner]

Wood dials are tricky—that chip gives it character, but if you DIY, go insanely slow. Maybe test the epoxy on scrap first. Humidity’s a real concern too—silica gel packs in the box could help. Proceed with caution!

[greekbum]

ive seen one repaired they used a thin piece of veneer that matched

[joli160]

Brave man,

As a hobby I restore antique furniture and do a lot of woodwork, including repairs on veneer and refinishing.
17th and a8th century veneer is rather thick which makes it easy.
Working on something as fine and delicate as this dial is not something I would even consider.

Rolex applied multiple layers of lacquer so perhaps it is only one layer which has peeled off.
Magnifying glass with good illumination and a steady hand is a must have.
Good luck

[ravenhome777]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

Maybe ChatGPT is hallucinating again?

Correct about the gold frames/surrounds, but 1803 wood dials look very different anyway - Straight grain, open pore wood vs. burl on the 5-digits.

Incorrect about the dial feet - AFAIK, 180xx and 182xx dials are structurally identical and interchangeable (true of all DD dials, not just wood).

Incorrect about applied/printed - I don’t recall ever seeing any DD with the coronet printed rather than applied (4- or 5-digit, wood dial or otherwise; even Buckley dials have applied coronets). Some text can be applied on little rectangular plaques, but I think those may be only Crown Collection / Masterpiece models (181xx or 183xx)

Idk about the 182xx dials being glossier than 180xx, I doubt I’ve ever compared them unmounted.

As for your original question, humidity might not hurt, but it certainly isn’t going to help anything. I would store it in an impermeable (glass, metal, hard plastic) case with a packet of desiccant (ziplocs are not airtight).

If you attempt the repair yourself, the most difficult match may be the degree of gloss. However, once it is mounted beneath a crystal, I expect one spot of slightly mismatched or missing gloss would not be visible to the naked eye, especially at the edge.

Thanks for all your replies. This is very helpful.

In your opinion, would this dial fit on a 18038 Day Date? That was my initial assumption.

I'm eventually going to purchase a Day Date (once I save up enough $$) so I want to make sure I purchase the correct reference. :-) That would be a big mistake if I purchased the wrong reference and the dial didn't fit the watch.

[ravenhome777]

I received the dial yesterday. It looks great. Nicer than I thought it would be.

I might just leave it as is, instead of messing around with it. It probably won't make much of a difference once it's under the crystal.

It sounds like Bob Ridley is a popular watch maker on this site. I'll need to have the dials switched out and have the movement serviced, so maybe I'll send it down to Bob for this work. My local watch maker retired so I need to find someone else.

[miamiclay]

Originally Posted by ravenhome777

Would this dial fit on a 18038 Day Date? That was my initial assumption.

Yes, no problem.
They look nice on a strap, too
.

[ravenhome777]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

Yes, no problem.
They look nice on a strap, too
.

Whew! That's a beauty. Is that from your personal collection?

That dial looks very close to mine. I think it might be mahogany veneer, but not sure.

What are your thoughts about leather straps. Do you find they get stinky after awhile if you sweat into them.

I've never been a leather strap guy. I have a couple watches with leather straps, but I haven't found myself comfortable with wearing them yet. I like that "clink" noise you get, when you put your wrist on a table with a stainless jubilee.

But I do like the way leather straps look. If I go the leather strap route, I'm going to need to source a genuine Rolex clasp for the strap. I haven't scoured Ebay yet for them. I'm sure they're out there somewhere.

If I find a brand that I like, I'm probably going to need to buy about 10 of them, and as they get stinky I'll just throw them out and transfer over the Rolex clasp to the next one. I kind of view leather straps as "disposable" somewhat. Not sure if I'm looking at this the right way. Do you find that they're kind of disposable?

My other hang-up is that I have a cool skin complexion so I don't really look good in gold. If I got the full president bracelet, it won't look right on my skin complexion, but I guess I'll just push through that and get over it. I'm probably way overthinking it.

[miamiclay]

Yes, that one’s mine.

I find that they get worn/frayed before any stink. I don’t wear it so often that I’ve worried about replacing them, but even if you wore it every day, I think 10 straps would be more than enough to last a lifetime! If it were me, I wouldn’t buy more than one or two - By the time you’re ready to replace those, your tastes might have changed.

[ravenhome777]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

Yes, that one’s mine.

I find that they get worn/frayed before any stink. I don’t wear it so often that I’ve worried about replacing them, but even if you wore it every day, I think 10 straps would be more than enough to last a lifetime! If it were me, I wouldn’t buy more than one or two - By the time you’re ready to replace those, your tastes might have changed.

That's a nice one. Great find.

That's my favorite veneer out of all of the wood dials, for sure. I'm not sure if that's mahogany, but it has a nice warm tone to it.

Here's a question you might know. Did the wood dials ever come with a bark president bracelet? I was contemplating getting a bark bracelet, but not sure of bark + wood dial is over the top.

I was also considering hunting for an oxidized president bracelet. I think that might be cooler than a bark bracelet. A little more understated, but still visually interesting.

[ravenhome777]

Sorry... One more question. I'd like either an Italian or Spanish off-white Day/Date wheel.

The watch I end up picking up will most likely have an English Day/Date wheel, just because English watches seem to be more common and readily available.

Is it reasonably easy to source an OEM Italian or Spanish wheel? Not sure how readily available they are.

[springer]

Originally Posted by ravenhome777

Sorry... One more question. I'd like either an Italian or Spanish off-white Day/Date wheel.

The watch I end up picking up will most likely have an English Day/Date wheel, just because English watches seem to be more common and readily available.

Is it reasonably easy to source an OEM Italian or Spanish wheel? Not sure how readily available they are.

If you can't find a set of 18038 Spanish day-date wheels, send me a message with your contact details and maybe I can help source set.

[ravenhome777]

Originally Posted by springer

If you can't find a set of 18038 Spanish day-date wheels, send me a message with your contact details and maybe I can help source set.

OK - Will do. Thanks Springer. I've bought from you before, and you have always supplied great parts. Much appreciated.

[miamiclay]

Originally Posted by ravenhome777

That's my favorite veneer out of all of the wood dials, for sure. I'm not sure if that's mahogany, but it has a nice warm tone to it.

Here's a question you might know. Did the wood dials ever come with a bark president bracelet? I was contemplating getting a bark bracelet, but not sure of bark + wood dial is over the top.

Idk if it’s the “African mahogany” or walnut, but I believe it’s one of those two. Birch is usually lighter colored and may have some chatoyance, and madrone usually has a distinctly small, tight pattern to the burl.

Yes, there certainly are wood dial DDs with bark decoration - Personally, I think it’s a great look. A correct bark DD will have both the bezel and bracelet center links “barked” - For a 5-digit yellow gold bark DD, you’d be looking at either a 18078 or a 18248.

On wood dials generally, you might also like these two threads -

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=750086

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=750843

Also, note that there are two iterations of the bark bezel - Earlier ones are all bark, later ones have flat spots at each hour.

[ravenhome777]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

Idk if it’s the “African mahogany” or walnut, but I believe it’s one of those two. Birch is usually lighter colored and may have some chatoyance, and madrone usually has a distinctly small, tight pattern to the burl.

Yes, there certainly are wood dial DDs with bark decoration - Personally, I think it’s a great look. A correct bark DD will have both the bezel and bracelet center links “barked” - For a 5-digit yellow gold bark DD, you’d be looking at either a 18078 or a 18248.

On wood dials generally, you might also like these two threads -

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=750086

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=750843

Also, note that there are two iterations of the bark bezel - Earlier ones are all bark, later ones have flat spots at each hour.

Oh yes, I had never noticed the flat spots at the hour marks until you mentioned it. That's interesting.

I think I like the all bark models.

I am kind of leaning towards the Morellis style bracelet. I know that's a bit more rare, so it will probably be pricier and more difficult to source. I'll have keep my eyes peeled for it. Do you know if the Morellis style bracelet was produced with the 18038? I had asked chatgpt, but it didn't give me a clear answer, and I also know it hallucinates a little bit when you get into the Rolex weeds.

Here is an interesting video:
https://oliverandclarke.com/products...l-w-box-papers

[miamiclay]

Originally Posted by ravenhome777

I am kind of leaning towards the Morellis style bracelet. I know that's a bit more rare, so it will probably be pricier and more difficult to source. I'll have keep my eyes peeled for it. Do you know if the Morellis style bracelet was produced with the 18038?

Apologies for the delayed reply, somehow I missed your post.

I don’t know for certain whether there are 5-digit Morelli’s DDs, but I strongly doubt it. If there were any such, presumably they should have their own reference number (like 1811 for the 4-digit Morelli’s and 18078/18248 for the SQ/DQ barks), and I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of one. Even among the 4-digits, Morelli’s are *much* rarer than bark models.

Keep in mind that only the bezel and bracelet carry these decorations, so one does occasionally find a ‘regular’ DD with those bits swapped in - Always check the case’s reference number to confirm whether it was born that way.

I’ve seen that watch from O&C - If it didn’t have the paint deterioration around the lume plots, I’d’ve been sorely tempted!

[crowncollection]

Hi there is no 5 digit morellis finish


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ravenhome777]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

Apologies for the delayed reply, somehow I missed your post.

I don’t know for certain whether there are 5-digit Morelli’s DDs, but I strongly doubt it. If there were any such, presumably they should have their own reference number (like 1811 for the 4-digit Morelli’s and 18078/18248 for the SQ/DQ barks), and I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of one. Even among the 4-digits, Morelli’s are *much* rarer than bark models.

Keep in mind that only the bezel and bracelet carry these decorations, so one does occasionally find a ‘regular’ DD with those bits swapped in - Always check the case’s reference number to confirm whether it was born that way.

I’ve seen that watch from O&C - If it didn’t have the paint deterioration around the lume plots, I’d’ve been sorely tempted!

Thanks Miamiclay and crowncollection.

That's unfortunate that they phased out Morelli finish around the 5-digits production.

I suppose it would be sacrilege to buy a 18038 and have a jeweler apply a Morelli finish?

With that said, it doesn't look too difficult to apply. It looks like simple peck marks from a chisel.

[ravenhome777]

Chatgpt seems to think that this Morrellis finish is applied by sandblasting. I'm not so sure. To me it looks like it has been hand-done with a fine chisel.

Applying a Morellis finish to a watch band involves a specific type of textured, matte surface treatment that gives the metal a soft, almost silky appearance — somewhere between satin and bead-blasted. It's often seen on high-end watch components, and it's not something typically done at home due to the specialized tools and experience required.

Here’s a breakdown of what the process typically involves:

�� What is a Morellis Finish?
A fine, directional, matte finish applied using precision equipment.

Named after Morellato (sometimes confused as “Morellis”), but the term is used loosely in watch refinishing circles to describe a consistent, ultra-fine brush or blasted texture.

Think: smoother than standard brushed, more elegant than bead-blasted.

��️ Applying a Morellis Finish (Professional Method)
1. Surface Preparation
The band is disassembled and cleaned thoroughly.

Any scratches or imperfections are removed with fine abrasives or polishing compounds (if needed), ensuring a smooth base.

2. Micro-Abrasive Blasting
A micro-bead blasting machine or abrasive tumbler is used with:

Glass beads or ceramic media, very fine grade (e.g., 100-200 micron).

Low pressure (usually around 20–30 PSI) for a delicate touch.

The finish is applied evenly to avoid streaks or over-blasting.

3. Masking (if needed)
If you want a combination finish (e.g., polished edges and Morellis top surfaces), the polished areas are carefully masked to protect them during blasting.

4. Optional Clear Coat or Seal
Sometimes a protective clear coating (like PVD or DLC) is applied afterward to preserve the finish and reduce fingerprinting.

⚠️ Important Notes
This is not a DIY-friendly process unless you have access to a precision blasting cabinet and experience handling watch components.

Doing it incorrectly can ruin sharp edges or the structural integrity of the bracelet.

It's usually done by professional watch refinishers or case specialists (e.g., LA Watch Works, Rolliworks, or RSC).

�� Maintenance
Clean with a soft microfiber cloth and mild soapy water.

Avoid polishing compounds or rough cloths — they can ruin the fine matte texture.

If you're considering this for your own watch, I’d recommend taking it to a professional refinishing studio. Let me know the make and model of your watch — I can advise whether a Morellis-style finish suits it or recommend trusted specialists.

[ravenhome777]

Nevermind. Chatgpt came around and admitted that it is a hand-applied process:


does LA watch works describe how they do a morrellis finish?

ChatGPT said:
I couldn't find a detailed, publicly available description from LA WatchWorks specifically outlining their process for applying a "Morellis finish." Their website primarily highlights their general services, including movement restoration and case restoration, without delving into specific finishing techniques.
lawatchworks.com

However, based on industry knowledge, the "Morellis finish" is often associated with a hand-applied, cross-hatched texture on watch cases and bracelets. This finish is typically achieved through meticulous handwork, possibly involving tools like files, abrasives, or specialized hammers, to create a uniform, matte pattern. It's a labor-intensive process that requires significant skill and precision.
fratellowatches.com

If you're interested in this specific finish, I recommend reaching out directly to LA WatchWorks for more information. They may be able to provide insights into their techniques or even offer this service upon request.





Sources
You said:
I thought you just said that it wasn't a hand-applied process. I thought you said it was done through sandblasting?

ChatGPT said:
You're absolutely right to call that out — and thank you for pointing it out.

Let’s clarify the confusion:

�� Two Different Uses of “Morellis Finish” — And Why It’s Confusing
There are two distinct interpretations of the term “Morellis finish” in the watch world:

�� 1. Modern Watch Refinishers’ Use (e.g., on forums or modders)
This is where I initially went in my first response.

"Morellis finish" here is used informally to describe a fine, matte surface, achieved by micro-abrasive blasting or ultra-fine satin brushing.

Think of it like a soft bead-blasted or vapor-blasted look.

This type is not applied by hand with a chisel — it’s done in a controlled, machine-assisted environment.

It’s mostly modern slang and not officially tied to Rolex.

✅ Example: Watch modders or case refinishers referring to a “Morellis-style” finish as a subtle matte texture on stainless steel surfaces.

�� 2. Vintage Rolex “Morellis Finish” (Correct Historical Term)
This is what you were referring to — and it’s the correct original usage.

Found on vintage Rolex Day-Date 1811s and Datejust 1611s from the 1960s–1970s.

The finish is definitely hand-applied, often using chisels or engraving tools.

It produces a cross-hatched or florentine-style texture on the bezel, bracelet, or case.

✅ Example: The Rolex Day-Date Ref. 1811 with a hand-applied, cross-hatched bezel texture — this is the true, original Morellis finish.

�� Why the Mix-Up?
The term “Morellis” isn’t officially defined in Rolex literature, so over time, enthusiasts have applied it inconsistently.

Some refinishers use it as a catch-all for “fine matte textures,” while collectors and vintage purists refer to the hand-chiseled texture from specific Rolex models.

✅ Conclusion
You were right — the original Morellis finish is hand-applied, often with a chisel or engraving tool, and appears on certain vintage Rolex models. My earlier description leaned toward a modern reinterpretation sometimes used in refinishers’ circles.

Would you like a side-by-side photo comparison or info on how to request the authentic finish from a restoration specialist?



You said:
yes

ChatGPT said:
Apologies for any confusion in my earlier responses. Let's clarify the Morellis finish and its application, particularly in the context of Rolex watches.

�� Understanding the Morellis Finish
The Morellis finish is a distinctive hand-applied texture found on certain vintage Rolex models, notably the Day-Date Ref. 1811 and Datejust Ref. 1611. This finish is characterized by a fine, cross-hatched pattern, often described as a "silk-like" or "moire" texture. It's important to note that this finish is hand-applied, not achieved through sandblasting or other machine processes.

��️ Application Process
The application of the Morellis finish involves skilled craftsmanship, typically by Rolex artisans, using tools such as chisels or engraving tools. The process includes:

Surface Preparation: The metal surface is cleaned and prepared to ensure a smooth base.

Hand Engraving: Using fine chisels or engraving tools, artisans apply the cross-hatched pattern to the bezel and/or bracelet.

Finishing Touches: After engraving, the piece is cleaned and polished to highlight the texture.

This meticulous process results in a unique, tactile finish that distinguishes these models from others.

��️ Visual Examples
To better understand the Morellis finish, here are some examples of Rolex watches featuring this texture:

Rolex Day-Date Ref. 1811 (1972): This model showcases the Morellis finish on both the bezel and the center links of the President bracelet. The 36mm 18k yellow gold case is complemented by a black pie-pan dial with gilt details. The finish is deep and crisp, indicating minimal polishing over the years.

Rolex Datejust Ref. 1611 (1968): This Datejust features the Morellis finish on the bezel and center links of the Jubilee bracelet. The watch is paired with a stunning blue 'Shantung' dial, known for its silky texture that changes shades under different lighting conditions.

��️ Commissioning the Morellis Finish
If you're interested in acquiring a Rolex with the Morellis finish or commissioning a similar texture on a different model, consider the following steps:

Consult with Reputable Dealers: Reach out to dealers specializing in vintage Rolex watches, such as WatchWorks Haarlem or Amsterdam Vintage Watches, to inquire about available models or custom services.

Discuss Customization Options: If you own a Rolex and wish to apply a Morellis-like finish, consult with professional watch refinishing services. They can assess the feasibility and costs associated with such a customization.

Understand the Process: Ensure that the artisans or refinishing services use traditional hand-applied methods to achieve the desired texture, preserving the authenticity and value of the watch.

⚠️ Important Considerations
Authenticity: Ensure that any modifications or customizations are performed by skilled professionals to maintain the watch's integrity and value.

Value Impact: Customizations can affect the resale value of a watch. It's advisable to consult with experts before proceeding with significant alterations.

If you need further assistance or recommendations on reputable dealers or refinishing services, feel free to ask!

[ravenhome777]

It sounds like RolliWorks might be able to apply this type of a finish.

I'm a perfectionist. If I had it done, it would have to be done with the exact right type of chisel, with the cutting edge exactly to the thousandth of a millimeter correct to the chisel that Rolex originally used, along with the same depth, and patterning. It would also need to be the correct width apart for each chisel mark. It would be great if they had an example at hand to copy from.

It sounds like RolliWorks might be up for this type of precision work based on the other work I've seen them do.

[77T]

Originally Posted by ravenhome777

I'm a perfectionist.

IMHO, you would be better pleased by buying a genuine 1806 with Morellis finished head and bracelet. Since no two are alike, the ability to be precise to the .000's of a mm is impossible. The originals were all random handiwork.

For example, are the following correct? (i.e., OEM)

Originally Posted by ravenhome777

It sounds like RolliWorks might be up for this type of precision work based on the other work I've seen them do.

Not at all. The work you want done is more akin to custom jewelry embossing/engraving.

They might accept the challenge but Rolliworks would sub the work out - their core is watch repair and bracelet refurb's. And you'd have no way to control a random outcome.


That's why buying an original and selling off the wood dial is perhaps best path.


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[ravenhome777]

Originally Posted by 77T

IMHO, you would be better pleased by buying a genuine 1806 with Morellis finished head and bracelet. Since no two are alike, the ability to be precise to the .000's of a mm is impossible. The originals were all random handiwork.

For example, are the following correct? (i.e., OEM)









Not at all. The work you want done is more akin to custom jewelry embossing/engraving.

They might accept the challenge but Rolliworks would sub the work out - their core is watch repair and bracelet refurb's. And you'd have no way to control a random outcome.


That's why buying an original and selling off the wood dial is perhaps best path.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, if I ever wanted to resell it, it might destroy the resale value, because they would say that 18038 never came in a Morellis finish. That's something to think about.