Panerai 00005 & 104

[sleedawg]

So... those of you who are Paneristis. Is the 00005 that hard to find? I like the no date clean look. Too bad they don't make one in automatic. I'm also looking at a 104, because of the fact that it is an automatic and has the clean look but with the date. I believe the 104 has an in house movement whereas the 00005 is a modified ETA. So, I think I'd probably prefer the 104. But, I just like the darn looks of the 00005.

Any thoughts on the two watches? Is availability that limited?

[Teofilo]

If I was interested in a 44mm PAM, it would be the 104 for me.

[bimmer]

Just got a 104...was deciding between 104 and 48 as I wanted date and automatic. They are not always available, especially 104 as these two are the one of the few "entry" models that have automatic movement. If you want a clean look, look at 111 as well. They are a bit more but has a display caseback and looks very nice. I would have got one if I wasn't looking for an automatic. If you are not on a budget, go with a mid range model such as 88 or 90.

[seantk]

The 0005 use the OP XI movement which is ETA based

The 104 uses the automatic mechanical, exclusive Panerai OP III calibre which is Valjoux based. It is the same movement that is used in the Submersible series, which is the series that I like. I think the 104 is very nice

From http://www.paneristi.com

"The OP III is the workhorse of the Panerai line, and is featured in nearly all watches with no significant complications.

It is based on the Valjoux 7750-P1 and features

* 21 jewels
* Panerai personalisation on the bridges and rotor
* Glucydur balance
* 28,800 VPH
* Incabloc shock protection
* 42 hours power reserve

The movement measures 13 1/4 lignes.

It is certified with a C.O.S.C. chronometer certificate.

Its characteristic signature marks are small seconds at 9 and a date at 3"

Sean

[dman]

Fiver is a throwback to the roots and history of Panerai. Manual wind, logo on the dial and basic marina dial. The 104 is a contemporary of the old version.

All about what sings more to you. The fiver is more likely to be found on the wrist of Paneristi that look into the history and how the watch was originally used. The 104 is used more by guys that like the date and more day to day functionality of the auto movement and date.

Either one is a great choice

[sleedawg]

I was able to find a 104, but have been told the 00005 would be at least 4-6 weeks minimum and that the price increase would have already taken affect when it comes in. I really like the 00005, but at only $650 cheaper than I could get the 104 now, I put a deposit on the 104 and will be picking it up tomorrow. These things are ridiculous hard to find. Every dealer I spoke to in the SF area, and Vegas said they had like 4-5 in stock TOTAL. That's ridiculous. Oh well. Hope I don't regret not waiting for the 00005.

Thanks for all the advice!

[dman]

Originally Posted by sleedawg

I was able to find a 104, but have been told the 00005 would be at least 4-6 weeks minimum and that the price increase would have already taken affect when it comes in. I really like the 00005, but at only $650 cheaper than I could get the 104 now, I put a deposit on the 104 and will be picking it up tomorrow. These things are ridiculous hard to find. Every dealer I spoke to in the SF area, and Vegas said they had like 4-5 in stock TOTAL. That's ridiculous. Oh well. Hope I don't regret not waiting for the 00005.

Thanks for all the advice!

Huge congrats!! Wear it with Pride and PASSION!

Did I mention that the straps are the most fun part?

[vman]

Originally Posted by sleedawg

I was able to find a 104, but have been told the 00005 would be at least 4-6 weeks minimum and that the price increase would have already taken affect when it comes in. I really like the 00005, but at only $650 cheaper than I could get the 104 now, I put a deposit on the 104 and will be picking it up tomorrow. These things are ridiculous hard to find. Every dealer I spoke to in the SF area, and Vegas said they had like 4-5 in stock TOTAL. That's ridiculous. Oh well. Hope I don't regret not waiting for the 00005.

Thanks for all the advice!

Glad that you got it. Inability to get many PAMs plays in our favor. The brand is hot among people who like watches, but most folks on the street have no idea what it is. Makes a perfect sleeper watch. I like quality timepieces that do not scream "I spent some major $$$" and a PAM definitely fits that category. So far only one co-worker said "nice watch" to me and then he followed by "so what is it?" Love being under the radar :)

/v

[rpryan55]

Originally Posted by vman

Glad that you got it. Inability to get many PAMs plays in our favor. The brand is hot among people who like watches, but most folks on the street have no idea what it is. Makes a perfect sleeper watch. I like quality timepieces that do not scream "I spent some major $$$" and a PAM definitely fits that category. So far only one co-worker said "nice watch" to me and then he followed by "so what is it?" Love being under the radar :)

/v

Can I respectfully disagree here? I think more nefarious people can recognize a Panerai quicker than a Rolex. True, most "normal" people won't have a clue, but the people who you don't want noticing your watch DO know what a Panerai is, I think. Just my $0.02.

[harogers]

you will love the 104, and your right it does fly under the radar. I have one and its my daily wearer. No one ever gives it a second look, while when I wear my SS GMTc, I get the "must be nice" comment.

[dman]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

Can I respectfully disagree here? I think more nefarious people can recognize a Panerai quicker than a Rolex. True, most "normal" people won't have a clue, but the people who you don't want noticing your watch DO know what a Panerai is, I think. Just my $0.02.

What "type" of person are you referring too, if I may ask?

[rpryan55]

Originally Posted by dman

What "type" of person are you referring too, if I may ask?

Sure you can ask. When I say the "type" of person that 'you don't want to be noticing your watch' I mean, of course (and I assumed this was obvious), nefarious, watch-stealing thieves. Those people who, upon seeing a person with a nice watch, have the intention to steal it or to rob the owner of the watch of his possessions. I hope this answers your question.

[dman]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

Sure you can ask. When I say the "type" of person that 'you don't want to be noticing your watch' I mean, of course (and I assumed this was obvious), nefarious, watch-stealing thieves. Those people who, upon seeing a person with a nice watch, have the intention to steal it or to rob the owner of the watch of his possessions. I hope this answers your question.

So you are saying that "thieves" are more likely to be on the look out for a Panerai than a Rolex? Or that a Panerai is more recognizable than a Rolex?

The first theory I find interesting for a few reasons, one being that I have yet to read a sociological study backing up this fact and two that there are around 35-40K Panerai made a year and only a million or so Rolex.

And is there a watch more noticeable than a Rolex? I think not.

[rpryan55]

Originally Posted by dman

So you are saying that "thieves" are more likely to be on the look out for a Panerai than a Rolex? Or that a Panerai is more recognizable than a Rolex?

The first theory I find interesting for a few reasons, one being that I have yet to read a sociological study backing up this fact and two that there are around 35-40K Panerai made a year and only a million or so Rolex.

And is there a watch more noticeable than a Rolex? I think not.

I think that criminals who are on the lookout for wealthy targets would be more attuned to Panerai for the simple reason that they are far more unique looking than any Rolex. Unfortunately, Rolex has many, many imitators in the watch-making world, making a Rolex far more difficult to spot with any certainty. (This excepts the YG DD). Panerai is the watch of choice for the nouveau riche and for those with a great deal of money and the desire to follow fashion. I do not think (to get back to the original post) that the unique looking Panerai watch "flies under the radar" - on the contrary, I think it screams dollar signs to the nefarious. Is a Rolex Submariner widely seen by the general public as a status symbol? I think not - most people can't even recognize it as a Rolex.

As for "sociological " studies, well, let's look back at my original post. You did understand that "$0.02" meant that it was just my opinion, didn't you? You really didn't expect that "sociological studies" would be part of this thread, eh? Because I'd have to disappoint you - this all has been just my $0.02......

[dman]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

I think that criminals who are on the lookout for wealthy targets would be more attuned to Panerai for the simple reason that they are far more unique looking than any Rolex. Unfortunately, Rolex has many, many imitators in the watch-making world, making a Rolex far more difficult to spot with any certainty. (This excepts the YG DD). Panerai is the watch of choice for the nouveau riche and for those with a great deal of money and the desire to follow fashion. I do not think (to get back to the original post) that the unique looking Panerai watch "flies under the radar" - on the contrary, I think it screams dollar signs to the nefarious. Is a Rolex Submariner widely seen by the general public as a status symbol? I think not - most people can't even recognize it as a Rolex.

As for "sociological " studies, well, let's look back at my original post. You did understand that "$0.02" meant that it was just my opinion, didn't you? You really didn't expect that "sociological studies" would be part of this thread, eh? Because I'd have to disappoint you - this all has been just my $0.02......

Well, since you are aware what the nouveau riche are into, I assumed you had the pulse of some study. I can assume that you are of the camp that this Panerai/big watch fad will soon pass too? I actually hope it does, since none of the Rolex I had are worth over 3X it's list price only 4 years after it was made. That can only be a good thing for me if that bubble bursts. BTW/ people have been saying that is going to happen for years now, any guess on the actual date?

Fact for me is that I have been wearing Panerai almost exclusively for three years and have seen only a four or five in the wild in that time, two of those were hideous fakes at that. I see countless Rolex every time I go out in public.

As for the comment that a Rolex Submariner is not a status or wanna be status symbol, we'll just have to agree to disagree since every 30 year old, 30K a year millionaire owns one in the last three cities I have lived in.

[rpryan55]

Originally Posted by dman

Well, since you are aware what the nouveau riche are into, I assumed you had the pulse of some study. I can assume that you are of the camp that this Panerai/big watch fad will soon pass too? I actually hope it does, since none of the Rolex I had are worth over 3X it's list price only 4 years after it was made. That can only be a good thing for me if that bubble bursts. BTW/ people have been saying that is going to happen for years now, any guess on the actual date?

Fact for me is that I have been wearing Panerai almost exclusively for three years and have seen only a four or five in the wild in that time, two of those were hideous fakes at that. I see countless Rolex every time I go out in public.

As for the comment that a Rolex Submariner is not a status or wanna be status symbol, we'll just have to agree to disagree since every 30 year old, 30K a year millionaire owns one in the last three cities I have lived in.

Right you are. On all counts. I also wear a Panerai, but I've seen many more out in the wild (I guess it depends on your geographical location, because you are correct, they just don't make that many and their AD network is miniscule) where I live. I guess that accounts for the differing opinions here.

As for the Submariner being a status symbol, I DO think it is - I just think that the average guy out there doesn't recognize it as anything special. But my wife pointed out to me that in recent photo shoots, George Clooney is wearing what looks to be a Sub. So, to me, it's just a classic and great watch. But I don't think that many people out there would recognize it as something special - but they would see the Panerai, with its clock-like size, as a flashier watch. And if the thief followed what the rich are currently obsessing over, it would be Panerai before Rolex. Or am I wrong about that? At least where I am, and in the places I go, people with money are really into Panerai before Rolex. And that was my original point - Panerai doesn't "fly under the radar."

I see Rolex everywhere, too. But I'm a watchnut, so I recognize them for what they are. I guess we'll never really settle whether the non-watchnut public would recognize a SS Rolex for what it is. But thanks for an interesting point of view - and don't mistake my relatively worthless opinion for a slam against Rolex. After all, I own a Panerai, but I also own THREE Rolex.

[mailman]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

As for the Submariner being a status symbol, I DO think it is - I just think that the average guy out there doesn't recognize it as anything special. But my wife pointed out to me that in recent photo shoots, George Clooney is wearing what looks to be a Sub. So, to me, it's just a classic and great watch.

I agree and disagree. I think people would buy a DJ or Day Date for a status symbol before a Sub. There are people, myself included who know what a Sub is before they bought one. I mean the history of the watch itself, before Rolex became as popular as it is today. It's what got me into watches in general when I was 12.

I agree it's a classic and great watch. Like you, I think Panerai makes a great watch also.

[dman]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

Right you are. On all counts. I also wear a Panerai, but I've seen many more out in the wild (I guess it depends on your geographical location, because you are correct, they just don't make that many and their AD network is miniscule) where I live. I guess that accounts for the differing opinions here.

As for the Submariner being a status symbol, I DO think it is - I just think that the average guy out there doesn't recognize it as anything special. But my wife pointed out to me that in recent photo shoots, George Clooney is wearing what looks to be a Sub. So, to me, it's just a classic and great watch. But I don't think that many people out there would recognize it as something special - but they would see the Panerai, with its clock-like size, as a flashier watch. And if the thief followed what the rich are currently obsessing over, it would be Panerai before Rolex. Or am I wrong about that? At least where I am, and in the places I go, people with money are really into Panerai before Rolex. And that was my original point - Panerai doesn't "fly under the radar."

I see Rolex everywhere, too. But I'm a watchnut, so I recognize them for what they are. I guess we'll never really settle whether the non-watchnut public would recognize a SS Rolex for what it is. But thanks for an interesting point of view - and don't mistake my relatively worthless opinion for a slam against Rolex. After all, I own a Panerai, but I also own THREE Rolex.

Great post, great ideas and points.

Of all the forums I have seen, only this one can two people be on opposite sides of an argument and let each other speak.

And you are right, being watchnuts or watchnerds as I call it, LOL, is probably why we would notice what others don't.

[lac2s]

I have a 005 on order and will be coming in a week or two, if you like, I can sell you mine at list + shipping.

[sleedawg]

I actually picked up a 104. And a week later picked up a 111. Now, I'm thinking if I should flip the 104. I didn't even wear the 104 outdoors yet. I was told I probably wouldn't get the 111 or 5 before the April 1 price increase so I bought the 104. Figures I'd find two separate ADs that had a 111 before the price increase. Oh well. Thanks for the offer though.

[fmohajer]

Whats the likelihood of being able to trade a Corum coin watch (in MINT condition) for a PAM 104?

[Trurolexer]

Kevin, if I were you I will do that. Good luck!!!

[hflee55]

kevin, you need a panerai....go for it.

[mdtddd2007]

i say if you like the clean look and w/history pam 005 and look at the pam 000. both have logo on dial...good luck...

[TswaneNguni]

005 vs 104 .... why not both !!

I have a 104 and the first 111 and 005 the AD receives are both heading my way

Gotta love the ss Luminor case.The essence of Panerai !!