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Old 17 February 2008, 01:51 PM   #1
vman
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Major disappointment...

I got up at 6AM this morning to prepare myself for a trip to AD. Today was supposed to be the day. Unfortunately, after looking at Subs I came home empty handed. For some reason I did not expect Rolex to be what it was in terms of quality and looks when compared to other watches.

I looked at the inventory at Shreve and Co. located in San Francisco. First of all, the sales person was completely clueless. I asked her if there were any COSC Subs in stock and she said that only Sub dates had certification. When I tried to explain about the latest model that came in mid 2007, I lost her. Then I asked her for an LV, she did not know what it was. WTF? I have large wrists and the Subs looked tiny plus the bracelets were, well, not the ones that I would expect to find on fine watches. I compared this to Omega and to be honest with you I ran out of the store because I did not want to get an Omega instead of a Rollie. Seamaster just felt like a tool watch compared to a Sub. I did not want to make any spontaneous decisions and chose to stay away from any buys until I got home. Rolex is a fine watch, but it simply did not smile at me.


The only hope is a Sea Dweller. They did not have any in stock and I am going to check them out at another location. If SDs feel like Subs, then I'll end up getting something else... Here goes dream :(
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Old 17 February 2008, 01:54 PM   #2
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The most important thing is that you did what you really feel. If rolex watches don't smile at you it's ok there are so many other brands

Hope that you are going to be able to find a Sea Dweller
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Old 17 February 2008, 02:02 PM   #3
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Rolex is a fine watch, but it simply did not smile at me.
Quote:
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The most important thing is that you did what you really feel. If rolex watches don't smile at you it's ok there are so many other brands
Velitsko nailed it. If a Rolex doesn't do it for you, keep looking. You'll eventually find just what you had your heart set on.
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Old 17 February 2008, 02:15 PM   #4
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So you've never seen an Oyster bracelet before, not even in pictures? What were you expecting?

I like the overall construction of OMEGA bracelets, but their use of pins is cheap as well. The only bracelets on watches under $7K that are truly great are from JLC, IWC, and a few other companies.

As for the size of the SD, it's exactly the same size as the Sub, except thicker. The Sub is actually thicker than the Seamaster, which is only 1mm larger in diameter than a Sub. Overall, the Seamaster should seem about the same size as the Sub.

Your post is confusing.
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Old 17 February 2008, 02:21 PM   #5
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sub not good for you.

hope attached one is big enough.

keep searching. or try other brand . daytona should be ur choice becuase it is a big watch
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Old 17 February 2008, 02:24 PM   #6
vman
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So you've never seen an Oyster bracelet before, not even in pictures? What were you expecting?
I have seen it before, I just did not expect it to be so flimsy. This was the first time I got to see watches so close together (even went to Torneau to compare just one more time) and it was not something that I expected at all. To freaking flimsy, if you ask me. I love to go camping, hiking and be active and I am basically looking for a quality everyday watch (dress watches are another subject) that I can have for years and years and years. I love the design of the Sub, but to be honest with you the ruggedness was not there...

I am confused as you're :) I've always wanted to have a quality watch and Rolex was my first choice. Unfortunately, I do not want to spend $$$ so I can just have a dream that I no longer like. 45mm PO felt more stable and rugged on my hand, but I did not really want an Omega.
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Old 17 February 2008, 02:25 PM   #7
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If the Sub didn't do it for you, chances are the SD won't either. That's OK, at least you didn't make a 5K purchase that you were not sure of...that was smart. I saw some nice Tags at the same AD where I bought my LV from the other night. Omega Speedmaster is a fine watch too.
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Old 17 February 2008, 02:38 PM   #8
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Different strokes... I must admit some surprise at your characterization of the Sub as 'flimsy'. My first 14060 aways stuck me as a tank, if nothing else. The quality of workmanship and materials also struck me as impressive. The design is not overt but overall the watch imbued class and quality to me. Especially compared to previous and lesser brands.

Keep looking and I'm sure you'll find something to your liking. The SD is more robust than the Sub for sure. The bracelet, clasp aside, you'll find much the same. Find a SD and maybe it'll speak to you. Good luck...
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Old 17 February 2008, 02:41 PM   #9
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Coop is right. The SD is exactly the same as the Sub, with a few key exceptions. Quality is about the same.

OMEGAs are fine quality. Why do you not want an OMEGA, especially when a Seamaster goes for well under half the price of a Sub? The SMP bracelet, like most have mentioned, has one undesirable issue at this price point: push-pins instead of screws. Other than that, OMEGAs are generally comparable in case, movement, etc. quality with Rolex. Buy the watch, not just the name.
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Old 17 February 2008, 02:45 PM   #10
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The current sub bracelet has a flimsy....dare I say....cheap feeling to it, when compared to other fine swiss watches.

You should have tried the newer bracelets, such as the GMTIIc...I think you would have jumped all over it.
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Old 17 February 2008, 02:51 PM   #11
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About five years ago I had a very similar experience. I had always wanted a Roles and I got to a jeweler and tried one on at the same time I tried on and Omega SMP. I thought the SMP (mostly because fo the bracelet) just blew the Rolex away. Many watches since, I am convinced that Rolex, including the bracelet is the better watch (for me-which is the only thing that matters). IMHO if you wanted the Rolex to start, you will have one or many eventually and if you buy on the first time, you may save yourself some money.
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Old 17 February 2008, 03:06 PM   #12
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Vman, Rolex bracelets seem to be your objection rather than the watch itself. This basic design has proven itself for decades. But as others say, if it's not the right watch for you there will be something that works. Good luck in your search.
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Old 17 February 2008, 03:24 PM   #13
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vman - sorry to hear about your disappointing trip to the AD. Keep looking and good luck on finding the right watch for you.
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Old 17 February 2008, 03:48 PM   #14
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Check out the Breitlings vman..... A good buddy has a Super Avenger, and lives by it (Gotta be honest, I think it's pretty nice too).

Glad to hear you didn't buy an R though. Gotta get something that smiles at you friend.

Good luck in the hunt...
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Old 17 February 2008, 03:48 PM   #15
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If you're enamored with Rolex, but looking for a slightly more substantial case and bracelet, try the GMT-IIC.

Or, there are rampant rumors of an 85mm Sea-Dweller with an eleven pound bracelet coming this year at Basel.
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Old 17 February 2008, 03:54 PM   #16
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Shreve has a great selection and usually very knowledgeable sales people. Too bad you couldn't find the right watch and pull the trigger. Better luck to you.
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Old 17 February 2008, 04:08 PM   #17
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Vman,

May I humbly suggest you have a look at the Rolex GMT IIc. This is a larger case than any of the Submariner line, and certainly appears more substantial than a Sea Dweller, although it does sit flatter on the wrist AFAIK.

Good luck with your quest.

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Old 17 February 2008, 04:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
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The current sub bracelet has a flimsy....dare I say....cheap feeling to it, when compared to other fine swiss watches.

You should have tried the newer bracelets, such as the GMTIIc...I think you would have jumped all over it.
i agree, the normal oyster bracelet with the stamped sheet metal bracelet feels, sounds and looks flimsy. i have heard hundreds of complaints about this very subject and i don't like them myself. go back and try the gmt2c. the bracelet and clasp is that of a fine watch i promise you. the watch also looks good on a big wrist because of the new case design. i have 8 inch wrists and it looks ok on me. a sub almost looks like a mid size watch on me.
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Old 17 February 2008, 05:00 PM   #19
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...but I did not really want an Omega.
Nothing wrong with an Omega.... I've got one and love it..... Did you try on a GMT IIc? The new bracelet is much nicer.
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Old 17 February 2008, 05:18 PM   #20
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I have only one word to say - PANERAI.
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Old 17 February 2008, 05:30 PM   #21
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The bracelet, despite the appearance, is the standard of solidity. This bracelet can go through more than you can even imagine. I have a Seamaster Pro, and I do think that the bracelet on that watch seems more solid. But history tells us that the good old Oyster is the most solid guy around. And I must agree. Seeming is not always being. Form is not always content. The cover is not always the book. There is a big history here. The SD has the same Oyster bracelet as the other watches you are looking at. Calm down. It is only a watch. Get your Rollie and you will probably like it. If not, I do recommend the fabulous Omega bracelet. I do disagree that it is cheap or that the Rollie bracelet is cheap. If you want a $25,000 watch, with solid links, than go for that one. But I would wager that you could hang from a tree with the Oyster bracelet, and it would not break....
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Old 17 February 2008, 05:47 PM   #22
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i was also very disappointed with the sub bracelet the first time i picked it up. the SD felt better (and looked great). The new GMT II (c) has a great feel; nothing cheap or light feeling about it
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Old 17 February 2008, 06:15 PM   #23
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Good post, My only complaint with Omega, is the way they follow fashion trends and change the model range. If I spent £1500 for example on a 2531.80, only to find it now discontinued, that says to me, the company wnat to make a fast buck and really don't care about heritage, longievety ( I know, I've spelt it wrong) of models etc.

I have to say from ist hand experience, the Sub feels feeble after wearing an SD. IMO this model shouts Rolex quality. The bracelet is a little thicker, the edges of the bracelet are polished and give a little extra glint. I've never had or heard of an issue with the Rolex pressed steel buckle in quality or reliability. In fact I've now heard of three storys of the new GMT's buckle failing, whether through design or fault is yet to be determined.

Go SD my friend
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Old 17 February 2008, 06:35 PM   #24
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(...)I have to say from ist hand experience, the Sub feels feeble after wearing an SD. IMO this model shouts Rolex quality. The bracelet is a little thicker, the edges of the bracelet are polished and give a little extra glint. I've never had or heard of an issue with the Rolex pressed steel buckle in quality or reliability. In fact I've now heard of three storys of the new GMT's buckle failing, whether through design or fault is yet to be determined.

Go SD my friend
Exactly! The old-style Oyster bracelets are tested by time. The simple bent blade blades of sheet steel may seem "cheap", but they WORK tremendously well. The bracelets are VERY strong. Don't be deceived by its looks. It is a simple, yet ingenious design.

Same thing applies to the bezel of the Sub, SD and "old" GMT. Yes, a spring can break, but that's easily and fixed for a modest cost. If scratched, the Aluminium bezel insert can be exchanged for a new one for 51 $ plus a service charge.

The new ceramic bezel of the GMT IIc, however, is very, very expensive to exchange if it is damaged (over 700 £ / 1450 $!!). And the new Oyster bracelets may be beautiful and feel very sturdy with the solid centre links, but the construction of the clasp is WAY to complicated. So much can go wrong:

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Old 17 February 2008, 06:37 PM   #25
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Excellent post Bo, that is a very informative and well detailed diagram of the new clasp.

The diagram very much reminds me of an Engineering Graphics class that I took before where we used the AutoCAD program to come up with drawings like that.
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Old 17 February 2008, 06:43 PM   #26
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Why dont more people memtion Panerai here, Are they worth it?
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Old 17 February 2008, 06:46 PM   #27
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there's lotsa "oysters" in the sea.... if the sub didnt smile at you... i'm sure some of the others will...

have u tried on the gmt-c II or the daytona?

good luck on yr search! hope u find a suitable watch taht not only looks great but feels great....
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Old 17 February 2008, 07:10 PM   #28
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I owned an Omega Seamaster Professional when I bought my first Rolex (GMT II 16710) and can totally relate to you regarding the feel and 'perceived' sturdiness of the two bracelets. It's something you soon get over, 'timeless classic design' always seems to come up trumps. The common thread from the posts is that the Oyster bracelets do stand the test of time, and check out the grade of stainless used too! If the size and beef of the case concerns do try the GMT IIc and the SD though they are not massively different to the Sub. Daytona will sit more slim on the wrist and from my personal experience feels more 'dressy' than 'rugged', but then again, that's in my honest opinion.

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Old 17 February 2008, 07:18 PM   #29
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Good post, My only complaint with Omega, is the way they follow fashion trends and change the model range. If I spent £1500 for example on a 2531.80, only to find it now discontinued, that says to me, the company wnat to make a fast buck and really don't care about heritage, longievety ( I know, I've spelt it wrong) of models etc.
Well put. This is how I feel as well.

I like a company that is innovative, but I also value continuity and tradition.

OMEGA has only one watch that is constant, and it's the Speedmaster Pro. Ironically, it's the watch that they've changed the least but is still considered by many collectors to be its most desirable.

The Planet Ocean might be a hit now, but who knows what it'll look like, or what it'll be called in 5 years. Some people like to experience new things every few years, and that's their choice. I like to know that I'm not buying a trend that will be out of fashion in a few years.

Economically speaking though, one cannot blame OMEGA. It's not a company that can keep on making the same models and still expect them to sell yearly. Rolex can make the Submariner exactly as it is for another 20 years, and most of them will still sell.
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Old 17 February 2008, 07:21 PM   #30
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Your Porsche looks like it was parked in Como Park?

Sorry TRF, I meant to send as a PM to JaySS

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