Buying a Submariner from an individual - How to protect myself?

[rmaut]

Essentially, I'm buying a 2008 Submariner date from an individual, and I'm trying to cover my bases to make sure I don't end up with a fake. Thus far, the dude has offered to include a bill of sale along with a copy of his driver's license. He has also agreed to meet me at a Rolex dealer of my choice, but told me that the dealer won't authenticate the watch, as they mail them to Dallas headquarters to do that. I called several dealers, and every dealer told me exactly that (they said they can look over the exterior, but can't open it up). Is there anything you guys can think of that would further protect me in a situation like this? It comes with the box, papers, warranty card, etc. The guy said he can guarantee that it is genuine, functioning, and not stolen in the bill of sale. What has me on edge is the price....he's asking 2k, and I haven't seen any other Submariners going for less than 4. Thoughts?

[gettocard]

2K ???!!! The watch is a fake or it may be stolen or something. Buy the seller,not the watch. Who is this guy ?? What he does ? He can say whatever he want's but I would never trust a 2K Submariner.

[ally]

It looks like the seller is trying to be accomadating with what he is doing....


But I feel there is no such thing as a free dinner

[austinnh]

I can't imagine why he would sell it for 2k, when he can easily sell it for much more if it's genuine. He could practically walk into an AD and probably get more than 2k for it.

I'm sure you could find an independent watchmaker willing to open it up and authenticate the inside.

[rmaut]

He claims it was acquired from a bankruptcy suit. I am skeptical, but at the same time I feel that his willingness to authenticate it at a dealer and provide a bill of sale with his driver's license is indicative of a legitimate situation. I plan to have his driver's license verified at a police station to make sure it isn't a fake ID. Anything else you guys can think of?

[Cannop]

If it looks to good to be true ....... you know the rest!

Cannop

[oboshoe]

Originally Posted by rmaut

He claims it was acquired from a bankruptcy suit. I am skeptical, but at the same time I feel that his willingness to authenticate it at a dealer and provide a bill of sale with his driver's license is indicative of a legitimate situation. I plan to have his driver's license verified at a police station to make sure it isn't a fake ID. Anything else you guys can think of?

Ask him for the bankruptcy case number, or the name of the person who filed.

For about $5 (or less) you can verify the detail of the case and the watch would be a listed asset as well as the details of how it was disposed.

see www.pacer.gov

[padi56]

Originally Posted by rmaut

Essentially, I'm buying a 2008 Submariner date from an individual, and I'm trying to cover my bases to make sure I don't end up with a fake. Thus far, the dude has offered to include a bill of sale along with a copy of his driver's license. He has also agreed to meet me at a Rolex dealer of my choice, but told me that the dealer won't authenticate the watch, as they mail them to Dallas headquarters to do that. I called several dealers, and every dealer told me exactly that (they said they can look over the exterior, but can't open it up). Is there anything you guys can think of that would further protect me in a situation like this? It comes with the box, papers, warranty card, etc. The guy said he can guarantee that it is genuine, functioning, and not stolen in the bill of sale. What has me on edge is the price....he's asking 2k, and I haven't seen any other Submariners going for less than 4. Thoughts?

Well any good watchmaker could take the back off its not rocket science.And there is know mistaking a genuine Rolex movement.The box and papers mean little as they can be faked.But although the price seems to be very cheap,the good signs he is willing to meet at AD of your choice.I would get a home land line telephone number to match him with his home phone address.Ask for a utility bill to match to his resident home/phone address.If the serial on watch matches the papers/card thats another plus,but to be 100% get the back off.Most good high street watchmakers could do it and do the re-pressure test good luck.

[Steve260]

Hmmm.... Could be a legitimate Rolex. But if it is, why is the price so far below the going market prices for Submariners?

Would he perhaps agree to have it sent to a Rolex SC for authentication BEFORE you pay for the watch? That way, you can verify its' authenticity AND at least get some level of confidence that the watch isn't stolen?

[Gerardus]

2K I would walk away from this....

[EchoBlueUK]

I don't buy any from anyone other than ADs. Not worth the risk imho.

[tulsaokusa]

Originally Posted by EchoBlueUK

I don't buy any from anyone other than ADs. Not worth the risk imho.

[Submarino]

Do you have any pics of the watch? How did you come across this seller?

[Newportkrieger]

If you get burned, blame your greed as well as his dishonesty.

[R1@160@alltimes]

If you are not 100% comfortable than don't buy it.

[steven.veres]

[Richard.]

Just occasionally someone might sell something for far less than it's worth. When they do, unless they're a friend or relative doing you a favour, they are probably doing it through ignorance. This seller doesn't sound ignorant, in fact quite the opposite.

[rolexsubdate]

Most likely the watch has run-time issues. These are 'soft' issues that only become apparent when the watch is running for a while. These can include:

1) Watch keeping bad time .. running extremely fast or slow.
2) Date not flipping at the right time or at all.
3) Watch runs for a few mins and stops occassionally.
4) second hand abruptly stops
5) hour hand does not move at all
6) minute hands does not move at all.

So when you examine the watch or the watchmaker examines the watch, the static attributes all look good .. it is genuine rolex, serial #s match, no apparent damage -- you pull out the crown and all is good .. hands move good, date flips good ... all is good when manually done... and even the watchmaker or the biggest experts here will hand you the watch and say "go for it! great deal!! ... what a steal!!!" ..... but once you buy it and time starts ticking, then any of these issues will make itself apparent .... So now you need to send the watch for servicing to RSC ... that's an additional $500 your price goes upby....

Maybe, just maybe, there is nothing wrong with the watch .... it is just a steal ...
I see it on ebayt all the time with small price items. something that sells on th average for $100, someone has put a buy it now
for $50. I buy it and put it back on ebay and make a decent profit ... it happens
But the higher the average selling price of an item, the less likely is the huge price drop...

Better be cautious though....

[globalmedia33]

Well, if it's too good to be true... then it's probably is.!!! Walk away

[jimbones43]

Do yourself a favor. Do not buy this watch. Contact one of the many trusted sellers here. They will get u what u want albeit for a few more bucks!! But u will have peace of mind!

[jtwrace]

Contact "DavidSW" and be done with it.

[Frogman4me]

The old saying always applied to rolex watches. If it's too good to be true then It is.

[rolexsubdate]

or contact these 4 guys who can authenticate it ... ok 3... on the right....

[cht]

Dealers will not authenticate the watch.
There is no comfort in a seller agreeing to meet you there.

If you are not well versed in the watch and it's detail and are unable to authenticate it your self comfortably you are probably just the right person to get scammed IMO.

walk away, this is a no brainer.

[BT12]

Originally Posted by cht

Dealers will not authenticate the watch.
There is no comfort in a seller agreeing to meet you there.

If you are not well versed in the watch and it's detail and are unable to authenticate it your self comfortably you are probably just the right person to get scammed IMO.

walk away, this is a no brainer.

How do dealers give you a written appraisal if they cannot authenticate the watch?

[Brian J]

Originally Posted by BT12

How do dealers give you a written appraisal if they cannot authenticate the watch?

When I was shopping 2nd hand here in Minnesota I called around to dealers asking to verify authenticity and the 2 options I got were

A) they would a visiual inspection and tell me if they thought it was real but couldn't guarantee anything - cost $50

B)they could send it to a watch maker for a full appraisal where they would open the case, this would take a couple days - cost $75

[tictocChuck]

Walk, actually run away!....price is way below market...if it was legitimate, he could just step into ANY shop that buys used Rolex's and easily get $2000 anytime (and the shop could put it back on the market for at least double).....why go to all the trouble with you? Another consideration is the watch could be "borrowed" or a "gift" from someone {if you know what I mean ;-)}. The Rolex Submariner is one of the most counterfeited watches around. Try the gray market sellers with good reputations in this forum. Check also the Buyers/Sellers "Who's Who" ?!?! section to get a feel for who the good sellers are (you'll see their names often mentioned). Good Luck

Which reminds me of the cliche of the guy in a trench coat who whispers "Pssst...wanna buy a Rolex?" Ha!

Cheers

[sea-dweller]

The price at 2K sounds suspicious, since he can easily get upwards of 4K and likely more.
I would run (not, walk) away.

[rmaut]

I just called a jeweler who said they would take it apart, inspect the movement, and pressure test it. They said they would issue paperwork that verifies that it has been inspected and is authentic. They said the only base that isn't being covered is that it could be stolen. If I get the dude's driver's license validated by a police offer and on the bill of sale contract, are there any angles I could be missing?

[Rolexcess]

Originally Posted by rmaut

I just called a jeweler who said they would take it apart, inspect the movement, and pressure test it. They said they would issue paperwork that verifies that it has been inspected and is authentic. They said the only base that isn't being covered is that it could be stolen. If I get the dude's driver's license validated by a police offer and on the bill of sale contract, are there any angles I could be missing?

The "angle" you are missing is that if you show up with $2k in cash, you are going to get robbed, weather you are at an AD or not.

Do not do this; the scam will work like this: you will show up at the designated AD and he will not show up (he will be watching you). Once you leave, he will call you, apologize and then arrange for a quick meeting. If you show him cash - you are done.

If you insist on doing this deal, bring a certified bank check. DO NOT agree to cash... if it smells fishy, it usually is.