Datograph or FP Journe Centigraphe?

[FTE2014]

I recently had a very interesting & positive development in my career which I want to commemorate with a dream watch. I always dreamt of owning a Centigraphe. I also like the Datograph a lot.

I am interested in the WG dial FPJ, and I had the chance to physically see this watch on quite a few occasions, so I know what I am getting into. In terms of the Dato, I like the rose gold version, but my whole experience with the watch is limited to images on the internet or youtube recordings.

On the secondary market, both watches seem to trade within a very similar price range. Which one would you go for? Any advise in terms of long term maintenance, reliability etc?

[capote]

Since the FPJ is your dream watch I would go with that.

[ec00421]

Between the two above, Id go for fpj. But if its dato up/down with black dial, then it's a different story...

[DCheeta]

Dato for me. Not a fan of FPJ (I know, I know...sorry!).

But like ejsc421 said, make it a black up/down and you've got a sweet little number.

[PJ S]

FPJ makes some lovely looking watches, in their own distinctive style, but ever since I first laid eyes on photos of the Centigraphe, I’ve always thought it looks a complete dog’s dinner.

If you like something that’s different or a little bit quirky, then don’t shy away from Glashutte Original Panomatic Chronograph or Senator Rattrapante.

[FTE2014]

Originally Posted by PJ S

FPJ makes some lovely looking watches, in their own distinctive style, but ever since I first laid eyes on photos of the Centigraphe, I’ve always thought it looks a complete dog’s dinner.

If you like something that’s different or a little bit quirky, then don’t shy away from Glashutte Original Panomatic Chronograph or Senator Rattrapante.

It is interesting that you bring up Glashutte. Just last week I saw one of their regulator dial watches on a rose gold case and I really liked it.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by FTE2014

It is interesting that you bring up Glashutte. Just last week I saw one of their regulator dial watches on a rose gold case and I really liked it.

GO are very often overlooked on here, in favour of PP/ALS, which I don’t understand.
Sure, those pair often have a more highly decorated movement, but I’ve long grown out of mentally getting off on something you’ll rarely give a second’s thought to once you’ve had the watch for a while.
Still like a display case back, but more to make sure the balance wheel is still moving on two-handers, than studying for mirror polished edges.
As I’ve said before, at some point – sooner than later for some people – familiarity breeds contempt, as the phrase goes.

[AK797]

I'm not a fan of the screw plate design of the Journe, the RG Dato black dial would be my pick over the white, tho the Dufour is harder to find. Thickness too as Gus says, the mini-hamburger, it was once described by an esteemed member, so a must try on.

PJ's Glashutte Pano chrono is a good suggestion too.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by AK797

PJ's Glashutte Pano chrono is a good suggestion too.

Your cheque's in the post.

[KarlS]

I own 2 FPJ but in this case it has to be the Dato. The up down is the latest.

[lapince]

To be more objective you need to post also the datograph movement pic, but you must see it in real, amazing

[FTE2014]

Originally Posted by lapince

To be more objective you need to post also the datograph movement pic, but you must see it in real, amazing

Attachment 736688

Many thanks everyone,

I am yet to figure out how to use multi quote, so please bear with me :)

Lapince, you are definitely right, one had to show the movement on the datograph to make an informed decision At the same time I think, a pic of the Dato movement basically eliminates any competition :)

[N_Architect]

Tim,

I own the Dato (first version, 39mm case with the Roman numerals in the dial and no PR) in PT metal though.

I purchased it pre-owned a year ago and actually at the time the watch had just come serviced from ALS in Glashütte. I also have two friends who own the RG/black dial variant + PT variant.







Therefore few brief comments from my limited experience:

- The watch feels a tad heavy on the wrist (in my case it is because of the platinum of course). The RG version should be lighter, I guess. It also sits and feels a tad small, but actually the case size is very close to ideal. You do appreciate this feeling a while after wearing the watch.


Weight is 144gr, strap I use is the Lange XL version.

- The black dial is very beautiful. Because it is all made of sterling silver (which is anodized to become black), the hour/minute/second hands as well the hour markers stand out and can be seen very clearly as you happen to move/turn your wrist even for a fraction of an inch.

The good legibility of the black dial is enhanced by the large aperture date function. For those of us in their mid-40s with the eyesight going just slightly off every now and then, this is a plus.

- The PR complication (added few years back in the 'new' Dato) would also be a plus, the watch has a PR of abt 36hrs which is not much. I personally miss the PR indication in my PP 5712 and I would very much prefer something like a 70hr PR, but for having the ability to own and wear such a monumental horology piece like the Dato 39mm, these are imperfections one can perhaps live with.

- The watch keeps very good time but I would suggest it should be worn as much as possible. My brief experience with H.O. (two PPs, one AP, one ALS, one JLC) and discussions I have had with watchmakers tell me that these complicated watches are better worn than stay in the safe.

- The open back side is like a small complex city, and a beauty to watch. This is a movement which was designed and manufactured from the ground up, to fit in a case which was in turn specifically made to fit this movement. This watch changed history, as it was one of the main reasons which forced Patek to leave Lemania and develop their own in-house movement of similar calibre.

- I have heard service costs are to the level of $5k or thereabouts, although last time I mentioned it here a couple of fellow members suggested that (at least in North America) this value is less that that.

- The ALS strap is excellent, it is specifically designed and made for this watch (it is not a generic 20/18 strap which is also used in other less complicated ALS pieces). I have worn it for months in the humid and demanding weather environment of Singapore, and it performed considerably better that the PP and JLC straps I had in my other watches (5196J and Grande Reverso Moon handwound respectively).

Overall I'd say that the watch is a beauty to own and wear. If this will be your first ALS, I guarantee you that it will change a lot on your perception about ALS and the competition (namely PP).

Few words on the FPJ:

- I have not tried a Journe on my wrist yet. While F.P. is certainly a charismatic and highly creative watchmaker, I have heard stories that a few models do have issues (e.g. on a particular model simple date/astrology month/time piece the second complication gets stuck). These are not issues which cannot be rectified, but the overall impression I got from the discussions I have had all these years is that reliability of these watches is perhaps slightly inferior to brands like PP / ALS / JLC etc.

The point with such situations is that the watch has to be returned to FPJ in Switzerland. For sure if anything happens with the ALS this will also have to be returned to Glashütte, and waiting time is not short.

I have to be clear that I am not a watchmaker or dealer and whatever I say/write is taken from many discussions with watchmakers and dealers I have had in the last three years. Obviously whatever experiences I have had cannot reflect a brand's standing and reputation - I am sure there are many fellows out there wearing and enjoying their Journes. But you asked and having been in a similar position last year, I think it is reasonable to offer my views.

- Journe watches have flair and fantasy, and this is very important. Distinct engineering is equally prominent in Journe's creations. Resale value is another thing with FPJ, though, but this factor is of course equally subjective. You may want to keep the watch so issues like resale value are not pertinent.



Good luck with your choice!

[FTE2014]

Originally Posted by N_Architect

Tim,

I own the Dato (first version, 39mm case with the Roman numerals in the dial and no PR) in PT metal though.

I purchased it pre-owned a year ago and actually at the time the watch had just come serviced from ALS in Glashütte. I also have two friends who own the RG/black dial variant + PT variant.







Therefore few brief comments from my limited experience:

- The watch feels a tad heavy on the wrist (in my case it is because of the platinum of course). The RG version should be lighter, I guess. It also sits and feels a tad small, but actually the case size is very close to ideal. You do appreciate this feeling a while after wearing the watch.


Weight is 144gr, strap I use is the Lange XL version.

- The black dial is very beautiful. Because it is all made of sterling silver (which is anodized to become black), the hour/minute/second hands as well the hour markers stand out and can be seen very clearly as you happen to move/turn your wrist even for a fraction of an inch.

The good legibility of the black dial is enhanced by the large aperture date function. For those of us in their mid-40s with the eyesight going just slightly off every now and then, this is a plus.

- The PR complication (added few years back in the 'new' Dato) would also be a plus, the watch has a PR of abt 36hrs which is not much. I personally miss the PR indication in my PP 5712 and I would very much prefer something like a 70hr PR, but for having the ability to own and wear such a monumental horology piece like the Dato 39mm, these are imperfections one can perhaps live with.

- The watch keeps very good time but I would suggest it should be worn as much as possible. My brief experience with H.O. (two PPs, one AP, one ALS, one JLC) and discussions I have had with watchmakers tell me that these complicated watches are better worn than stay in the safe.

- The open back side is like a small complex city, and a beauty to watch. This is a movement which was designed and manufactured from the ground up, to fit in a case which was in turn specifically made to fit this movement. This watch changed history, as it was one of the main reasons which forced Patek to leave Lemania and develop their own in-house movement of similar calibre.

- I have heard service costs are to the level of $5k or thereabouts, although last time I mentioned it here a couple of fellow members suggested that (at least in North America) this value is less that that.

- The ALS strap is excellent, it is specifically designed and made for this watch (it is not a generic 20/18 strap which is also used in other less complicated ALS pieces). I have worn it for months in the humid and demanding weather environment of Singapore, and it performed considerably better that the PP and JLC straps I had in my other watches (5196J and Grande Reverso Moon handwound respectively).

Overall I'd say that the watch is a beauty to own and wear. If this will be your first ALS, I guarantee you that it will change a lot on your perception about ALS and the competition (namely PP).

Few words on the FPJ:

- I have not tried a Journe on my wrist yet. While F.P. is certainly a charismatic and highly creative watchmaker, I have heard stories that a few models do have issues (e.g. on a particular model simple date/astrology month/time piece the second complication gets stuck). These are not issues which cannot be rectified, but the overall impression I got from the discussions I have had all these years is that reliability of these watches is perhaps slightly inferior to brands like PP / ALS / JLC etc.

The point with such situations is that the watch has to be returned to FPJ in Switzerland. For sure if anything happens with the ALS this will also have to be returned to Glashütte, and waiting time is not short.

I have to be clear that I am not a watchmaker or dealer and whatever I say/write is taken from many discussions with watchmakers and dealers I have had in the last three years. Obviously whatever experiences I have had cannot reflect a brand's standing and reputation - I am sure there are many fellows out there wearing and enjoying their Journes. But you asked and having been in a similar position last year, I think it is reasonable to offer my views.

- Journe watches have flair and fantasy, and this is very important. Distinct engineering is equally prominent in Journe's creations. Resale value is another thing with FPJ, though, but this factor is of course equally subjective. You may want to keep the watch so issues like resale value are not pertinent.



Good luck with your choice!

Many thanks, this was really informative. Beautiful watch and amazing pictures!!!


It is very possible that the Dato (or alternatively the 1815 up and down ) will be my first high end chrono. I think it will also depend on the potential opportunities on the secondary market as well.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by FTE2014

Many thanks, this was really informative. Beautiful watch and amazing pictures!!!


It is very possible that the Dato (or alternatively the 1815 up and down ) will be my first high end chrono. I think it will also depend on the potential opportunities on the secondary market as well.

On chrono 24 the 39mm can be had in condition 1, for 35, 40k'euros, tonhave one of, ifnnot the best chrono in the world in PT, discontinued model, I say it is really worth it

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by lapince

On chrono 24 the 39mm can be had in condition 1, for 35, 40k'euros, tonhave one of, ifnnot the best chrono in the world in PT, discontinued model, I say it is really worth it

Might be pretty old!! Think I remember when I was looking that many were early 2000's

[capote]

Originally Posted by lapince

On chrono 24 the 39mm can be had in condition 1, for 35, 40k'euros, tonhave one of, ifnnot the best chrono in the world in PT, discontinued model, I say it is really worth it

The condition is self assessed AFAIK. Loads of crappy looking watches there with a "1"

[martinr]

Originally Posted by capote

The condition is self assessed AFAIK. Loads of crappy looking watches there with a "1"

Every time I've inquired about a watch on chrono 24 the seller always had the same reply, we just sold that one but I'd be happy to find another for you. Waste of time in my opinion.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by N_Architect

Tim,

I own the Dato (first version, 39mm case with the Roman numerals in the dial and no PR) in PT metal though.

I purchased it pre-owned a year ago and actually at the time the watch had just come serviced from ALS in Glashütte. I also have two friends who own the RG/black dial variant + PT variant.

Therefore few brief comments from my limited experience:

- The watch feels a tad heavy on the wrist (in my case it is because of the platinum of course). The RG version should be lighter, I guess. It also sits and feels a tad small, but actually the case size is very close to ideal. You do appreciate this feeling a while after wearing the watch.

Weight is 144gr, strap I use is the Lange XL version.

- The black dial is very beautiful. Because it is all made of sterling silver (which is anodized to become black), the hour/minute/second hands as well the hour markers stand out and can be seen very clearly as you happen to move/turn your wrist even for a fraction of an inch.

The good legibility of the black dial is enhanced by the large aperture date function. For those of us in their mid-40s with the eyesight going just slightly off every now and then, this is a plus.

- The PR complication (added few years back in the 'new' Dato) would also be a plus, the watch has a PR of abt 36hrs which is not much. I personally miss the PR indication in my PP 5712 and I would very much prefer something like a 70hr PR, but for having the ability to own and wear such a monumental horology piece like the Dato 39mm, these are imperfections one can perhaps live with.

- The watch keeps very good time but I would suggest it should be worn as much as possible. My brief experience with H.O. (two PPs, one AP, one ALS, one JLC) and discussions I have had with watchmakers tell me that these complicated watches are better worn than stay in the safe.

- The open back side is like a small complex city, and a beauty to watch. This is a movement which was designed and manufactured from the ground up, to fit in a case which was in turn specifically made to fit this movement. This watch changed history, as it was one of the main reasons which forced Patek to leave Lemania and develop their own in-house movement of similar calibre.

- I have heard service costs are to the level of $5k or thereabouts, although last time I mentioned it here a couple of fellow members suggested that (at least in North America) this value is less that that.

- The ALS strap is excellent, it is specifically designed and made for this watch (it is not a generic 20/18 strap which is also used in other less complicated ALS pieces). I have worn it for months in the humid and demanding weather environment of Singapore, and it performed considerably better that the PP and JLC straps I had in my other watches (5196J and Grande Reverso Moon handwound respectively).

Overall I'd say that the watch is a beauty to own and wear. If this will be your first ALS, I guarantee you that it will change a lot on your perception about ALS and the competition (namely PP).

Few words on the FPJ:

- I have not tried a Journe on my wrist yet. While F.P. is certainly a charismatic and highly creative watchmaker, I have heard stories that a few models do have issues (e.g. on a particular model simple date/astrology month/time piece the second complication gets stuck). These are not issues which cannot be rectified, but the overall impression I got from the discussions I have had all these years is that reliability of these watches is perhaps slightly inferior to brands like PP / ALS / JLC etc.

The point with such situations is that the watch has to be returned to FPJ in Switzerland. For sure if anything happens with the ALS this will also have to be returned to Glashütte, and waiting time is not short.

I have to be clear that I am not a watchmaker or dealer and whatever I say/write is taken from many discussions with watchmakers and dealers I have had in the last three years. Obviously whatever experiences I have had cannot reflect a brand's standing and reputation - I am sure there are many fellows out there wearing and enjoying their Journes. But you asked and having been in a similar position last year, I think it is reasonable to offer my views.

- Journe watches have flair and fantasy, and this is very important. Distinct engineering is equally prominent in Journe's creations. Resale value is another thing with FPJ, though, but this factor is of course equally subjective. You may want to keep the watch so issues like resale value are not pertinent.


Good luck with your choice!

great post





another point to consider is the FPJ will wear a bit slimmer than the ALS.


I believe in the case of the ALS its thickness should be experienced so it can be taken into account before the purchase decision.

[Israguard]

Aesthetically speaking... I like the ALS much more. I fear the very unique design of the FPJ may wear off.. But the ALS is forever.

Best of luck with your tough yet special choice.

[KarlS]

My wrist is 7.5 inches

[KarlS]

Slamdunk

[AK797]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Slamdunk

[lapince]

N Architect is totally right, and personally I prefer much more the original 39mm than the 41 with PR, it has way more charm and warmth than the other which IMO leaves me cold though it is very nice, my favorite is the perpetual, WG being in first place of these, and the dato 39, it is a watch I would buy, for the 41 I would surely choose another model formthat kind of money

[texex91]

Dato (in Plat)

[jschmidtdmd]

I recently added the Dato Platinum up/down. I love it. It's a really comfortable watch, that works for dress or casual.

JPS

[PJ S]

Before getting carried away and making it a one horse race, just bear in mind that GO are no slouches either when it comes to polishing and decorating movements.

I also have to draw attention to the ALS lugs, as per the photo above – hanging in mid-air like that, I’d have to seriously question who at L&S rubber stamped that ergonomic design element.


PanoGraph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3G1HcnpW44 – at 1:28

or if you want instant gratification…




Senator Rattrapante

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KympoW_G980




PanoMatic Chronograph

https://youtu.be/oD4_yNCPxgA?t=24s



Limited Edition blue model…

[locutus49]

Dato or PP 5170 or 5070 if you can find one.

[el1125]

Originally Posted by locutus49

Dato or PP 5170 or 5070 if you can find one.

We think alike ☝️👏

[tigerpac]

In pictures the ALS, on the wrist the FPJ